I've been looking around through several model plane sites and more that a few advertise that they'r trainer planes are very easy to fly. No experience necessary. My question is why do they say that. Since I've been reading through this forum I've seen it written more that a few times that if one has never flown before it's a real good idea to find an instructor and get help. Advertising NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY seems wrong to me.

Experience comes with flying.  Of course they will say no experience needed.. they are trainers and designed to get you the experience you need to fly RC.  </p>

We will preach the gospel of instructors and buddy box flying, which will get you in the air in the best, fastest, and safest mode.  After a few flights, all depends on your ability to catch on and learn, you will solo and then you are on your own to further your learning process and get that experience they say you don't need, but will in order to progress on to better flying aircraft.</p>

CGr.</p>

Learning to fly RC arplanes is about as challenging as learning to play a musicalinstrument. Hit the wrong string on your new guitar, its no big deal, the guitar doesn't turn into toothpicks. Not always true with the airplane. The iarplane might be a tad easier to learn, but much less forgiving when you screw up. So, I''ll say they are about even. The problem with the airplane is that you need to learn the entire song before you can land!

Some trainers are easier to fly then others, some people really do learn to fly by themselves. If you look at the top of the forum page you will see some sticky's, Ken has posted different trainers as they come out and get tested. Very good sticky too.
Like CGstated though, today with a good instructor and the buddy box learning to fly is a bunch easier then just a few years ago.
Feels like just a few years anyway!!!

You should get help with starting. Your airplane should be checked out and trimmed by someone with experience and set up correctly.
Taking off and flying in circles could possibly be accomplished by a total novice but you still need to get it down in one piece.
Learning on your own is possible but may just become expensive!

I won't say that trainers are easy for an inexperienced person to fly.  However, I will emphatically state that they are the least difficult.  Their high wing and dihedral give them the capability to self-right should you let go of the sticks.  Even the Hobbico Avistar and Hangar-9 Arrow advanced trainers have this capability built in.  Trainers are capable of very slow speeds with almost no stall tendencies.  They respond to control inputs in a slow and predictable manner, yet still offer enough maneuverability to evade trouble and even do some stunts.   </p>

In comparrison, the Goldberg Tiger-2 is considered by many instructors I've come in contact with to be the most forgiving and easiest plane to fly on the market besides a primary trainer.  They are, in fact, comfortable starting out new pilots with it.  But unlike the Avistar and Arrow advanced trainers, the Tiger won't self-right if inverted.  Instead, it will most likely go into a dive and crash instead.  There really is a big difference!</p>

NorfolkSouthern</p>

The problem with flying without instruction is that an airplane acts in 3 dimensions - People tend to think in two dimensions.

A car is controlled in ONE dimension. Right, left, forward and back all take place in the same plane. The only time a car goes up or down is when the road does.

So people often picture right, left, up and down, but they forget about the 3rd axis - ROLL.

If an airplane kept its wings level, flying would be MUCH easier - all you'd have to worry about would be right, left, up and down, but when you factor "roll" into the equation, it becomes a whole new ball game.

Why? Because if you roll 90° to the left and pull "UP" your plane will not go up, it will turn to the left. And due to aerodynamic forces, when turning (especially with a high-lift wing often found on trainers) the outer wing (which is already higher) creates more lift, so the plane tends to roll. If this goes unchecked (which it often does without instruction) the plane will roll PAST 90° - Nowthe rookie panics and pulls "UP" - which is actually "Down"

You can guess what happens next

Well Said Mike


Bob

Miek Said &gt; Why? Because if you roll 90&deg; to the left and pull "UP" your plane will not go up, it will turn to the left. And due to aerodynamic forces, when turning (especially with a high-lift wing often found on trainers) the outer wing (which is already higher) creates more lift, so the plane tends to roll. If this goes unchecked (which it often does without instruction) the plane will roll PAST 90&deg; - Nowthe rookie panics and pulls "UP" - which is actually "Down"

I had to laugh about this because I have just completed building my trainer and started flying lessons with an instructor. I have done this a few times already, were pulling up is actually the wrong move; thankfully haven't lost the plane but with out an instructor, I'd have nothing to fly and be fixing my mess.

