Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
07-24-2008, 10:27 AM
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Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
Instructor called and we decided to head out to the field last night and see if we could get in a few flights between the traveling Tstorms here in New England...
He said it wasnt to bad but it was the most wind I've flown in. last week it was dead calm, this week I was blowing all over the place...Of that might have just been me??? :-)
I took off on all my flights with no problem... I think straightening my front wheel helped. Also I had been told the plane would lift off on its own. This time I eased up to full throttle let it roll a bit and then gave it a little up elevator and it went well...previous liftoffs I think I left it on the ground to long and was bouncing all over the place??? TTpro .36 on a .25 size plane so I have plenty of power to pull it up..
It was interesting to see how the wind affected the plane. My nice gentle turns that I've been working didnt look to good last night!
The wind on the ground wasnt to bad but you could see how fast the clouds were moving up high. If I let the nose or wingtip get a little high the wind would take over and push me around...or I was having a bad night flying??? But I think it was the wind...It was good experience....
cant wait until next week!
Steve
He said it wasnt to bad but it was the most wind I've flown in. last week it was dead calm, this week I was blowing all over the place...Of that might have just been me??? :-)
I took off on all my flights with no problem... I think straightening my front wheel helped. Also I had been told the plane would lift off on its own. This time I eased up to full throttle let it roll a bit and then gave it a little up elevator and it went well...previous liftoffs I think I left it on the ground to long and was bouncing all over the place??? TTpro .36 on a .25 size plane so I have plenty of power to pull it up..
It was interesting to see how the wind affected the plane. My nice gentle turns that I've been working didnt look to good last night!
The wind on the ground wasnt to bad but you could see how fast the clouds were moving up high. If I let the nose or wingtip get a little high the wind would take over and push me around...or I was having a bad night flying??? But I think it was the wind...It was good experience....
cant wait until next week!
Steve
07-24-2008, 10:50 PM
#2
RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
Now that you've flown in the wind, although a new experience, it sounds like you learned some valuable lessons. While it's not as easy to fly in the wind (although there are some who live just south of me who have landing problems with out wind - hint hint Ken 
) as calm conditions, you'll be a much better pilot if you learn to fly in it. Lots of people will call it quits when the winds kick up to 10 mph. Here in Kansas 10 mph is a light breeze, and I routinely train students in 17 - 20 mph. If they don't want to learn to fly in that, they'll have very limited days to fly here.
Once the wind gets above 25 mph flying can become more work and not as much fun, so I generally call that my limit (but I have flown in higher winds than that). I've found I like 15 mph winds much better than 5 - 10 winds, or even dead calm.
After you've got some experience after solo, then you can appreciate the amount of fun you can have in the wind. Don't be afraid to fly in 15 mph winds, but do keep in mind the planes reactions in relation to the ground and how it will fly differently from no wind conditions.
Hogflyer
) as calm conditions, you'll be a much better pilot if you learn to fly in it. Lots of people will call it quits when the winds kick up to 10 mph. Here in Kansas 10 mph is a light breeze, and I routinely train students in 17 - 20 mph. If they don't want to learn to fly in that, they'll have very limited days to fly here.Once the wind gets above 25 mph flying can become more work and not as much fun, so I generally call that my limit (but I have flown in higher winds than that). I've found I like 15 mph winds much better than 5 - 10 winds, or even dead calm.
After you've got some experience after solo, then you can appreciate the amount of fun you can have in the wind. Don't be afraid to fly in 15 mph winds, but do keep in mind the planes reactions in relation to the ground and how it will fly differently from no wind conditions.
Hogflyer
07-25-2008, 01:13 PM
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RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
When I fly in a good stiff wind, I like feathering the throttle and elevator to slow the plane's ground speed. If you've got a 10-15mph wind moving across the wings, your ground speed can be zero!
It's cool to see a nitro plane just hanging there in the air, wings level, about 1/4 throttle, just kinda bubbling around in the exact same spot in the sky.
I've learned you have to be careful not to turn too sharp downwind in a high wind. She'll stall if your airspeed isn't well over wind speed. It's especially important on your downwind leg of landing. Not much altitude at that point.
Have fun with that little plane. I gotta get me a small glow powered. Maybe a 1/2A !!
It's cool to see a nitro plane just hanging there in the air, wings level, about 1/4 throttle, just kinda bubbling around in the exact same spot in the sky.
