Alex7403

Half of my landings are nice and half are noisy from wing on concrete…
The airplanes are Sig midstar and four stars

Review of my landings,

I’m bringing the airplane to approach for landing at 20-30 feet high.

Then at low speed from the last turn the nose is falling like 30 degrees towards the runway.

I catch it with full elevator, level it at 2-3 feet high and then it just stalls and falls on the runway.

my mistakes:
• Excessive work with the elevator, but I need to level it sooner then later and save it from hitting the nose on the runway.
• I’m being to slow before the dive on the runway
• Somebody suggested that I just fly slow over the runway and kill the speed instead of approach for landing

Today we lowered rates on the elevator to 80% and I landed nicely.

Either way I’m tiered of changing props and bending in my aluminum landing gear.

Question: what should i do to make landings smooth?

Thanks
Alex

Hossfly

Alex, first I think you may have a wrong impression of how to fly approaches. Not being nasty, just factual.

In aviation, RC or Rider-Scale, one learns to fly around the sky fairly easily. One learns to takeoff fairly easily BUT spends the rest of their life learning to land.

Where are you in relation touchdown point? Sounds good if the model is about 100 feet from touchdown point. If more, too low, if less, too high. Adjustments will be needed and that is not just elevator.
Number of things here. Not holding the nose up enough in the turn, inadequate power to keep machine in proper attitude, releasing all back-pressure on elevator stick at a low airspeed when trimmed for higher airspeed, and all sorts of combinations thereof.
Yep it's an airplane all right. Throughout the flight, during maneuvering and changing airspeed, a pilot has to hold various control pressures to hold attitudes. In a jet fighter, you have a trim button on the stick. Ain't there on a RC thingy!!!
Full-up elevator slows your model and when it recovers, it stalls and falls off on a wing or straight in. You must coordinate your elevator movement to maintain an attitude that maintains the proper airspeed. You use the throttle to maintain the altitude during the maneuvers you need to make to get the machine where you want it.
Short bursts of power WITHOUT SEEING A CHANGE will assist you in this altitude control. Holding the attitude (for airspeed) with elevator means holding some pressure. Letting the stick always go back to center crashes a lot of airplanes.
Practice proper approach procedures and hang in there. Maybe get a good ground school briefing from an accomplished pilot. Learn the basics.

You said 4*40s. This airplane prefers low pitch props for good landings. High pitch props keep it too fast, especially if flying with today's 40-46 engines. like 11-5 for a .40. Low pitch makes landings easier. High pitch tends tomake slowing down more difficult.

Use of rudder rather than aileron during the round-out and final landing helps keep wings level.

A burst of power when low works better than elevator to restore a glide path. Several short bursts are better than one where you see the chang. That will get you behind the model's position. If too high reduce power and let it come down, Before elevator bring power up a bit to restore glide path and attitude, then adjust as needed.
During roundout be very gentle and hold that nose up with increasing back pressure to stop the sink just prior to touchdown. Let 'er slowly sink in.
FLY the machine from start of first roll until engine is stopped and aircraft has stopped.

YUKONFLYR

Alex - Good approaches usually yeild good landings. If an approach is not working for you, there is no shame in a full power go around..........then try again.

I start my landing prep on the downwind at about 150 feet of altitude by chopping power. Then I regulate where I am going to land by extending my downwind or shortening it depending on local conditions. If an approach is not working for me I power up and give it another try.

Usually my landings are without additional power. Just elevator work, however do not overlook use of the throttle to regulate decent. If you get too slow and nose high and your sink rate is high, its time to add power. If you are nose low you can bring it up level and let your speed bleed off. Don't try to force it to land, if you float down the runway out of your comfort zone for a landing, then go around and either cut your power sooner or go longer on your downwind prior to turning base to final.

Best advice, stock up on props and don't give up

Richard

F-15J_JSDF

I am also new to this, at the mometn I am playing on the G4 and some of my landings are smooth and some are crash and burn, but the information that has just been given I will try on the G4 to smooth out my landings before I place a plane in the air.