It is an interesting ploy, to advertise no experience necessary when infact that is just not the case.

Hans

Yup, I've trained many people, and have watched many others being trained. I have also seen countless videos of beginners making this mistake. It is probably THE most common mistake made by beginners.

And the big problem is: This mistake usually happens the first time they try to turn. Without an instructor, the first turn is often their last.

I think that the biggest reason for advertising a trainer as "No Experience Necessary" is because typically a beginning pilot who has no experience should begin with a trainer.  Is it wrong to advertise this way?  I guess it depends on how you look at it.  They don't say that you can just pick the trainer up at your LHS and take off to the field and fly without hooking up with an instructor.  They just say you don't need the experience to fly it.</p>

Like most advertising, they leave lots out between the lines.  You just get to interpret it and figure that based on the advertisement, you're good to go.  Right or wrong, that's the game we play.</p>

If you're looking to start flying, and haven't in the past, be both smarter and safer than the advertiser and find an instructor to help you.  You won't go wrong that way.</p>

And the other most common mistake is over controlling. EVERY person starting out does this. In all the students I've trained I've never had one that didn't over control. This comes from two factors. First, most people tend to think in maximum, meaning they think they should move the stick all the way one direction to get anything to happen. So then "slam" the stick all the way to the left or right and then the plane just starts rolling over, and then they try to pull up like Mike said. The other reason is because the plane doesn't respond immediately. After they stop giving "maximum throw" they still have the problem. The beginning pilot will move the stick a little bit to the left of right, but when the plane doesn't immediately respond they start moving the stick more in that direction until they are back at maximum with the plane rolling over. Iteach my students to give it just a little bit of input and then WAITfor the plane to start responding. It might take a few moments before it starts to move. Once it has started the turn simply hold the stick until it's completed the turn.

Ken

Aye, long story short, their claim is a valid one.

Although you might still need the aid of an instructor/similator/etc., the fact is that aircraft in the trainer category are on the very bottom rung of the ladder of difficulty.

Everything in life has different difficulties, and R/C is no different.

Regardless of what kind of aircraft it is, a trainer is still an aircraft and needs to be handled accordingly.  True, it may be designed to fly with a minimum amount of experience, thus a trainer, it still needs to be flown.</p>

We constantly preach that new potential pilots really need the aid of an instructor.  Just place yourself in the front seat of a full scale aircraft, where your life depends on your ability to fly that aircraft.  So, you start out with a series of instructions with an experienced instructor pilot and, eventually you either learn to fly or you simply quit.  There are no other options, unless you are suicidal.</p>

With RC, though, because you are not sitting in the aircraft, the risk to life is not there.  So the risk is to the aircraft.  Unfortunately, some are willing to take that chance not thinking about the consequences of what could happen.  So, we always recommend that students, those new to RC flight, choose the right trainer for them.. (key word.. trainer) and then choose to work with an instructor with a buddy box.  To the instructor, the trainer is an easy fly.  To the student, it is not an easy fly.  </p>

I recall my first few flights with my trainer, at that time, it was a Tower 40 trainer with an OS 46 engine and Airtronics RD6000 radio.  I was, literally, all over the sky.  When I think back, I recall how difficult I thought all this RC stuff was and was not proud of my performance.  But, my instructor told me I did well.  I DID WELL???  Ok.. what's next?  Well, what was next was more of the same with that difficult to fly (for me) trainer.  </p>

Eventually, I did manage to solo (or I wouldn't be here, right?) and have since flown several different types of aircraft.  Sure, I have my favorites, Venus II, Skylark 70 (just to mention two) but, I've said it in previous posts.. I go back to my trainer and fly it.. to get back to basics.  To fly something that does not "fly itself".  Our modern, highly capable aircraft go where we point them.  Use the aileron, roll 30 degrees left,  let go of the stick, and voila, it rolls 30 degrees left... and stays there.  What's going on here?  That's the design.  You have to fly it!!! You want to turn?  Well, pull in some elevator.</p>

With a trainer, you roll 30 degrees left and let go and it self corrects to "straight and level".  How difficult is that?  To a student, it;s a potential life saver.  To more experienced flyers, it's getting back to basics.</p>

So, Trainers... how hard are they?   Well, It all depends on your perspective.</p>

CGr</p>

</p>

Because it sells more airplanes, Plain and simple, thats the bottom line and the reason every company that has ever sold some form of model airplane since the begining and even long before radio control has claimed their trainer is the easiest to fly ever.

