arichards1969

Hi all,

Am I right in thinking that it`s a good idea for beginners to mix in a little up elevator with the rudder when useing it ( the rudder ) to turn?

I have tried doing this on my 6EX and on one side it is fine but when I apply opposite rudder the elevator now goes down ?

Thanks everyone,

ants.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

No, it's not a good idea. Beginners should learn to fly with the 4 primary controls and no mix.

As to your mixing problem, you have a straight mix going. To get up elevator with the rudder going either way, you need an absolute value mix from the rudder to elevator.

DMcQuinn

My Feedback: (13)

You need to program both side of the mix. If it's a JR or spektrum radio, you must hold the rudder stick to the left when entering the mix percentage. then hold the rudder stick to the right and enter the same number (e.g. 10%) for the right. When you are done the elevator will go up a little for both left and right rudder. One side of the mix may have a negative number. But if the receiver is turned on, you can see visibly that the elevator is going up for both left and right rudder.

Charlie P.

Exactly so. You should learn to fly before you start having the radio do the thinking for you. The only way to educate your thumbs is through practice and developing a reflex and "muscle conditioned" response to flight controls. It also has trade-offs in that there are times you don't want a mix - and trying to find and flip a switch can be a disaster for a beginner. Invariably they look at the radio and take their eyes off the model.

Are you talking two or three channel with no ailerons? With full control surfaces the turn is initiated by ailerons . . . not rudder. Opposite rudder helps to keep the nose up, not the elevator.

dignlivn

I prefer a basic 4 channel system with no
bells and whistles (computer/mix/expo/etc.

Learn to fly the plane, is my thinking. JMO,

Bob

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The Ultra Stick airplanes tend to climb with rudder

The Four Stars go down with rudder

It depends on the design of the airplane.

arichards1969

Thanks Guys,

I thought the idea was to start with throttle/ rudder/ elevator , then move on to ailerons ?

I have a minimag and thought it would be easier to leave the airleron alone for now as I am teaching myself, although I`m also teaching myself to fly a Honeybee king 2 3d heli as well, so I have some experience with airlerons.

Will try the mixing on my Futaba.

ants.

dignlivn

The Heli will not help with ailerons on your
fixed wing IMO. I tought myself to hover my
Heli, at a high price (parts). I sought a club
and instructor for my plane. Can you do
a figure 8 with the heli ? I can't as of yet, but
it's no problem with my plane. They are 2 different
Birds.

Bob

Charlie P.

Generally, if the model has ailerons it will be difficult to fly without using them. You need a lot of built-in dihedral to turn a model on rudder alone.

arichards1969

Hi and thanks,

I can`t do 8`s yet, I`m still perfecting my hovers

The Multiplex Minimag is designed to be flown without aileron, or with aileron when you`re ready.

ants.

TedMo

Perhaps I'm an odd ball!!!??? However, been flying for many years and have never considered it more difficult to fly useing ailerons than rudder alone. In fact do believe it to be easier since ailerons control the amount of bank which when co-rdinated with elevator controls the turn. Whereas rudder immediatly creates a nose down attitude that has to be overcome by elevator and rudder input. So why start by learning what not to use?

arichards1969

Thanks TedMo,

As a newcomer it seems everyone has different views and advice and it can be a bit confusing !

If the ailerons control turns then what is the rudders primary use ? ( told u I was a newcomer )

Cheers
ants.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

ailerons do not always control the turns completely and little corrections are needed from the rudder. Some maneuvers require the rudder

The rudder controls direction on the ground

RogerParrett

Rudder is especially used on stall turns. It can also be used to maintain a straight line w/o tilting the wings. A definiate No-No in pattern flying...

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The rudder is used to do a spin

It is also used to do a snap roll

The rudder is used to do a good roll in most planes to make it look good

nobodytwo

Actually, netiher the rudder or the ailerons turn the aircraft for a normal turn. It's the elevator that brings the nose around for the turn. All the ailerons or the rudder do is get the plane in the correct attitude to make the turn.

Happy Landings!

arichards1969

Thanks Everyone [8D]

It`s beginning to make sense, although nobodytwo`s previous post leaves me a bit baffled !

ants.

Charlie P.

To some extent me too.

I believe the point he was conveying is that the ailerons initiate the bank but the elevator turns the aircraft. Otherwise it would just fly straight on with the one wing down (until that old rascal gravity got busy).

