Spacemonkey71

This is truly unbelievable. My wife, son, and I drove to Chuckey, TN (outside of Greeneville, TN) to visit my father in law and his wife. When we arrived he started showing off his airplane (he's building a "real" airplane in his hanger, a beautiful 2 seater "kit" plane; he's a pilot). We started talking about RC planes and I was showing him my "red book" of flight notes, "fingertip facts", etc.... and on one of the pages, I had printed out a small b/w picture of a "Das Ugly Stik", pasted it to the page, and made a comment that THAT was the plane I really wanted because I LOVE the Ugly Stik's look, handling, and everything about it. It's just a "neat" plane [&:]

He got this BIG grin and said cryptically "Follow me"; we upstairs to his workshop. He didn't turn on the lights until I was near the top of the stairs, then he said "Look to your right" and flipped on the lights. The "THUMP!" of my jaw hitting the floor almost knocked my teeth loose >>> sitting RIGHT there was a pure balsa & plywood fuselage of a hand crafted, blueprint built (no ARF!!!!) of, you guessed it an ORIGINAL "Das Ugly Stik" !!!!! He built it about 10-15+ years ago and never got around to finishing it. The ONLY thing it needs is paint (or ultracote, monokote - the wing is covered with dope fabric with HAND SHAPED scalloped ailerons, already hinged it also needs an engine + electronics & a set of wheels!!!! He said, "If you can fit it in the car, it's yours"!!!!! I AM STUNNED STUPID !!!!!! [X(] [X(] [X(] It's PERFECTLY BUILT!!! (he's a very, VERY talented modeller; he's been building balsa craft since he was 10 years old and he's 70+ now so it's "museum" quality PERFECT! Even down to the washouts on the wing tips and the PERFECTLY scalloped and matched ailerons and elevator!)

This is NO kit plane, he built it ALL from blueprints and balsa sheets and just never got around to the final steps of painting it! It's a SOLID balsa+plywood fuselage (no fuselage "cutouts for covering" for "weight savings" and NO compromises in building whatsoever, even down to the elevator and rudder -both SOLID wood with hinged & pinned control surfaces (rudder, elevator, ailerons) - NO CA HINGES. This bird is SOLID!!!! It's BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!! [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]. IT'S PEFECT!!!!!!!!! [8D]

He built it to handle a .90 series engine, but I think it'll do JUST fine with a .60 (that was the "original blueprint spec), and maybe even a .45. Just to keep it "tame" while I'm learning it. Desipite the solid wood constructionn, it's still pretty light (maybe 7 lbs(?)) It's got a 64" wingspan, 43" fueselage, 12" zero dihedral fully symetrical wing fully chord (not including the 2" ailerons). The only part that needs to be "built" is a servo tray and mounting an "engine mount" clips/spinner/ and wheels. It's got a single servo central "bellcrank" setup for the ailerons, and while I'm not a big fan of this setup, since this plane has not really been totally finished and never flew/crashed, I think I'll have better luck than I did with the Senior Falcon >that bellcrank was SHOT to heck! (incidentally, he ALSO gave met THAT plane too!) > With the Falcon, I wound up cutting slots in the wings in-line with the control horns and mounting 1 servo per aileron wired with a Y connector to accurately control the surfaces (the bellcrank was totally UN-adjustable it was so old and ALL over the map when it came to ajusting it.....)

I can't believe this, it's just TOO much for even ME to believe! This is the SECOND handmade RC plane he's given me (the 1st was the Senor Falcon) along with a COMPLETE flight/field box, packed with chargers, spinners, batteries, tools, spare parts, and even a 7 channel Futaba FG series Tx + Rx with battery + 6 servos.

Then, almost as an encore, he hands me a dusty Great Planes Real Flight Simulator "controller box" and the disk! (granted the disk is from 1999, so I'm not sure of the "version") and it's got and "old style" serial joystick connector (the 16 pin "wide" connector) and my laptop doesnt' have this port, so I'm HOPING I can run it through an interface to make it connect through a USB. This is JUST UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!

