setting daul rates
03-21-2009 | 12:41 PM
#1
Thread Starter
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setting daul rates
getting ready to maiden a Hanger 9 cessna (value series), 63 in wing, os 55ax, set the throws per instructions
alerions 9/16 up/down
elevator 3/8 up/down
rudder 1" right/left
is there a "rule of thumb" for setting low rates?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN1600
alerions 9/16 up/down
elevator 3/8 up/down
rudder 1" right/left
is there a "rule of thumb" for setting low rates?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN1600
03-21-2009 | 01:02 PM
#2
Senior Member
RE: setting daul rates
Not that I know of but I generally set my high rates a bit more then is specified then set lows for somewhat less then called for. Actually I rarely even go by what is called for just eyeball what I think is good. I have been doing this for over 50 years though so may have a better idea of what it may require than a beginner
03-21-2009 | 03:20 PM
#3
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
RE: setting daul rates
My rule of thumb is to not have dual rates on anything but a 3-D plane.
Something like a sport plane really has no need for them.
And I can't tell you how many crashes I have seen because someone tried to do a loop but forgot they had their low rates on.
Keep it simple!
Something like a sport plane really has no need for them.
And I can't tell you how many crashes I have seen because someone tried to do a loop but forgot they had their low rates on.
Keep it simple!
03-21-2009 | 04:14 PM
#4
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From: pgh, PA
RE: setting daul rates
Hey how do ya like that cessna?someone gave that plane to me I put on a 40 la and it was horrible but I haven't gave up on it.I just put on a .46 evolution,was kinda thinking the .40 la was not enough engine,haven't flown it with the .46 yet.
03-21-2009 | 07:58 PM
#6
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: setting daul rates
I drop my high rates down about 40% of the throw for low rates. I haven't seen any crashes like Minn said but I have been known to run out of elevator when landing when I forgot to go back onto high rates. One of the reasons I have the rates {but don't use them often} is because I set my high rates quite a bit higher then called for so when I do go down to low rates they are closer to what would be called for in the instructions. It's just how I set up my planes and not something everyone should do.
03-21-2009 | 10:23 PM
#7
My Feedback: (8)
RE: setting daul rates
Fly the plane with recommended throws and see how you like it. You might think the roll rate is slow but the elevator is touchy or something, so set your dual rates based on the plane, not your imagination of how the plane will respond.
03-22-2009 | 08:38 AM
#9
Senior Member
RE: setting daul rates
Why choose one over the other? They both have their use so why not use them? As far as forgetting which rate your on, guess you're not paying much attemtion to what you're doing. Should be quite evident whether your on high or low.
03-22-2009 | 10:26 AM
#11
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From: Sailing in the Eastern Caribbean
RE: setting daul rates
With a Futaba set I would use 60% rates on both ailerons and elevator and 40% expo. This has been my standard default set up for years. If you can put both on one switch to begin with.
One tip. Get someone to stand with you on the first flights and ask them to flip the switch for you if you need it and are having trouble controlling the plane. The number of pilots who have to look at the TX to switch the rates is amazing!
One tip. Get someone to stand with you on the first flights and ask them to flip the switch for you if you need it and are having trouble controlling the plane. The number of pilots who have to look at the TX to switch the rates is amazing!
03-22-2009 | 10:40 AM
#12
My Feedback: (8)
RE: setting daul rates
Again, I would fly the plane with no expo and see which controls feel twitchy, and by how much. Then add expo accordingly. Some of my planes have had no expo, maybe 15% on my pattern planes, and my Yak came with directions to use a lot of expo.
Remember that by using expo, you will 'soften' the center of the sticks around neutral, but you will gain responsiveness as you add more input.
I think a lot of people use expo and rates to correct for an improperly setup plane. For example, having too much throw mechanically setup in the plane, then using expo to soften the feel and not even using full travel of the control sticks.
It was suggested to me to learn to fly planes without using the computer radio as a crutch. I took that advice, and found out that a lot can AND SHOULD be changed on the plane to get it to fly properly. Once the plane is setup right, you can start using the tools of the radio to dial in the fine-tuning.
This is not a high performance plane; you should be able to handle it without dual rates and expo. It's OK if it feels twitchy on the first flight or two.
Remember that by using expo, you will 'soften' the center of the sticks around neutral, but you will gain responsiveness as you add more input.
I think a lot of people use expo and rates to correct for an improperly setup plane. For example, having too much throw mechanically setup in the plane, then using expo to soften the feel and not even using full travel of the control sticks.
