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my motor wont run

Old 01-09-2009, 08:19 AM
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slickscustoms
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Default my motor wont run

he guys whats up! im trying to get back into flying after 15 years off. i have a k&b .40 in my trainer that i'm trying to get running. sometimes it will crank and sometimes it wont. if it does crank it will be right before the battery in my glow plug igniter dies. when it is running it is running so rich that it will foul the plug. ive taken the carb and head off and cleaned both and adjusted the needle where it should be but its still acting stupid! any other suggestions?? thanks!!
Old 01-09-2009, 08:31 AM
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jetmech05
 
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Default RE: my motor wont run

you returned the needles to factory settings? is this engine new?
the easiest way to start a motor is with a starter....with that said it's impossible for me to give you a solution.....there are just too many things that can keep you from starting.....anything from fuel lines to settings to glow plug...
the best advice I can give you is to go to a local club and ask some of those folks to help you....besides you want to learn to fly with an instructor..
Good Luck
Old 01-09-2009, 08:37 AM
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MinnFlyer
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Default RE: my motor wont run

No such thing as a needle being "Where it should be"

If it's that rich, turn the needle in and try again.
Old 01-09-2009, 09:03 AM
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slickscustoms
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Default RE: my motor wont run

the motor is 15 years old and was only run a few times way back then. i realize there isnt allways the same needle setting. but it was set at what the manual "recomended". it has a new plug and new 15% fuel in it. it doesnt want to start with a starter. once i get fuel to the carb if it starts its usually by me hand starting it.
Old 01-09-2009, 09:16 AM
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xcfds65
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Default RE: my motor wont run

If the plane and engine has been setting up for 15 years i am sure the fuel lines need to be replaced. you mite want to take the carb off and clean it out as well. old fuel will set up in the carb and make it hard to start and make it just about imposable to adjust the carb. I dont fly as much as i once did but i start my planes up at least once a month just to keep them from getting in bad shape.
Old 01-09-2009, 09:26 AM
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bruce88123
 
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Default RE: my motor wont run

I'd suggest taking the engine out to a local club and seeking help from some "current" flyers. They should have sufficient equipment and knowledge to start a reluctant engine. I'd begin by trying to start it a tad on the lean side and 1/4 throttle (or slightly less) while cranking with an electric starter. I'd then slowly richen the mixture until it started. A SLIGHT prime directly into the carb inlet might help.
Old 01-09-2009, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

Try this:

Close the needle valve completely. Prime the carb and use the electric starter on it (No sense wasting muscles)

It should start and run for a few seconds, then once it has burned out the prime, it will quit. At this point, you know that IF it was flooded, it will no longer be flooded.

Now open the needle 1/2 turn, prime and start again. It will probably do the same thing, but it MAY fun a few seconds longer.

Open another 1/2 turn and repeat.

From this point on, open 1/4 turn and repeat until it runs.
Old 01-09-2009, 10:00 AM
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goirish
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Default RE: my motor wont run

One of the things I do is take the needle valve out completely and turn the engine over with a electric starter. Make sure you have the vent line hooked up to the muffler for pressure. When you turn it over it should flush out fuel where the needle valve was. This will also help clean out any thing that may have been blocking the spray bar. Worth a try.
Old 01-09-2009, 10:04 AM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

ORIGINAL: slickscustoms

he guys whats up! im trying to get back into flying after 15 years off. i have a k&b .40 in my trainer that i'm trying to get running. sometimes it will crank and sometimes it wont. if it does crank it will be right before the battery in my glow plug igniter dies. when it is running it is running so rich that it will foul the plug. ive taken the carb and head off and cleaned both and adjusted the needle where it should be but its still acting stupid! any other suggestions?? thanks!!
That is why I am switching my planes to electric. I have two engines that started fine for me in the beginning, then both suddenly wouldn't start, exactly as yours is acting. Too coincidental to be glow plugs. I am thinking it was the fuel. I looked at the fuel can and saw it stated 'helicopter'. My LHS just wanted to make the $$$ I guess so he said it was fine. Glow is just too tricky to figure out, took a whole summer away from me learning the flying basics, aside from the fact that I don't know engines and prob wouldn't figure out the correct idle. Like I said, easier to convert my planes to electric.
Old 01-09-2009, 10:05 AM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

How old is your fuel? ( Sorry, just read that you used new fuel)....