All I need to do for the plane is figure out HOW to paint it (the type of paint + technique) and add the markings (the german crosses). I'm going with him tomorrow to a LHS to see what kind of paint I need to get to paint correctly on a dope fabric. It SHOULD make it stronger and more resilient to common "bumps" and pokes. He says it's a peice of cake (but then again, as I said, he's a MASTER model builder! so how hard it REALLY IS remains to bee seen As an example, he built a 100% accurate and perfect "The Spirit of St.Louis" in a 22" wingspan that's hanging from the ceiling in my son's room > I'm BOUND AND DETERMINED that this kid WILL be a pilot RC or "real", I don't care, as long as he shares his old man's unadulterated joy about planes! [sm=wink_smile.gif])

Anyways, with my newly recieved K&B .45 engine (which is in awesome condition, esp for $35!), and my "new" SkySport 4, complete with 4 high torque servos, Transmitter, Reciver (ch48), battery, on/off switch, and connecting cables; even the original manual! (yeah, it's old and discontinued, but for $40, I couldn't pass it up! I really only needed 4 servos, but 4 servos are more than $40!!!!), I'm in some sort of "daze" . The .45 is slated for the SkyBox Fly40; the servos and controller were too, but I'd rather put them into the Ugly Stik, just to get it flying after TOO LONG on the ground. This bird needs to FLY !!!!! But I may have to be realistic and I may just hang it from my ceiling for a while until I can rack up more "training" time on a "crashable craft" like the SkyBox that's been banged on more times than HUMANLY possible (it's almost "airplane abuse" what's been done to this poor thing! I've gotten it back together and it WILL fly again; it'll make a great "pracice plane" b/c if I crash it, it won't be the end of the world)

Well, now I'm up to PLANE NUMBER FOUR and I haven't even fully solo'd yet [sm=50_50.gif]. Could it BE possible that I'm getting ahead of myself, or am I just lucky to BE in this position and STOP THINKING OTHERWISE and just GRACIOUSLY accept the free planes ?

I'm in favor of the latter [sm=angel_smile.gif] I'm including some pictures of my "new baby". I still can't believe it!

(ps the stains on the wing's doped fabric are basically age/mold discoloration from sitting for 10-15 years without being painted; they're purely cosmetic and there are no "holes" eaten in the fabric or even weak spots; I'm telling you this thing is SOLID!

Hossfly

Sounds like you did have some Christmas time. Good fer ya'.

One note: If the model is pre-doped, be careful what paint you select. Actually I would suggest that you contact SIG or Brodak for the dope. CAUTION: If your father-in-law happened to use Aero Gloss dope on the model, almost NOTHING will go over AG. The exception, the model being long cured, some polyurethanes may work OK.

Sig dope is actually Randolph Aircraft Dope and very pricey.

Brodak (www.brodak.com) is also a derivative of Randolph, but a different formula. It is by far the best dope I have ever used and I have been doping for 65 years. If you are in a high humidity area (GA) then I suggest you also get some retarder. Retarder slows the drying and will assist you in obtaining a nice blush-free finish. It works like thinner, but prevents blush, the mean part of dope other than the smell.

A dope finish takes lots of time as your father-in-law is well aware but you simply cannot beat the feeling when you are at the field and get all the questions of "What did you cover it with."

Good luck, Man.

TZflyer

That is a truly beautiful aircraft Spacemonkey!

I have a Great Planes ARF copy of it (Big Stik 40) and it is my favourite plane. I have downloaded plans of an Ugly Stik and plan to scratch build one soon.
Have you ever flown a Stik? If not you are in for a treat. They land as easy as your trainer, refuse to misbehave in a stall and go exactly where you point them.
I have been reading up about the Vintage Pattern competitions they have in the USA and I am hoping to get something like that going here in South Africa some day. An original Stik will be perfect for that.

