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Wings out of square...

Old 06-07-2008, 05:52 PM
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Default Wings out of square...

I'm trying to install the horizontal stab in my Dolphin. To line it up, the directions say it should be the same distance from the corner of the wing to the corner of the stab on either side. When doing this, I noticed that the holes pre-drilled for the nylon wing bolts are off by about 1/4", causing the wing to be out of square. Do I install the stab out of square, in line with the wings, or do I square the stab to the fuse?

Thanks.
Old 06-07-2008, 06:03 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

You need to go back and square up the wing. You can plug the wing holes with a dowel and re-drill the holes. Don't fly it with wing and/or stab not square with the fuse. It will cause trim and control problems.

Paul
Old 06-07-2008, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

Bolt the wing on and check the measurement from each wing tip to the very rear tip of the fuselage. Each side should be exactly the same or very close to it. If not then something was likely assembled wrong at the factory. Assuming that measurement is close, center your stab in the fuselage then measure from the tip of the stab to the tip of the wing on each side. Again, the measurements should be equal. It may take some effort to get everything adjusted so that the stab is centered in the fuselage and square with the wing. The stab should also be parallel with the wing when viewed from behind.

Take your time and get this right. It can mean the difference between a great flying plane and a plane that just flys OK.

I was going to do some quick drawings but something tells me a few people such as RCKen or Minnflyer already have some.
Old 06-07-2008, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

From wing tip to center rear of fuse: 38.5" on one side, 38" on the other. I don't really have the means to plug the holes, but I could maybe drill them larger and put in a bushing if they have one at Lowe's. That's if you guys definitely think it's worth it.

Thanks.
Old 06-07-2008, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

Your local Lowe's sells dowl and you will find it in several sizes. Plug the holes with the dowl and epoxy in then redrill the new holes. That 1/2 inch is quite A bit off. You can plug the holes in the wing mounting block or the wing block then drill new holes.
Old 06-07-2008, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

First re-measure. Make sure the wing is snug in it's saddle. and the bolts are snug. Measure again. Now loosen the bolts a bit and see if the wing will shift a little. Tignten them down again and re-measure. If you find that you can get the wing straight this way, put a fine mark on the fuse and the wing for an alingment reference.

Also, when measuring, make sure the hook on the tape measure, I am assuming that is what you are using, is snagging the fuselage at the same distance from the front. If you tail fins haven't been installed yet, the rear of the slot for the rudder should be a good refererence point. Snag this point wiht the tape measure and the measure to a sharp point on the wing. IE the aileron cutout, or a sharp break in the wing tip. sometihng solid,. Don't measure to an alieron. When you measure the other side move your snag point to the same point on the other side of the plane and measure to mirror image spot on the oppsite wing. I'm not sure what the wing span is, but on a 60" wing, if you are within 1/8 to 3/16", you are good. Expecially if there is a little slop in the wing holddown. A shorter wing needs to be tighter and a larger one can be a 1/4' or slightly more out without reall problems. 1/2" is pushing it. Althoug it is possible to get the wing off by that much with just a little slop in the holes.

As Greay Beard said, you don't want bushings as they will keep the same location as the existing hole. With the dowel, you can drill it off center just a bit to get things aligned up. There is anothe way though, and that is making a locating notch in the TE and gluing a guide to fit that notch in the fuselage. A 1/4" hole drilled centered on the TE, and drilling both the wing and the fuse at the same time, then gluing a short 1/4" dowel into the fuselage will locate the wing correctly not matter the slop in the screw holes. A triangle stock of hard wood would also work if if drilling isn't practical. Just cut you notch and then align the wood in the notch and marke the edges on the fuselage. Pull the covering off and glue the wood to the fuse. You want ot make sure you can lift the wing out without problems though. The notch shoudl be on or very near the CL of the wing. One last thing is to just make your marks from the earlier step perminate and take the care to lock the wing down exactly that same each time.

Lots of options, but make sure you work something out to get the wing to mount the same way each time and be straight to the fuselage.