I've learned you have to be careful not to turn too sharp downwind in a high wind. She'll stall if your airspeed isn't well over wind speed. It's especially important on your downwind leg of landing. Not much altitude at that point.
Have fun with that little plane. I gotta get me a small glow powered. Maybe a 1/2A !!
07-25-2008, 03:16 PM
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RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
[[[ I've learned you have to be careful not to turn too sharp downwind in a high wind. She'll stall if your airspeed isn't well over wind speed. It's especially important on your downwind leg of landing. Not much altitude at that point. ]]]]
Ahhh I see, turn with a 15 mph wind and I loose 15 mph airspeed? Hadnt thought of that.. Maybe that was what I was experiencing. Like I said, 1st time flying in any wind...
Steve
07-25-2008, 04:37 PM
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RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
ORIGINAL: Popriv
[[[ I've learned you have to be careful not to turn too sharp downwind in a high wind. She'll stall if your airspeed isn't well over wind speed. It's especially important on your downwind leg of landing. Not much altitude at that point. ]]]]
Ahhh I see, turn with a 15 mph wind and I loose 15 mph airspeed? Hadnt thought of that.. Maybe that was what I was experiencing. Like I said, 1st time flying in any wind...
Steve
[[[ I've learned you have to be careful not to turn too sharp downwind in a high wind. She'll stall if your airspeed isn't well over wind speed. It's especially important on your downwind leg of landing. Not much altitude at that point. ]]]]
Ahhh I see, turn with a 15 mph wind and I loose 15 mph airspeed? Hadnt thought of that.. Maybe that was what I was experiencing. Like I said, 1st time flying in any wind...
Steve
07-25-2008, 04:51 PM
#7
RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
I was wrong earlier today, but with a lot of inertia you would loose airspeed.... 
And that will reduce the lift when turning downwind.
And that will reduce the lift when turning downwind.
07-25-2008, 05:14 PM
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RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
The air is a fluid medium. The model moves within it. If a model has an airspeed of 30mph flying downwind in a 15mph wind, the model has a 45mph groundspeed but the airspeed is still 30mph. If the model has an airspeed of 30mph and is flying into a 15mph wind, groundspeed is 15mph but the airspeed remains 30mph. So long as airspeed is sufficient, the model will keep flying. Groundspeed isn't relevant to thatgroundspeed is just how it appears to the pilot. The model can have a negative groundspeed and still be flying well above its stall speed.
Take a moment to visualize this. The model has a groundspeed on 45mph on a downwind leg, a groundspeed of 30mph on a crosswind leg, and a groundspeed of 15mph on an upwind leg. At no time has the model's airspeed been anything other than 30mph! It just appears very different to the person on the ground.
The real danger in flying in wind isn't maintaining apparent speed (ground speed) in turns or any such nonsense. It's maintaining sufficient airspeed at all times. People often pull the throttle back when on a downwind leg, because the model appears to be flying so fast. That's what gets people into trouble when they make a turn after a downwind legthey've reduced the model's airspeed because it looks to be moving so fast. Keep airspeed in mind rather than groundspeed, and you'll not have any problems.
Take a moment to visualize this. The model has a groundspeed on 45mph on a downwind leg, a groundspeed of 30mph on a crosswind leg, and a groundspeed of 15mph on an upwind leg. At no time has the model's airspeed been anything other than 30mph! It just appears very different to the person on the ground.
The real danger in flying in wind isn't maintaining apparent speed (ground speed) in turns or any such nonsense. It's maintaining sufficient airspeed at all times. People often pull the throttle back when on a downwind leg, because the model appears to be flying so fast. That's what gets people into trouble when they make a turn after a downwind legthey've reduced the model's airspeed because it looks to be moving so fast. Keep airspeed in mind rather than groundspeed, and you'll not have any problems.
07-26-2008, 04:04 AM
#9
RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
That is excactly the point made earlier, but in different words... 
Inertia relates to the ground and not the air. So when turning downwind the model has to accelerate in its frame of inertia in order to maintain a proper airspeed.
Inertia relates to the ground and not the air. So when turning downwind the model has to accelerate in its frame of inertia in order to maintain a proper airspeed.