It was suggested to me to learn to fly planes without using the computer radio as a crutch. I took that advice, and found out that a lot can AND SHOULD be changed on the plane to get it to fly properly. Once the plane is setup right, you can start using the tools of the radio to dial in the fine-tuning.
This is not a high performance plane; you should be able to handle it without dual rates and expo. It's OK if it feels twitchy on the first flight or two.
03-22-2009 | 06:54 PM
#16
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: setting daul rates
Joe has some good points, I never used Expo or rates until I was flying for about a year then I started to play with them to find out what they did and if I like them or needed them. A lot depends on my planes how I set them up. All of my planes are now High Performance stunt planes so I set up both rates and expo on them all. I have been doing it for a while so I pretty much know what I like. I start at -45% expo and go up from there as needed/wanted but only on my ailerons and elevators and a +35% on my throttle with zero on rudder. I'm using a Futaba radio so the - minus. Depending on the plane I may end up with -65% expo. Another pilot may find {will find} my starting points way off for them but this works for me. I know this would freak out other pilots but anyone that fly's my planes love them. These starting points took a lot of time for me to figure them out.
03-22-2009 | 07:34 PM
#18
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
RE: setting daul rates
i set always set dual rates,
the low rate, for me, is the high rates that the manufacture recommends. with expo
high rates are as far as i can get the controls to move. reason being i fly in wind, sometimes i push my luck.
i fly low rates all the time on non windy days. but when its windy, landings and takeoff's are always on high rates. i have saved my plane a few times when the wind pushes the plane onto a knife edge 10 feet off the ground, thanks to the high rates.
what i will never do is set the low rate throws to "low" i crashed a plane that way (thankfully it was a spad so it cost 10 bucks to replace) cause i was doing a roll at about 20 feet above the ground on low rates [:@] so now if i want to fly really smooth i set the rates to manufacture recommended high rates and set 80-100% expo. so if i need the throw i have it
the low rate, for me, is the high rates that the manufacture recommends. with expo
high rates are as far as i can get the controls to move. reason being i fly in wind, sometimes i push my luck.
i fly low rates all the time on non windy days. but when its windy, landings and takeoff's are always on high rates. i have saved my plane a few times when the wind pushes the plane onto a knife edge 10 feet off the ground, thanks to the high rates.
what i will never do is set the low rate throws to "low" i crashed a plane that way (thankfully it was a spad so it cost 10 bucks to replace) cause i was doing a roll at about 20 feet above the ground on low rates [:@] so now if i want to fly really smooth i set the rates to manufacture recommended high rates and set 80-100% expo. so if i need the throw i have it
03-23-2009 | 06:22 AM
#19
My Feedback: (1)
RE: setting daul rates
I currently have 8 glow planes, and as you can see by my signature, a few of them are high-performers (Pattern type planes). As MINN suggested, I follow with that suggestion. Not a one of my planes have dual rates. I don't fly 3D.
I set the throws based on the manufacturers recommendations, and leave it at that. I do use Exponential, though, which, to me, is much better than dual rates. You get a soft entry, with more radical if needed... but never exceeding manufacturers settings. And, there is not one maneuver that I can't do with the settings as they are without dual rates. It's just another switch to forget to use propery.
I was at the field a while back. A rather new guy was there with a Something Extra and an OS .55 AX engine on board. Nice plane. He bought it from another club member. The person he bought it from had throws way beyond manufacturers recommendations with dual rates. The guy that bought the plane put it up for "his maiden" and was all over the sky with it. I was totally surprised that he didn't crash it. I ran over to him and asked him if he needed help, and he yelled YES.. YES.. Please!!! He was at the point where he was unable to get ahead of the thing and was just moments from crashing.. he could not coordinate himself to even climb to gain a safe altitude to hand it over to me. So, I told him to give me the transmitter.
I immediately realized that the thing was "out of control" and asked what switch was the dual rates switch. He pointed, I switched it and it calmed down... a bit. I could fly it ok, but it was way beyond what he could clearly do. I flew a few orbits to get the feel of the plane, then landed it.
I helped him take out the dual rates, then I helped him re-adjust his throws to within what I thought was ok (no book with me at that point) and I flew it again. Much better, but not yet there. So, I landed it and removed yet more throw out of all controls, and flew it a third time. I though it was where he could now fly the thing, but I also added about 30% exponential. That did the trick.
I gave him back his transmitter and told him to fly it. So, up he went. The look on his face at that point made it all worth while. He was overjoyed that he could manage to fly it without fear.