1. Change your fuel lines
2. Try using a battery powered starter
3. If you get the engine running, leave the glow ignitor on it while you tune it
4. try putting on a smaller prop (easier on the engine, easier to tune)
5. Try different fuel (5-10% nitro)
6. change the glow plug (OS 8 type)
7. Have you tried adjusting the low end needle as well as the high end?

Old 01-09-2009, 10:22 AM
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slickscustoms
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Default RE: my motor wont run

my fuel is new 15%. i'm sure its just an adjustment issue its just frustrating having my plug ignitor dying about the time i start getting it to run! i guess i need a back up ignitor : ) i'll get it as soon it figures out i'm bigger than it is! hahaha thanks guys cant wait to get this thing in the air!
Old 01-09-2009, 10:40 AM
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RCKen
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Default RE: my motor wont run


ORIGINAL: shd3920

ORIGINAL: slickscustoms

he guys whats up! im trying to get back into flying after 15 years off. i have a k&b .40 in my trainer that i'm trying to get running. sometimes it will crank and sometimes it wont. if it does crank it will be right before the battery in my glow plug igniter dies. when it is running it is running so rich that it will foul the plug. ive taken the carb and head off and cleaned both and adjusted the needle where it should be but its still acting stupid! any other suggestions?? thanks!!
That is why I am switching my planes to electric. I have two engines that started fine for me in the beginning, then both suddenly wouldn't start, exactly as yours is acting. Too coincidental to be glow plugs. I am thinking it was the fuel. I looked at the fuel can and saw it stated 'helicopter'. My LHS just wanted to make the $$$ I guess so he said it was fine. Glow is just too tricky to figure out, took a whole summer away from me learning the flying basics, aside from the fact that I don't know engines and prob wouldn't figure out the correct idle. Like I said, easier to convert my planes to electric.
This isn't true, IMHO. With glow engines you just have to learn to operate them properly. However, this is exactly the same for anything you use, including electric planes. There is no "perfect" solution in this hobby. There are positives and negatives with any equipment you use. Same goes for electric. But to simply lable glow engines as bad because of an issue like this is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. As you are finding out in your thread on converting to electric power, there are just as many things you have to take into consideration and learn with electric power. So like I said, there are no perfect solutions.

Also, there is nothing wrong with using "heli" fuel in your engine. It's usually a higher nitro content so you'll have to run the engine a bit richer to keep it cool.

Ken
Old 01-09-2009, 11:50 AM
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brett65
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Default RE: my motor wont run

If your glow igniter is going dead then that could also be a problem. You must have a good glow starter to properly heat the plug. Mine has been used up to atleast twenty times in one day, and it still works a week later with no charge. You can get a good one for about twenty bucks at local hobby shops. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ800&P=0
Old 01-09-2009, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

ORIGINAL: slickscustoms
when it is running it is running so rich that it will foul the plug. ive taken the carb and head off and cleaned both and adjusted the needle where it should be but its still acting stupid!
If it is too rich you just simply turn the needle in, it is evidently not where it should be...
Old 01-09-2009, 03:47 PM
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Spacemonkey71
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Default RE: my motor wont run

I can tell you with almost 100% certainty what your problem is: K&B .40 series engines don't run worth a CRAP with 15% fuel in them!!!! [:@]

How do I know this? Because I've got a K&B .45 and I was seriously PO'd when I couldn't get it to run for more than a minute or two at a time, then I spoke with someone about K&B engines any my frustrations. It just so happened that he had owned several of them over the years and he told me they WILL NOT tolerate fuel above the 10% line. I drained the tank, flushed the lines, and put in some "sweet pink" in the tank and I was flying inside 5 minutes. No kidding! It had just about EVERY problem you described (plus a couple of extras like not being able to target the sweet spot on the idle). The K&B engines are built like bricks, but they are SUPER finiky in their diet.... It makes no sense that 15% fuel freaks out an engine that runs great on 10%.... it's the strangest thing....