Good flying,
Ray

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

Are you saying you didn't know he had that sitting around? Wow, what an unbelievably lucky coincidence!

fly boy2

thats like me, i have 3 planes given to me, a spad 3 channel trainer, and vintage pattern plane and a stik 40, man i love this hobby and i havent even soloed yet, it just got my sim today

Spacemonkey71

Yeah Smithcreek, he ACTUALLY had this "laying around" ! WHY it didn't occur to him that I'd WANT this BEAUTIFUL handmade and PERFECTLY BUILT plane is beyond me! I just think it's "ordained by God" that the ONE plane that I want more than any other is one that he has already built, but never finished, and just had it "taking up space" in his workroom! It's absolutely incredible and really boggles the mind to thini

By the way, i was wrong about it being built 10-15 years ago >>>>> he actually built it in the LATE 1970's!!!! [X(] It's been sitting around in the condition shown in the photos for THIRTY YEARS!!!!!!!!! Now he's got me freaked out so much about all of the hard work he did on it and how it survived for all these years that I'm almost afraid to fly it because I'm scared I might crash it [:@] Wouldn't that just be HORRIBLE?!?!?! To have it sitting in basements, attics, or workrooms for the past 30 years and not getting a HINT of damage and then "I" get it and turn it into a lawn dart?!??!?!??!!! [:@]

Do you guys think I should put a .45, .60, or a .90 (all 2 stroke nitro) on it to fly it? The plane weights around 6-7 lbs without the electronics, battery, fuel, engine, or even wheels, so I'm not sure that even a big prop with a high pitch on a .45 would work (like an 11x10 -which is inside the "curve" for a .45-; it's going to have to be nylon to keep the mass of an 11" prop down, but the "10" pitch should really SLICE and pull some air!);

>>>> on the other hand, my Senior Falcon (which he also gave me) wieghs in at just over 9 lbs with the electro-gear and the engine (sans fuel) and it pulls like an OX with a wood 11x8.... If I put a .60 on it, I'd have to either go with a wooden 11x8 (I have 4 of them and I like the way they move & look) or a wooden 12x6 to keep the speed down, but still have some power and "authority" without having it get TOO fast on me.

>>>>> I don't own a .90 (and don't see a time in the near future when I "could" get one either....) just out of curiosity, what's a decent quality -not GREAT quality, just "decent"- .90 size 2 stroke engine? I know NOTHING about 2 strokes past the .60's..... I know a .90 will THROW that sucker through the air, but I don't want it to get away from me at the speed of sound and wind up with a "racer" plane that's WAY too fast and powerful for my abilities..... []

I do know 2 things right now (1) it's a beautiful plane that's going to look even better when it's fully decked out in German Red with Maltese Crosses and (2) I'm BEYOND lucky and don't want to "waste" a hand made plane due to GROSS incompetance!!!! (3) I can hardly wait

(here's a couple of pics of his "real" plane -> you can obviously see he, how shall I put this.. "good with details" that's why the build of the Sr Falcon and the Stik is so danged PERFECT!)

brett65

My Feedback: (18)

Do you know what kind of plane it is, looks like it has quite a bit of elevator. I recently went out to get the sails for my dad's new but used 26 foot sailboat from the guy he got it from, and they were at his hangar. He had a nice '74 Beechcraft Bonanza. He let me check out the whole thing too.

Bob Mitchell

Does he still fly models?

If so why don't you invite him to maiden the plane when you're finished with it?

If not, then you might want to invite him to the maiden flight so he can see it fly for the first time. Either would be a nice gesture. It's always good to stay on your father-in-law's "good side".

Good luck with it.