Warnberg

My Feedback: (1)

Not sure this will help you or not because I am still learning myself, however I apply the same principals I learned in a real plane to flying an RC plane, use power to adjust altitude not just pitch, more power = increase in altitude... It sounds to me like the plane is stalling and you are attempting to recover using just pitch (nose down), then when the airspeed is too low you are getting a tip stall.

Try this next time, line up your approach and keep the wings level, then power down and let the plane settle keeping the nose at about the same pitch, if the plane is sinking too fast power up a little, not fast enough power all the way to idle. If you have across wind use the rudder to adjust crab to stay lined up with the runway... then just let the plane settle to the runway, powering all the way off just before touchdown if you are not already there.

Good luck

bassmanh

My Feedback: (5)

alex,

one othe thing you might want to check is your CG, if the nose of the plane is dropping like that when you lower the speed of the plane it sounds like it might be a bit to nose heavy.

just something to think about. remember the MGF suggested CG is just a suggested cg/starting point i dont have either of those planes but from what i have seen and heard is the 4* is a floater.

hope this helps.





bassman

da Rock

Another thing to try........................

When you bring the throttle down on approach, bring it down to where you normally do and then give it 2 or 3 clicks back up.

Two or 3 clicks of throttle at low motor will not actually do a lot but is usually exactly enough power to keep the airplane flying. And from your detailed description, a bit more power could help greatly.

The other suggestion is to watch the airplane's attitude much more closely. You're stalling the plane twice in your detailed description. Stalls are caused by AOA. Where they happen seem to be predictable. So you know where you need to pay more attention to the AOA and where to NOT let the nose up as much as it repeatedly is. You're seeing the airplane's AOA and not responding correctly. It's stalling because it's nose is too high. Don't allow that to happen. Remember what the pitch attitude of the plane looks like from where you are flying it when it repeatedly drops into a stall, and next time, don't let it look like that.

It might not look to you like the nose is too high, but the airplane is absolutely the best judge. And the airplane stall is telling you that for sure, the nose is too high.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Sounds like the main problem is your approach. Absorb what others have posted here, some good advice, and then practice flying approaches that have a constant and shallow decent and a slow speed, but a speed safely above stall. (If you don’t have a good idea of your stall speed, get up high, throttle back, and stall the plane so you know how slow the plane looks right before it stalls.) Practice approaches with say no more than 5 degrees of decent. This is about a 10 foot drop for every 100 feet you travel. (As you become better, you can work on more aggressive approaches, but for now work on controlled flight with a slight decent as I think lack of approach control this is the source of most of your landing issues.) Just keep flying the landing pattern this way. If you misjudged and are too high or too fast, don’t dive at the runway. Just fly down the runway, power up, learn how that “too hot/high” approach looked and try again. Obviously if you are getting too slow or low, power up.

Alex7403

Thanks guys,
It answers my questions I just need to process and practice it.
I do the 1-2 clicks on the throttle, it’s just the sudden wind gusts that kick it up in the air again and I’m fighting with it.

Thanks
Alex

carrellh

If you're in a club, ask an instructor to stand with you and talk you down a few times.

Alex7403

It’s the emergency landings that I fight with because of some big jet in the air, otherwise I’m doing sometimes so many go over until I get it straight.
But yes all of the answers above I’m familiar with and thought it thru just to do.....

Thanks
Alex

frenchie79

Alex, All these posts are correct and i second practicing approuch, it IS all about that. Practice flybys at 10 to 15 feet gradually slowing plane on each pass, not to the point of stall, find that speed which it will maintain flight. Make your approach from farther out, then fly it in at that predetermined speed,when over the runway at 5+ feet cut throttle a click or two and slowly add elevator as it decends.
I love to practice landings with my 4*40 & Mid star, thats all i use them planes for. After 20,30, 50 landings you can actually start landing with a little power for those nice two wheel landings and short runout or touch and go.
Practice makes perfect-let us know how it goes.

hogflyer

Alex,

One thing a lot of pilots don’t practice enough of after they solo and start boring holes in the sky is landings. When I go out I like to spend at least part a flight if not a whole flight shooting landings. I’m taking the trainer out for instruction tonight, and before my student gets there I’m going to do a flight just shooting touch-n-go’s just for the heck of it.