If it's a sport plane, and you don't do 3D, then I suggest you leave out the dual rates, set the throws according to the specs, and add some exponential.
CGr.
I set the throws based on the manufacturers recommendations, and leave it at that. I do use Exponential, though, which, to me, is much better than dual rates. You get a soft entry, with more radical if needed... but never exceeding manufacturers settings. And, there is not one maneuver that I can't do with the settings as they are without dual rates. It's just another switch to forget to use propery.
I was at the field a while back. A rather new guy was there with a Something Extra and an OS .55 AX engine on board. Nice plane. He bought it from another club member. The person he bought it from had throws way beyond manufacturers recommendations with dual rates. The guy that bought the plane put it up for "his maiden" and was all over the sky with it. I was totally surprised that he didn't crash it. I ran over to him and asked him if he needed help, and he yelled YES.. YES.. Please!!! He was at the point where he was unable to get ahead of the thing and was just moments from crashing.. he could not coordinate himself to even climb to gain a safe altitude to hand it over to me. So, I told him to give me the transmitter.
I immediately realized that the thing was "out of control" and asked what switch was the dual rates switch. He pointed, I switched it and it calmed down... a bit. I could fly it ok, but it was way beyond what he could clearly do. I flew a few orbits to get the feel of the plane, then landed it.
I helped him take out the dual rates, then I helped him re-adjust his throws to within what I thought was ok (no book with me at that point) and I flew it again. Much better, but not yet there. So, I landed it and removed yet more throw out of all controls, and flew it a third time. I though it was where he could now fly the thing, but I also added about 30% exponential. That did the trick.
I gave him back his transmitter and told him to fly it. So, up he went. The look on his face at that point made it all worth while. He was overjoyed that he could manage to fly it without fear.
If it's a sport plane, and you don't do 3D, then I suggest you leave out the dual rates, set the throws according to the specs, and add some exponential.
CGr.
03-23-2009 | 10:02 AM
#20
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From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: setting daul rates
I'm with Rodney, well kinda. I usually just use the low rates with about -35% to -40% expo on my surfaces (futaba/hitec). I also have high rates programmed in, but seldom use them. They also get negative expo.
Keep it simple so you're not switching back and forth.
Keep it simple so you're not switching back and forth.
03-23-2009 | 10:18 AM
#21
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From: Sailing in the Eastern Caribbean
RE: setting daul rates
IMHO having a TX with the option of dual rates and not using them is like buying a car with A/C and not using it.
Set them up and if the plane is too twitchy on that first flight switch to low rates and get more comfortable.
HOWEVER I do agree with the people who say that if you are careless enough to fly with the wrong rate selected then it can be a problem. Thats why you do a preflight check.
Set them up and if the plane is too twitchy on that first flight switch to low rates and get more comfortable.
HOWEVER I do agree with the people who say that if you are careless enough to fly with the wrong rate selected then it can be a problem. Thats why you do a preflight check.
03-23-2009 | 10:26 AM
#22
RE: setting daul rates
ORIGINAL: CGRetired
I currently have 8 glow planes, and as you can see by my signature, a few of them are high-performers (Pattern type planes). As MINN suggested, I follow with that suggestion. Not a one of my planes have dual rates. I don't fly 3D.
I set the throws based on the manufacturers recommendations, and leave it at that. I do use Exponential, though, which, to me, is much better than dual rates. You get a soft entry, with more radical if needed... but never exceeding manufacturers settings. And, there is not one maneuver that I can't do with the settings as they are without dual rates. It's just another switch to forget to use propery.
I was at the field a while back. A rather new guy was there with a Something Extra and an OS .55 AX engine on board. Nice plane. He bought it from another club member. The person he bought it from had throws way beyond manufacturers recommendations with dual rates. The guy that bought the plane put it up for "his maiden" and was all over the sky with it. I was totally surprised that he didn't crash it. I ran over to him and asked him if he needed help, and he yelled YES.. YES.. Please!!! He was at the point where he was unable to get ahead of the thing and was just moments from crashing.. he could not coordinate himself to even climb to gain a safe altitude to hand it over to me. So, I told him to give me the transmitter.
I immediately realized that the thing was "out of control" and asked what switch was the dual rates switch. He pointed, I switched it and it calmed down... a bit. I could fly it ok, but it was way beyond what he could clearly do. I flew a few orbits to get the feel of the plane, then landed it.