Spacemonkey71

The plane he's building is an RV-9A http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-9int.htm he's building a 2 seater, "side-by-side" model. His neighbor has completed one(with front-to-back seating). Including my father-in-law's RV-9A, there will be FOUR "RV-9" series planes at that particular field. One of the guys at the field/housing community with one that is MAXIMUM built and flies passenger jets for a living now, but is a former Airforce Aerobatics Instructor..... the other day he was making passes about 15'-20' off the runway at 250mph (i heard him over the radio confirm the speed) and then pull it almost STRAIGHT UP to 400-500 ft -> he says he pulls between 6-8g's "typically" when he's just "messing around", but when he's "serious" he'll push it to ~9... [X(] He then flicks it into a BEAUTY of an Immelman, just like he was going around the corner to pick up some milk It's one thing to see it in an RC, it's another ENTIRE thing to see it when there's a PERSON INSIDE

Now that I'm home from TN, I've been doing some measuring of the new Ugly Stik; it's got a 60"ws and a 46" length (tip of the nose to the tip of the rudder). According to Great Planes, using THEIR sizes, this would put it in the .40 size range. Doc was planning on putting a .90 on this thing! He thinks a .60 is about right and probably the "smallest" he'd go. What are your thoughts on this? Just remember that the ENTIRE fuselage, hoizontal and vert stab are ALL SOLID THICK balsa sheets (no "skeleton" cutouts or anything, this sucker is SOLID!). The wing is covered with.... (nope, not tissue!)..... with "silron"! It's a silk+rayon material that hasn't been around for a while and IF you happen to run across some, it's worth it's weight in GOLD! Plenty of vintage model aircraft builders will give up a kidney for a roll of this stuff. Like I said, my Ugly Stik was built from blueprints about 30 years ago -i've got the original prints, so I have to be VERY VERY CAREFUL with it -> if I crash it I'm HOSED! because I have NO clue how to fix this thing [:@] much less what to use because "silron" has been gone for OVER 20 years! Do you guys think I should go with a .60 size or try a smaller .45 I have with a higher pitch prop? I'm leaning towards A .60 with a low pitch prop (11x6)strictly because of the weight of the completed plane and if I WANT it to SCREAM through the air, I can always increase the pitch (to 11x10) and it IS made to be a semi-aerobatic plane..... hmmmm..... [8D]

Doc doesn't fly RC anymore and hasn't in at least 25+ years (the engine I took out of the Hirobo Shuttle I got from him was discontinued in 1982! [X(] ). And he wasn't a very good pilot when he DID fly either That's why the Senior Falcon is on it's THIRD wing. I know Doc, and he can fix darned near ANYTHING, so that means that he SMASHED this plane's wing SO BADLY that it was UTTERLY DESTROYED to the point of completely "unsalvageable" replacement - TWICE!!!!! [:@] and that's a gigantic "WOW!!!!" revelation to me! He'll see the Falcon AND the Stik fly! I promised him that!!!

It's going to take some work to finish the Stik, I'm going to have to put 2 layers of clear dope on the wing, THEN 3-4 coats of RED and WHITE dope paint. Then 1 more coat of clear to seal the paint + decals. That takes care of the wing.... The body on the other hand is going to take a little more work.... First 2-3 layers of clear dope on the balsa, then ultra fine sandpaper to smooth it down, THEN I need to put 1 layer of tissue over it and clear dope that down. Then sand again. Then 2-3 more coats of clear (the idea is to "fill in" all the little holes, grooves, and grains of the balsa and make the surface GLASS smooth). Then 2-3 layers of RED and WHITE dope paint, then decals. Then 2-3 more coats of clear to seal it all down. Between 10 and 13 layers of dope and paint combined!!! [X(] Oh, then of course, I have to put in a servo tray, battery holder, kill switch, install control horns on the rudder, elevator, and ailerons, attach the wheels, etc.... there's a few more than a "few" hours to be spent on it Btw, does ANYONE know where I can buy "maltese cross" decals for this?

I know this sounds INSANE - I thought so too when Doc was telling me all this - but then I started looking at the Falcon's fuselage. It LOOKS LIKE FIBERGLASS it's so smooth and glossy! It's VERY, VERY impressive to see up close so I can see WHY all the clear dope needs to go on. The shine/luster is really one-of-a-kind and dang sure doesn't look like ANYTHING you see in even the best of the ARF's! All those layers also have the bonus of adding strength to the balsa framework so busting it up shouldn't be as easy (i'm emphasizing "shouldn't" very heavily....) It could also explain why the Falcon weighs in at between 9.5-10 lbs (without fuel!) too!!!