07-26-2008, 04:22 AM
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RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
Inertia is really the wrong concept. It might be a language barrier, but a phrase such as "accelerate in its frame of inertia" has absolutely no meaning to me. Acceleration is a change to velocity, while inertia is a description of how an object does not change without a force applied to it. A model doesn't have any more or less inertia within the medium that surrounds it. The only way that could come into play is if the model hits the ground, but even then that's really a measure of kinetic energy rather than inertia. The kinetic energy is greater when flying with the wind, as the component speed of the wind is added to the speed of the model. Into the wind the kinetic energy is less, as you subtract the component speed of the wind from the speed of the model. That's just an overly complicated way of saying groundspeed.
What- -exactly- - are you trying to say when you talk about inertia?
What- -exactly- - are you trying to say when you talk about inertia?
07-26-2008, 04:47 AM
#11
RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
Inertia can be thought of as a resistance to change the speed of an object.
To change the kinetic energy you have to apply a force and that force is due to inertia...
And yes this is a more complicated way to talk about ground speed, but it is not incorrect as was suggested earlier. When turning downwind the model has to accelerate in order to keep a correct airspeed.
I think everyone is talking about the same thing here, except maybe for goirish who almost had 70 years without being wrong
To change the kinetic energy you have to apply a force and that force is due to inertia...
And yes this is a more complicated way to talk about ground speed, but it is not incorrect as was suggested earlier. When turning downwind the model has to accelerate in order to keep a correct airspeed.
I think everyone is talking about the same thing here, except maybe for goirish who almost had 70 years without being wrong
07-26-2008, 10:45 AM
#12
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RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
ORIGINAL: MikeL
The air is a fluid medium. The model moves within it. If a model has an airspeed of 30mph flying downwind in a 15mph wind, the model has a 45mph groundspeed but the airspeed is still 30mph. If the model has an airspeed of 30mph and is flying into a 15mph wind, groundspeed is 15mph but the airspeed remains 30mph. So long as airspeed is sufficient, the model will keep flying. Groundspeed isn't relevant to thatgroundspeed is just how it appears to the pilot. The model can have a negative groundspeed and still be flying well above its stall speed.
Take a moment to visualize this. The model has a groundspeed on 45mph on a downwind leg, a groundspeed of 30mph on a crosswind leg, and a groundspeed of 15mph on an upwind leg. At no time has the model's airspeed been anything other than 30mph! It just appears very different to the person on the ground.
The real danger in flying in wind isn't maintaining apparent speed (ground speed) in turns or any such nonsense. It's maintaining sufficient airspeed at all times. People often pull the throttle back when on a downwind leg, because the model appears to be flying so fast. That's what gets people into trouble when they make a turn after a downwind legthey've reduced the model's airspeed because it looks to be moving so fast. Keep airspeed in mind rather than groundspeed, and you'll not have any problems.
The air is a fluid medium. The model moves within it. If a model has an airspeed of 30mph flying downwind in a 15mph wind, the model has a 45mph groundspeed but the airspeed is still 30mph. If the model has an airspeed of 30mph and is flying into a 15mph wind, groundspeed is 15mph but the airspeed remains 30mph. So long as airspeed is sufficient, the model will keep flying. Groundspeed isn't relevant to thatgroundspeed is just how it appears to the pilot. The model can have a negative groundspeed and still be flying well above its stall speed.
Take a moment to visualize this. The model has a groundspeed on 45mph on a downwind leg, a groundspeed of 30mph on a crosswind leg, and a groundspeed of 15mph on an upwind leg. At no time has the model's airspeed been anything other than 30mph! It just appears very different to the person on the ground.
The real danger in flying in wind isn't maintaining apparent speed (ground speed) in turns or any such nonsense. It's maintaining sufficient airspeed at all times. People often pull the throttle back when on a downwind leg, because the model appears to be flying so fast. That's what gets people into trouble when they make a turn after a downwind legthey've reduced the model's airspeed because it looks to be moving so fast. Keep airspeed in mind rather than groundspeed, and you'll not have any problems.
I suppose in trying to say it in few words I wasn't clear.
07-26-2008, 10:47 AM
#13
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RE: Flights 17 - 20, between thunder clouds
ORIGINAL: goirish
I think you lose 15mph ground speed, not air speed. (I Think) However I was wrong once, I believe it was 1939.
I think you lose 15mph ground speed, not air speed. (I Think) However I was wrong once, I believe it was 1939.