But while you're at it, there's no harm in replacing the fuel tank and fuel lines. I had to change the tank+tubing out on my Sr.Falcon that hadn't been fired up in 15-20 years! The brass clunk was so oxidized it was GREEN!!! [X(] and the sludge in the tank was like something out of a bad sci-fi movie.... or duck pate'....

Don't give up on that engine, K&B makes a dang good engine that lasts a heck of a long time; but it usually takes a little while to figure out how to get it running
Old 01-09-2009, 04:17 PM
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Default RE: my motor wont run


ORIGINAL: Spacemonkey71

I can tell you with almost 100% certainty what your problem is: K&B .40 series engines don't run worth a CRAP with 15% fuel in them!!!! [:@]

How do I know this? Because I've got a K&B .45 and I was seriously PO'd when I couldn't get it to run for more than a minute or two at a time, then I spoke with someone about K&B engines any my frustrations. It just so happened that he had owned several of them over the years and he told me they WILL NOT tolerate fuel above the 10% line. I drained the tank, flushed the lines, and put in some "sweet pink" in the tank and I was flying inside 5 minutes. No kidding! It had just about EVERY problem you described (plus a couple of extras like not being able to target the sweet spot on the idle). The K&B engines are built like bricks, but they are SUPER finiky in their diet.... It makes no sense that 15% fuel freaks out an engine that runs great on 10%.... it's the strangest thing....

But while you're at it, there's no harm in replacing the fuel tank and fuel lines. I had to change the tank+tubing out on my Sr.Falcon that hadn't been fired up in 15-20 years! The brass clunk was so oxidized it was GREEN!!! [X(] and the sludge in the tank was like something out of a bad sci-fi movie.... or duck pate'....

Don't give up on that engine, K&B makes a dang good engine that lasts a heck of a long time; but it usually takes a little while to figure out how to get it running
Nonsense. I've got several K&B 40's of various vintages (no .45's though) and they love 15% fuel as that is all I buy. I run both K&B carbs and Perry carbs on them without a problem and have been running them since the 70's. They do HATE to be run too lean with the ring in there though so watch out for that. BTW, I also have K&B 61's with and without pumps and even one with a reverse crankshaft & pump that runs great on 15% fuel. No, I'm not stuck on K&B's as I also have OS's but K&B's were my first engines and I still like them.
Old 01-09-2009, 05:46 PM
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slickscustoms
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Default RE: my motor wont run

that crossed my mind that the maybe i should try a leaner fuel. i had it running the other day and got it leaned out where it sounded good and reved all the way to wot but then died and wouldnt start back before my plug ignitor died. which my plug ignitor is brand new and has a full charge on it with a meter on top. i charge it over night the night before i know im gonna try and crank the airplane.
Old 01-09-2009, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

Nonsense
I too had an 8 letter pharse in mind.
Old 01-09-2009, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

The ring is stuck on the piston. It will do it evey time one sets for a long time
Old 01-09-2009, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

replace the fuel tank, the rubber stopper is probably deteriorated and split or rotten. and the clunk is probably plugged up. unless they get rust or corroded, metal engine parts dont go bad. seals and rubber parts do.
Old 01-09-2009, 11:15 PM
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Default RE: my motor wont run

had it started and leaned it to where it sounded good all the way to wot?...I wonder how hot you got it...leaning a glow engine to where it sounds good is too lean....
Old 01-10-2009, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: my motor wont run


ORIGINAL: slickscustoms

that crossed my mind that the maybe i should try a leaner fuel. i had it running the other day and got it leaned out where it sounded good and reved all the way to wot but then died and wouldnt start back before my plug ignitor died. which my plug ignitor is brand new and has a full charge on it with a meter on top. i charge it over night the night before i know im gonna try and crank the airplane.
Something is wrong here.... a glow ignitor should not be on a glow plug for more than 1 minute...if it hasnt started something else is wrong...needle setting, carb setting.., fuel lines.,, air bubbles,, bad plug, or your reading is off, take the glow plug out and see if it is a bright orange glow or not...if not then you have a bad reading on your meter, is the engine flooding?...Rog

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