There's already a few small holes punched in the silron that I'm not sure how to patch.... I think I may just use small pieces of tissue to cover them with the clear dope. (they're very, very small holes; the material is OLD - so old that it's actually yellowed in some parts, but it's not brittle, THANK GOD! just a little "splotchy" looking...)

Like I said, it's going to take some WORK to get this bird flying! BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT !!!!!!!!!!! I'll have a hand-made, one-of-a-kind "Jensen" blueprints "Das Ugly Stik", (labeled: "designed by Phil Kraft, plans by George Walker"). It might "resemble" the GP Ugly Stik, but it's going to look SOOOO much different because of it's finish (WAY different from GP's Monokote) that it'll be truly unique Of course if I crash it, I'll kill myself......

carrellh

I do not think you will be at all happy with a 45 on the Stick.

I have the GP Big Stik 60 with OS 91 four stroke. It weighs about 7.5 pounds. The plane has excellent performance but is definitely NOT overpowered.

Since you wrote that you already have a 60 size two stroke, that's what I think you should use. I have an ASP 61 two stroke on an Uproar 60, which weighs over 7 pounds, and it performs well using a 12x6 prop.


Maltese cross decals
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZ827&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZ833&P=0

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

SWEET!!
Cover it nice and pretty and go with at least a good quality 60. Underpowered wouldn't be respectful IMHO. That is a classy classic!

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Good score Monkey Man!!!! I can't tell from the photos but is the fuse glassed or did he dope it??

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Cool story
If you want 2 stroke go with an OS 61, cheap,reliable powerful,and probably enough weight for correct CG, or a 91 OS /Saito four stroke.Dont cheap out on the engine and splinter this classic.

Spacemonkey71

carrellh, I think you're right. Because of all the dope that's going to be put on it to give it a REALLY nice gloss, a .45 even with a 11x8 prop is going to really underpower it badly b/c of it's weight. I've got an OS .60 that will fit well on it and I KNOW it will pull it through the air VERY well (my Sr. Falcon runs a .61, 11x8 and it weighs 9.5-10 lbs w/o fuel!). And thanks for the links to the Decals! VERY COOL!!!! I'll have to check the blueprints to find out what sizes I need.

Gray, The fuse + tail is, at the moment, straight, naked balsa planks; no "skeleton cutouts" or anything. It's SOLID balsa! Just sanded alot, that's all. And it's been sitting for THIRTY YEARS!

The wing has a "Silron" skin that's drum tight (silron is an OLD fabric material made by Royal about 20+ years ago that's a mix of silk + rayon). I almost WISH it was fiberglassed! I've worked with Fiberglass before, but Silron is a REALLY different beastie all together! And using dope is DANGEROUS! All of it is LETHAL and a Carcinogen, which means working outdoors is MANDATORY

The entire plane will have 10-13 coats of Sig LiteCoat butyl clear dope + 2-4 layers of Red and White glossy Sig dope paint (with 2-3 more coats of clear on top of that). The body will have a layer of tissue on it after 3-4 coats of "clear") followed by fine sanding, followed by more clear, then paint (red + white) + decals; then 2-3 more coats of "clear"

All of the clear dope will give it a really glossy luster (and add weight to it). I expect that after all the coatings, engine, servos, batteries, wheels etc.... it's going to weigh in aroung 8-9 lbs. I'm a little scared to put a 12" prop on it, I don't think it's got enough ground clearance to keep me from banging a prop on landing.... I'll probably start with an 11x7/11x8 and then if I need more, I'll go with an 11x10.

My Senior Falcon has had this same technique done to it (solid balsa with layer upon layer of clear dope + paint) and it's really glossy and looks really nice. It's just going to take some real work to make it look good. BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT!!!!!!

