hello all!!!!

I have a Saito FA91 that started makin some racket the otherday. This is my first time taking an engine fully apart. Had to see what was goin on. Turned out the rear bearing was busted. I was told once to just get a screw driver w/ hammer and tap around the edges of the bearing to get it out. Well that worked fine for the front bearing! tapped out rather easily. When i tried it on the rear, the center ring and all the balls busted out leaving the outer ring stuck in the crank case! i can't get it out, can't get a good grab on a lip anywhere to tap it out and i dont have 60 bucks to get a bearing puller which i don't know if it would even work in this case. I heard somethin once about putting the case in the oven??? What the deal with that? Soooooooo ...anyone got any ideas to help me get this bearing..or half a bearing out????? (only the outer ring of the rear bearing is stuck in the crank case)

***any help would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks in advance!!!!

-kevin

Pull off any parts with O-rings and other non-heat safe parts, put the engine in a 325°F oven for 20 minutes, remove the engine with an oven mitt or rag and tap the engine on a block of wood. The bearing should drop right out. If not, it should be easy to push it out with a screwdriver, etc. Be careful not to scrathc/damage the engine case where the bearing goes.

Jack

I bought this little book from RCM years ago, not A lot has changed in any of the four strokes over the years and I think you can still get this book, there may be better ones on the market today?? I have A big pot and A hot plate out in my shop, I just drop the case into boiling water until hot then use my way cool home made bearing knocker outer to remove the rear bearing. Works every time.

hey guys thanks!!!!!!.....but......i tried both and still cant get that outer ring outta the case! what gives? Anything else i can try or is it time for a new crankcase?
-kevin

try again at 325 for 20 min...make sure the oven is pre heated before putting the engine in the oven...then get the bearing out as soon as you can don't let the engine cool.....once the bearing is out, install the new ones right away.....let the engine cool on it's own...keeping the bearings in their seats....
Good Flyin to ya

Let the engine thoroughly heat soak in the oven. DON'T raise the temp too high, just the amount of time. The case expands more than the bearing under heat so the bearing should drop out with a minimum of assistance once hot enough. When you are tapping the case do it in a manner that the bearings inertia will tend to unseat it from the case. I've done this many times and it's always worked. I do the heating on a cookie sheet because many times the bearing falls out without being touched or coaxed.

Me too, had bearings 'stuck' in the engine, couldn't get them out and found that more time in the oven was all it took. You should be able to LIGHTLY tap the crank case on a wooden cutting board and the bearing will fall out. 325 sounds high to me (mine worked at 250) so don't go any hotter than that, just put it in longer if need be.

Oh, and by the way...the screwdriver thing is a BAD idea. Don't ever hit your bearings (ESPECIALLY the good ones) with hard and pointy objects. They spin over 10,000 rpm! A small dent could lead to a much bigger problem. So now you know

His bearings already fell out, he was/is just removing the outer ring. Joes engine was also brand new so everything was nice and fresh, that counts for something, I think?? I had an old OS 1.20 I was rebuilding this year and the bearing was so fused into the case that when it did finally come out A part of the case was fused onto the bearing itself. I just happened to have another case but it was the first time I have ever seen anything like that in A model engine. The engine had years and years of hard use and had never been rebuilt before. I bought it used and know the fellow I got it from thought removing the price tag from the prop was ballancing it. Not sure if that would have hammered the bearing in or not but it was sure pounded in??

Ohhh Boy...this could be a tricky one...[:@]
Some Saito rear bearings are a rather tight fit in there...and having lost the mass of the balls, retainer and inner race, it might be really difficult the knock the remaining outer race out by rapping it on a block of wood.

In past experiences, I have had to use a lot more heat on a few Saito engines to get the R. bearing out...
You might need to go higher in your oven temp?

Is there any way you can get in behind the outer race? Like say with a special tool made out of a narrow flat bladed screwdriver with the tip bent 90 * and ground thin? (know what I mean? )
Similar to the pic in Greybeards post #3 but go in through the backplate opening? Is there anything (any "lip" ) to catch on? You'd still need to use heat...and leather gloves of course.

hey proptop...yes ive already torched a screw driver and made a 90 degree bend and ground thin and you said. I cant get behind the race tho. its too snug with no gap. you mentioned raising the temp. what temp do you recommend? ive already tried at 325 for 20 mins, then again for 40 mins, and my last try was at 325 for 1 hour! i immediately pull it out and tap it on the wood and then try with the tool ive made. the thing wont budge! so how high and how long should i try in the oven this time?

-kevin

That's where you get close to straddling that thin line, ya know!?
I would try 400 but when you start to get much above that, you could get close to the point where the Alum. begins to soften? I believe 600-650 is where you can go from case to blob...so 400 or even 450 (? ) should be OK...but I wouldn't guarantee it.