What I teach my students is to fly the pattern about 75’ – 100’ up and about 150’ past the runway edge at ½ throttle. When it appears the plane crosses a line between you and the corner of the approach end of the runway, pull the power back to idle and add in 5 clicks of power and make your turn for the base leg and turn final when you’ll be lined up looking down your shoulder and see just a small portion of the fuselage side. You’ll have to adjust power as needed for the conditions to get the plane to come down right in front of you. One thing to always remember is to keep adequate airspeed and not let the nose rise above the horizon unless you have adequate power as this will cause a stall. While this does give you a longer approach, it’ll also help you set up the landing approach with less things happening at once – you can concentrate on the turns to base and final, and then control the approach in final without worrying about having to make any turns low and slow over the runway. With practice and experience you’ll be able to shorten the pattern/approach, but don’t rush it.

Just hand in there. Landings are the hardest part of flying and take a while to get the hang of. One of these times you’ll notice you don’t even think about landing, it’ll just become as automatic and natural as all the other flying you’re doing. You’ll soon find you fly the same pattern and make turns at the same spots every time.

Hogflyer

jetmech05

throttle is altitude control on approach and elevator is speed control.....you know what I'm talking about...you catch it with full elevator and you stall...instead of using elevator when the sink rate is too high put on 2 or 3 clicks of power and take it right back off again...it's surprising how much that will stop the sink...no rule that says you can't land with some power on...if needed...
your glide path should put you on the runway.. not short of the runway...you want to trade altitude for airspeed...
Lastly...don't force a landing....go around if required..go around several times if you need to....
No good landings come from bad approaches...not many bad landings come from good approaches
Good Flyin to ya

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

One more thing to think about - WIND SHEAR. The fact that wind speed DECREASES as you get close to the ground.

If you are flying in a 10knt wind and land into wind then

at 20 30 ft. the wind is 10knts

as you descend the wind will drop say to say 5 knts at 8 ft.

The model will appear to be flying at the same speed but the AIRSPEED has dropped by 5 knts, this may take you below the stall speed. N.B. this has killed many pilots and many more aircaft full size and model.

On a windy day you need to land with a little more "airspeed" to cope with wind shear.

brenthampton79

Alex, all the advice they have gave you is good advice, when im instructing students(full scale) The key to good landings are involved with several different things approach is everything, stability is the key here. Also it sounds like you are dive bombing the runway (trading altitude for speed then trying to recover and flair with full elevater)
If you make a good solid stable approach then your landing will result in a good landing usually, approach speed in a real plane is 1.3 vso(1.3X stall speed, not sure if this works in a model) I have seen a few that say they are accomplished model pilots come out to the airport and more less flies the thing on the ground, not really landing.
So basically stablize your landing speed and after you've done that like others have said throttle is what controls your decent, or accent. then when you get 2 or 3 feet above the ground start flaring like a duck and let it settle on the ground, if it balloons up releas a little elevator pressure to help it settle down, as I tell all my full scale students if it ever gets a little hairy push the throttle up and go around, try again, usually if a bad landing starts then it will usually end up that way, not many makes saves that often and turns out perfect touch down. This is especially true for when that wind picks you up off the ground.

practice practice is the other saying i have too, thats about the only way to learn.
key factor stablized approach=good touchdown

XLEEM

My Feedback: (2)

I'm no pro at this RC landing stuff either but the same principles apply to RC as to real airplanes. When I was in flight training the one thing my CFI kept telling me on landings is that "THROTTLE CONTROLS ALTITUDE, ELEVATOR CONTROLS AIRSPEED". So maybe instead of using as you put it "full up elevator" maybe more throttle would help. XLEEM

Alex7403

Thanks guys,
Yes this is all true and all good advice I’m just forgetting it when it starts diving.
If the weather here permits I’ll try good landings tomorrow.
Thanks for the instructors, it looks like you guys know what you are talking about especially from the student side.

Alex

jetmech05

alex tie a string around your throttle thumb...or a rubber band...the elevator is speed control...the throttle is altitude...that is important...2 or 3 clicks on then right back off, instead of elevator....