If you decide to go with dowels and re-drill them, I'll suggest you plug both the wing and the saddle where the screws screw into. It is extreamly difficult to drill a hole through the tapered TE of the wing and hit the mounting holes already there. You want the screw head perpenduclar to the outside of the wing which means a 15degree angle into the saddle or more. If you can drill the tap drill hole through both at one time, then go back and drill the clearance hole in the wing, you would be better served. After the tap and clearance holes are dilled, Run the tap in and tap one side. Bolt it down and then tape the other. All the wile keeping your alignment marks straight. It sounds a lot harder than it is.

Don


Old 06-07-2008, 08:33 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

To plug the holes you can buy "hardwood" dowels at Lowes or Home Depot. Thet're not exactly hard, but harder than pine. You can use a drill or drill press to turn them to the exact size of the holes. If you can't get that to work for you, soak the holes with CA and drill them to the size of the dowel. I recommend epoxy with a little micro ballons to fill the spacing around the dowels. Gorilla glue will work well also.

Paul
Old 06-07-2008, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...


ORIGINAL: Campgems

If you decide to go with dowels and re-drill them, I'll suggest you plug both the wing and the saddle where the screws screw into. It is extreamly difficult to drill a hole through the tapered TE of the wing and hit the mounting holes already there.
This is a good point. It will be very difficult to get your new wing holes lined up with the existing blocks in the fuse. It would be much easier to plug, re-drill and tap the blocks (or use new blind nuts in the blocks).
Old 06-07-2008, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

Well, I started working on it before I read most of this, but...

I plugged the holes with 1/2" "hard" dowel. The piece is recessed in the wing, so there is about 1/8" clearance in the front edge, and 1/4" clearance on the back edge. Originally the holes were perpendicular to the fuse, not the wing, so they are still that way. I drilled out for the 1/2" dowel, then put the screws in the saddle and slid the wing over them. Then I marked where the center will be, then plugged the hole with the dowel and 1/2 hour epoxy. I'll start drilling with small bits until I get the hole right, then go with the 1/4" bit.

I don't have microballoons, nor did I know what they were before now, so I just used epoxy. The plugs are just short of 3/8" on the short side, and just over 1/2" on the long side. I used a lot of epoxy.

I can't believe how far off this was. It's such a nice plane, very well put together, except for this. Oh well, what can I expect for $99?
Old 06-07-2008, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

To eliminate the critical precision involved, just make some hardwood sleeves that the screw shanks slip into. Then just bolt them down to the existing mount blocks, without the wing. Now take the wing and completely hog out the original holes enough so that you can just lay it over the hardware you have stubbed out from the wing blocks.
At this point get everything lined up "just so" and mix up a slurry of epoxy and sawdust and work it into the voids between the wing and those sleeves. You can also just pack the voids with dry sawdust and saturate with thin CA. I almost forgot to mention that you want to prep the area with clear packing tape so you don't glue this mess to the fuselage. You also need the wing to have ample "meat" [balsa block] in the bolt areas for this idea to work.
To finish the job, back out the screws and trim the sleeves flush with the surface of the wing and if applicable, countersink the screw holes for countersunk screws.
Old 06-08-2008, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

Hey, thanks for the help guys, it came out GREAT!!! First drilled out 1/2" hole where the head of the nylon wing bolt is supposed to sit. Then I put the wing and nylon bolts in place, and marked where the center of the shaft lines up on the wing. Then plugged the holes w/ 1/2" hard dowel rod and 30min epoxied in place. Next day I filled all the gaps with sawdust and thin CA, and also made smooth with the surface of the wing with sawdust and more CA. Next I drilled, w/ a small drill bit, where the center mark I made was on the wing. Removing wing and checking accuracy, I went to next size up, again removed and checked. Did this about 5 times until I was really close, then went ahead w/ the 1/4 in bit. Looks great, and measuring from tip of wing to corner of rear of fuse, on both sides, is within 1/32 of an inch!

Again, thank you. I really appreciate all your help and this site.

GaRCfield
Old 06-08-2008, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

Ya just can't get better than that. Great job.

Don
Old 06-08-2008, 08:29 PM
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Default RE: Wings out of square...

Thanks Don

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