I guess one way to look at it though (at least the way I would look at it if it were my engine ) is if you can't get it out, the case is no good anyway...so go for it.

Don't know if the guys at Horizon would know either?

There is a "Club Saito" in the glow engines forum...there probably would be some more suggestions if you ask there.

OK...I posted a link to this thread in Club Saito.

Do not tap it. Slam it. Grit your teeth. The wood should not damage the aluminum case. Hit it as flat as you can.

Worst case you buy a new case anyways, eh?

This could be of help:

The three pieces needed to make this tool can be obtained from used small screwdrivers or hard wire from older landing gear.

Good luck!!

Alfred

Make your tool out of piano wire and do your bend without heat. Then cut it and grind to shape like shown in the photo. That little home made tool can be used as A pusher or puller, A tap on-er or A yank on-er. Using heat to bend it takes out the temper. All you need to do is lip hook it.

I like to play with fire. I've always used a propane torch to heat the case up and knock the bearings out with a hard wack against a block of wood. There is just something about putting an engine full of fuel residue into an oven I cook food in.....

Hogflyer

ok guys..question....am i supposed to simply use the screw as a wedge to tap inbetween these three peices? or do i actually screw the screw down inbetween them? ive made this tool you guys have shown me but when i turn the screw to wedge and expand the three peices to press against the ring and lip....the 3 peices keep spinning and turning out from catching the lip. haha man and ive tried to tap the screw in as a wedge but it just goes to one side or the other....cant get it to stay inbetween the 3 peices. i got a grab ONE time, and when i went to tap it out...the tool just popped off the lip. :::ulling hair out:::: WHAT AM I DOING WRONG????

haha ok hogflyer....im trying ur idea next! got my propane torch sitting here from makin the tool earlier. how shall i use this torch to heat this crankcase? do i blow fire all over the whole case? or just on the ring thats stuck? how do i know when its hot enough? this one makes me a lil nervous but im out of options i think!

-kevin

Just out of curiosity, have you tried to re-seat the rear bearing? Since you first tried getting it out with a screwdriver it may be sitting slightly crooked inside the case, and thus not wanting to slide out. Maybe you can try heating the case and pushing the bearing back into its original position, then reheat and see if it drops out.

...just a thought.

It looks like (in alfred's pic ) that you are supposed to make a deeper groove in the ball groove so the tool will get a better grip?
Do you have a Dremel tool? One of those with a fiberglass reinforced cut-off wheel would work nicely for that operation.

And you use the torch on the outside of the case, keeping away from the bearing race...you don't want to heat that directly.
"Paint" the heat on...waving the torch back and forth, and all around the case to heat it quickly and evenly. Usually a little smoke will start to wisp out of the nooks and crannies...that's when it's good 'n hot...don't go much hotter than that. You don't need more than about a 2" long flame either...no need to really blast it.

Watch these:

You can skip to 7:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuzEco3EDUM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLSoX...eature=related

Hi!
The secret is to use a propane torch ! Using an oven or heating in water is not the way you do it if you have an old grease engine on hand!

If you have an old engine that has been used a lot then you might have to heat it and cooling it under the tap several times.
Doing it that way the bearing will just fall out if you tap it hard against a piece of wood (lying on the floor, remember you have to have a solid surface to slammed it against)!
Never ever try to hammer the bearing out! That way the tight fit of the bearing surface will get lost.

The screw works as an opener of the three pieces that have grooves to grab the racing bearing which had to be slotted first with a dremmel as the drawing shows. The screw will only work if you join the three pieces with a steel wire or electric wire to maintain these three pieces together. When you hit this new tool with a hammer the three pieces will expand because of the action of the screw which will provide a better grab.
I would use for this purpose an old big piece of wood with a hole that can maintain the crankcase and the tool could go trough the hole.

The slots that you have to do on the racing of the bearings will take some time because of the hardeness of the material, but give it some time, it will work.

Hello; I have seen that problem 3 times, where the rear bearing blew apart leaving a tiny ring to get out of a deep hole. Usually (2 times) heating it in an oven at 250* and smacking it against a block of wood, get's it, but you've tried that with no success, so you might have to do what I did on that Saito 80 I had that did the same thing. What I did was attach the 90 degree head to my Dremel tool and put a cutting wheel on it and cut through the bearing outer shell at 3 places, which then came out. I don't have to tell you to go carefully and don't gouge holes in the case, just the bearing. I found for the second and third cut, that it wasn't necessary to go all the way through the shell to weaken it enough to split it when hit from the front. Even if you touch the case with the dremel, after you clean it all up, there's no where for the oil to leak to, and a little scratch on the bearing mount surface won't matter to the running of the engine.. I admit that this works better on larger bearings, but a steady hand, and ten minutes will have the broken shell out.