I helped him take out the dual rates, then I helped him re-adjust his throws to within what I thought was ok (no book with me at that point) and I flew it again. Much better, but not yet there. So, I landed it and removed yet more throw out of all controls, and flew it a third time. I though it was where he could now fly the thing, but I also added about 30% exponential. That did the trick.
I gave him back his transmitter and told him to fly it. So, up he went. The look on his face at that point made it all worth while. He was overjoyed that he could manage to fly it without fear.
If it's a sport plane, and you don't do 3D, then I suggest you leave out the dual rates, set the throws according to the specs, and add some exponential.
CGr.
I currently have 8 glow planes, and as you can see by my signature, a few of them are high-performers (Pattern type planes). As MINN suggested, I follow with that suggestion. Not a one of my planes have dual rates. I don't fly 3D.
I set the throws based on the manufacturers recommendations, and leave it at that. I do use Exponential, though, which, to me, is much better than dual rates. You get a soft entry, with more radical if needed... but never exceeding manufacturers settings. And, there is not one maneuver that I can't do with the settings as they are without dual rates. It's just another switch to forget to use propery.
I was at the field a while back. A rather new guy was there with a Something Extra and an OS .55 AX engine on board. Nice plane. He bought it from another club member. The person he bought it from had throws way beyond manufacturers recommendations with dual rates. The guy that bought the plane put it up for "his maiden" and was all over the sky with it. I was totally surprised that he didn't crash it. I ran over to him and asked him if he needed help, and he yelled YES.. YES.. Please!!! He was at the point where he was unable to get ahead of the thing and was just moments from crashing.. he could not coordinate himself to even climb to gain a safe altitude to hand it over to me. So, I told him to give me the transmitter.
I immediately realized that the thing was "out of control" and asked what switch was the dual rates switch. He pointed, I switched it and it calmed down... a bit. I could fly it ok, but it was way beyond what he could clearly do. I flew a few orbits to get the feel of the plane, then landed it.
I helped him take out the dual rates, then I helped him re-adjust his throws to within what I thought was ok (no book with me at that point) and I flew it again. Much better, but not yet there. So, I landed it and removed yet more throw out of all controls, and flew it a third time. I though it was where he could now fly the thing, but I also added about 30% exponential. That did the trick.
I gave him back his transmitter and told him to fly it. So, up he went. The look on his face at that point made it all worth while. He was overjoyed that he could manage to fly it without fear.
If it's a sport plane, and you don't do 3D, then I suggest you leave out the dual rates, set the throws according to the specs, and add some exponential.
CGr.
03-23-2009 | 11:16 AM
#23
My Feedback: (1)
RE: setting daul rates
Yeah, you should have seen that thing. The SSE is a very capable plane and this one was set up by the original owner to be very agressive, which it indeed was. As soon as I tried to make a simple turn to orbit into the pattern from where he was flying, I realized that I had a handful there.. and was wondering how he managed not to dump it before I came over to him.
His expression when I asked him if he needed any help was priceless. "Yes PLEASE!!" then said "I don't know what to do next!!!" Obviously, he was way behind the thing.
So, I managed to get the TX from him without it going in, though. The very first thing I did was drop the throttle to about half and then I tried to make that turn. WOW. I've flown some sensitive aircraft, but this one.. jeech.. Once I got it figured out, as I said, I landed it and we started to make adjustments. The dual-rates came out.. first thing.. then mechanical adjustments, like different holes on the servo end as well as on the control surface, and a little on the bit of end-points too. All three helped calm this thing down.
But, the combination of to much throw AND the dual rates, hell, the low rates were agressive as it was!!! It was fine after that.
Poor guy, though, passed away a few weeks back. Very nice man. Very funny.. good sense of humor. We'll miss him.
CGr.
His expression when I asked him if he needed any help was priceless. "Yes PLEASE!!" then said "I don't know what to do next!!!" Obviously, he was way behind the thing.
So, I managed to get the TX from him without it going in, though. The very first thing I did was drop the throttle to about half and then I tried to make that turn. WOW. I've flown some sensitive aircraft, but this one.. jeech.. Once I got it figured out, as I said, I landed it and we started to make adjustments. The dual-rates came out.. first thing.. then mechanical adjustments, like different holes on the servo end as well as on the control surface, and a little on the bit of end-points too. All three helped calm this thing down.
But, the combination of to much throw AND the dual rates, hell, the low rates were agressive as it was!!! It was fine after that.
Poor guy, though, passed away a few weeks back. Very nice man. Very funny.. good sense of humor. We'll miss him.
CGr.