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Royal Silron, Sig Silray and Aristocraft Silray worth a fortune huh, Naw I don't need no Kidney especially a used one!

On the question of engines. a 45/6 would be a mistake. Most modern *****ie .61's have far more power than this airplane was designed for but would make it fly quite well so that would be my first choice. You said you have an OS 60, If you are talking about and OS 60FP then that would be typical power that was then used when most sixties were loop scavanged engines.

John

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Anf for those that have never looked at Johns shop it looks like he has been buying out hobby shops for years and years then just stock piling all the really good stuff for himself. The man has some very nice stuff hanging on his walls!!!

TedMo

Hey Monkey: Just reading your post on the Stik you got. I can appreciate your desire to finish it up beautifully but if you put that much dope(especially colored) it will way a ton. Then maybe your best bet is to just preserve it as a momento. Not meaning to denegrate you in any way but it is just an Ugly Stik. I have had several of them including one I just recently got that's an electric version. They're special in a way but there far more planes that fly far better. By the way just so you know I have some knowledge of silk and dope finishes.Ive been in this hobby when that was the only way it was done. Even before that we used to use bamboo paper and dope They are unbeatable but with the number of coats you intend to put on It will add lots of weight. By the way when dopeing the first coat or 2 go on thick by brush, therafter they are thinned and lightly sanded between each coat. Colors are best sprayed on. Yes definitly use the 60 for power is my opinion. Or as said before hang it up to admire.

Spacemonkey71

Well TedMo, I appreciate the advice and I know there are plenty of planes that are better than an old Das Ugly Stik; but this one was hand made by my father-in-law, 30 years ago, and has been just WAITING to fly all these years. It makes it a special kind of "mission" to get this plane in the air for me. Kind of a "quest" issue I know the dope + dope paint is going to add alot of weight. The 1st plane he gave me is a Senior Falcon, 1970's era. It's also a solid balsa construction with 10-12 coats of dope, paper, and dope paint on it. Granted, by buddy calls it "the Lead Sled" because it DOES weigh in pretty high! (between 9.5-10 lbs), but it's beautiful and VERY SOLID , but a Webra 10ccm (.61ci) w/ 11x8 pulls it through the air with NO problems at all. It's around 1.5x the weight of my Tower 60 (at 6 lbs) and 2x the weight of the little SkyBox Fly40 (at 5 lbs) I have. I'm not worried about the weight (right now it weighs 3 lbs; after the servos, engine, battery, fuel tank, wheels, and dope coats, I'm expecting it to weigh in around 9 lbs - that's REALLY not that heavy on a plane with such a wide chord and huge washouts); it may fly a little "dense", but its control surfaces have some "authority" to them to put it mildly >> the elevator and rudder on those Stiks are HUGE! and the ailerons are 2.5" wide each. It WILL fly, come hell-or-highwater, it's just going to take ALOT of work and ALOT of smelly goey dope.

I promised him when he gave it to me that it WOULD fly; given the fact that he GAVE me this beauty and he HAND CRAFTED IT straight from blueprints; cutting and shaping EVERY part of it (you should see the PERFECT shape of the wing! The washouts are PERFECT, it's solid as a rock, and even the Silron is still tight as a drum - literally!), it would be a crying shame, and almost disrespectful to him to "museum" this craft. It might take a little while to get it done, but it WILL fly

in the words of an airforce general when asked about the, then new, F4-Phantom, "The F4 is living proof, that if you strap enough engines to a brick, it too can fly"

Also, I'm flat broke, so ANY plane I get, I HAVE to fly! I, unfortunately, don't have the luxury of going out and buying even a cheap ARF, so free plane = FREE PLANE and that means FREE FLYING! My "hand made" planes may weigh a ton, but they're one of a kind, and they fly (or will fly), and I like them ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more than my Tower 60 and the SkyBox Fly40 (or for that matter MANY ARF's I've seen; even the GP Big Stik). The hand made ones are more durable, more attractive, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, they were FREE