I have a model now (a Contender 60 with a dead-straight full-length wing spar - no dihedral) that if you give it rudder it just crabs ahead at the same altitude and heading without beginning a bank or proper turn for several seconds. Eventually it begins a turn, the nose drops and then it dutch rolls to the OPPOSITE direction of the initial rudder input.

Ailerons initiate bank, elevator initiates pitch, rudder initiates yaw. With a flat-bottomed wing throttle can also be used to control altitude. I say "initiate" because as the aircraft changes attitude the control surfaces have different uses. For example: in knife-edge flight the rudder controls pitch. And the control inputs an airline pilot would use to reverse directions keeping at 1.2G and not spilling passenger drinks are much different than a fighter jock would use to snap around at 7G. Almost any manuever requires ALL sufaces to be operated for perfect execution; some models more than others. Just slamming back the stick can get a loop. but it may not end in the same vertical plane or horizontal plane as it was entered if there was a side-wind or the model is not completely balanced laterally. And to maintain the same speed throughout the loop takes careful throttle management. Most of us can throw the stick over for a roll and some designs can be trimmed or use differential to give a perfect axial one with ailerons alone. But try a two-count hesitating four-point roll on ailerons alone.

That bit of finesse is what keeps experienced pilots flying J-3 Cubs. Operating all the control surfaces in concert instead of just banging through a sloppy but mostly complete maneuver takes every bit as much skill in Pattern, IMAC or 3-D.

I know pilots who have been flying five or more years and never throttle back until it's time to land. But they're happy so who cares?

When I learned to fly R/C it was with a glider and two channels: rudder & elevator. I much prefer the added ailerons. I've also flown aileron and elevator powered models and those (IMHO) make more sense in some cases for a small hand-launched model. Learning on a glider has allowed me over the years to keep a cool head with a dead-stick that I notice a lot of pilots lack. EVERY glider flight is a dead-stick.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I guess there are lots of theories on how to turn. When you are taking off and landing, you want to use the rudder to steer the plane, and use ailerons to keep the wings level.

When I make a turn in the sky, I simultaneously start the turn with aileron, give a little up elevator to keep the nose up, and a little same-direction rudder to kick the tail around and keep it horizontally level with the nose (called coordinating the turn). Depending on the plane, this can actually result in the need to start rolling the plane in the opposite direction.

I agree to not use any mixes until all of this stuff seems like second nature. My personal thoughts are that mixes are to correct 'bad habits' of the plane after you have learned how to properly trim your plane out, using a barrage of in-flight tests to check the angle of your wings, center of gravity, lateral balance, etc.

The mix you were referring to is not possible with the radio you have. I had one and that was one of the reasons I sold it, although I still have yet to use any mixes on my new radio.

Take the time to get some altitude and practice using your rudder - see what happens, see what you like, and try to correct what you don't. The rudder is a very important part of the airplane - in models and in full scale planes.

jetmech05

when you use ailerons to turn..the down wing looses some lift....the aircraft starts to descend and (sprial) turn to the down wing..this is why you need the elevator to compensate for the loss of lift keeping the nose level.....now the elevator will bring the nose around as said above in high angle of bank turns..if you add elevator (pitch) the nose goes up... imagine the airplane hanging by one wing, where you can see the whole top of the plane..using the elevator to pitch the nose to you you just aided the turn.....
Rudder will (yaw) the plane left and right...what happens is the fuselage will partially block airflow over the wing in the direction of the yaw..(yaw left, block airflow over the left wing)...left wing looses lift..the airplane will begin to descend and turn to the left...you need elevator to keep the nose level etc etc....the difference between rudder and ailerons is you need very little rudder to loose lift on the wing...so the airplane wants to roll on you..compensate by using opposite aileron to rudder...this how you do a flat or skidding turn....depending on the airplane, you may always need opposite aileron to rudder for a good turn...now the coordinated turn is using all three axis to make turn.....believe it or not not all full scale aircraft use rudder at all times to turn....the 727 doesn't and the time I got to fly the 777 sim I was told not to use rudder
Good Flyin to all

Charlie P.

So with a high-wing plane or parisol wing that can't happen (no fuselage beside the wing) and they don't turn? I had heard it was that the forward wing is accelerating in relationship to the "inside" wing and the added speed gives it more lift.

It pays to remember that ALL flight is three dimensional and regardless of the heading the airplane is ALWAYS reacting to tha apparant wind, which is the column of air it is passing through in the direction of travel. And the direction of travel may or may not be where the nose is pointing.