Lots of the folks have learned on their own with no help and so sure you can do it 'absolutely' and most of the folks who have been around a while learned just that way on their own as there was no instructors just a 'half tank away'. But be assured in every case that method virtually every time resulted in longer time and more money as well as more frustration by the time they reached some reasonable level of airmanship.

Yup you can teach yourself.

John

I'm not so sold on the virtues of the standard trainer design. It takes alot of airspace for a self correction to actually happen, and they are corks in the wind. Straightening themselves out at the end of a turn is nice, but that's not so hard for new pilots to learn anyway. I've never seen the self correcting tendency help out in a dive. The trainers at my club all recommend the Hobbico Avistar or similar, while quite a few have learned on 4 stars and sticks successfully. Low rates in the setup and a slightly nose heavy CG makes most sport planes quite docile, and they all handle the wind better than classic trainers. The other upshot is that new flyers already have a plane that can perform stunts later, all they need is a different setup.

Jester, I agree that the claims of "let go of the sticks and a trainer will right itself" are highly exaggerated. My brother and I did some non-scientific testing and it just does not happen if the attitude of the plane is extreme.

We rolled it 90 degrees, or more, and released the sticks. Even starting VERY high it would have corkscrewed into the ground if we did not take any action. If we rolled it around 45 degrees it would eventually get itself pretty level but often it would be getting so far away we had to take action to keep it from going out of sight.

The only way I see any model truly 'self correcting' is one with some sort of co-pilot gadget. And everyone on RCU rips these gadgets to shreds.

Yes, any self-correcting design that really can save the airplane is going to make it a pain to fly. The one thing I can say for the dihedral wings is that if you pull too much roll and sideslip it, they do straighten it out quickly. Otherwise, most beginners are better off with an Avistar or even a stick with the rates set mild.</p>

I flew my first plane by myself it was a hobbyzone fire bird phantom. I Think any of the hobbyzone Zone 1 planes are pretty easy for anyone with absolutly no expeience. The firebird models are alittle more fragile due to the tail boom set up, It snaps pretty easily on a rough landing. but check out thier cubs. All the zone one planes have ACT, two sensors that detect ground and sky. if you have that mode on and the plane goes into a bad attitude. the sensors detect this angle and cut the throttle and level out the plane. Then it lets you take control of the plane. I had no problems flying this plane all by my self. I was then taught on a glow alpha 40.
 So i stand by the hobbyzone planes are pretty complete novice pilot friendly. Also relativly in expensive. the phantom i got was 60 dollars and ive loved it and havent had a problem with it and was belly landing it perfectly my first time.

I began on a NexStar Trainer and moved on to an Escapade and aFuntana.After about 6 months I took out the NexStar because my daughter is interested in learning the Hobby. Got it prepped and checked everything out before first flight as usual.After takeoff I realized I had forgotten about the quirks of this plane, like how if you don't do a long takeoff roll while correcting left they will do a pretty serious torque roll to the right. Got it in the air and sure enough, down and right it went. I corrected but didn't wait long enough for inputs to take hold before hauling stick max left, then overcorrecting right, etc. Fortunately no mishaps on the flight as I got it together and up in the air as stick memory came back.I also use a DX6i on the Escapade andFuntana with Expo dialed in and a 72 mhzFutaba with the NexStar, which didn't help matters.

The point is that trainers are easy to fly butexperience with the individual plane is require.,This only comes with time on it even for a pilot with experience.

I am also a fan of the Hobbyzone planes. But  I am not  a big fan of the ACT. It does little good at crash avoidance until the plane is as least tree top high or more. By the time a new person learns how to get the plane that high with out stalling or over controling, he is probably past the point of needing the ACT.  
We have a ministry at my church where we  teach people to fly Rc planes as a ministry tool. We use both electric and glow engine planes for training.  We start most beginners out on the Super Cub and we have several of them.  We also have at least one of almost every other Parkzone and Hobbyzone plane. I usually turn off the ACT on any of the planes that have it. The Super Cub is a great plane for begginers and I have taught dozens of people to fly with it. I have converted a couple of them to Futaba radios and use trainer boxes with them. I also have Fsone flight simulator that I use for practice on bad weather days and also to help total Rc newbies develop some muscle memory with the sticks. Even with this, I have yet to put any student in the air for their first flight that I haven't had to take over control of the plane at least once to keep it from crashing.  
If you are dead set on teaching yourself to fly, the Super Cub is a good, inexpensive place to start. It is very stable, tough, and cheap &amp; easy to repair. If it survives long enough to get you ready for your next plane, it will be easy to get rid. Super Cub is very popular, for a reason.  

After 8-10 years of "teaching" myself to fly....I highly recommend finding a club / trainer!

I've been re-kitting a Goldberg Eagle 2 for many, many years.......I honestly never had to much trouble getting it off the ground and flying simple circles or figure 8's. But getting it safley on the ground again turned out to be far more difficult than it looks, not sure if it was the imperfect surface of whatever field I was flying over....or nerves, but it only takes one little mistake when your that close to the ground to send your plane back to the bench......

This year I went to the AMA site and found that there was a club only 8 mins away from my home......went there and met a few of the guy's and the clubs president put me on the buddy box! After our 3rd or 4th session I solo'd......I now have 42 flights on my Eagle 2 without any issues, have a Top Flite Cessna 182 on the Bench, and one of the club members sold me a Dazzler 40 with motor for 25 bucks! I also learned that flyng with others is far more fun!! My only regret is wasting so much time re-kitting my Eagle 2 all by myself!

I'm finding the dihedral a bit of an annoyance, myself. I've got more than just a little full-scale stick time, and was privileged to fly a Link Flight Safety 727-block 400 for about three hours with a friend who was a tech there. 3 nice circuits and bumps with no issues. Maybe 30 years in every computer flight sim imaginable, too. If you understand aerodynamics and are an "experienced pilot' who can put a real plane anywhere you want and manage airspeed and pitch, realizing that you're pitching for airspeed and controlling climb or descent with the throttle most of the time...<div>
</div><div>..this will NOT help you (much) in RC, I've found...it's another 'world' entirely. <div>
</div><div>You are outside of the aircraft, and thinking 'backwards' (which is made easier and more automatic without thinking about it with some R/C simulator software - HIGHLY encouraged) - making a turn from downwind to base to final (thinking 'backwards' at the transition). You've cut power and are letting the aircraft descend as you make the turn. But the aircraft is 'opening' the turn - rolling out of it. So now you have to re-apply bank without over correcting and/or juggle the power (because with the turn opening your lift increases and descent lessens)... and all the while you don't have the 'sight picture' that makes this all automatic when you're IN the aircraft looking out the window, as to what to do.</div><div>
</div><div>Yup...I'm a newb too, and am learning it. It goes faster when you leave your 'pride' on the ramp...</div><div>
</div><div>-AoA</div><div>
</div></div>

I know what you mean....The first time I had to rebuild the wing of my Eagle 2...I made sure there was no dihedral. But I'm still fighting the Flat-bottom airfoil. I recommend a trainer with little or no dihedral and a symetrical airfoil ( only if you go the buddy box / trainer route). This way you'll have something that doesn't fight you as much after you've solo'd........My poor Eagle (bless it's little heart) just isn't very easy to throw around the sky like I want.

Hopefully this little Dazzler 40 I'm getting ready to cover will allow some more advanced aerobatics and still give me those slow to-a-crawl landings my Eagle 2 has me used too...

Hello! New to the forum, and new to airplanes!

I just wanted to turn the question around a bit.

If we say; how hard is it for a bigginner to fly (note; with a experienced helper, with a trainingcable maybe) a more advanced model, as the first plane?

Lets say a kyosho edge 540. Will this be entirely inpossible?

How big are the chances, that one that have some hours in the simulator, would manage to fly a edge 540, as the maiden flight?Note again; with an instructor.

// Daniel