hugger-4641

My Feedback: (6)

No it wouldn't be impossible, but generally speaking, the faster and more responsive a plane is, the harder it is going to be for a begginner to get a handle on.I have let acouple begginers fly buddy box on mySomethin Extra andmyT-28 because that was all I had with me when they showed up un-expectedly. I found myself having to take control a lot more often than I usually do with an Avistar or a Super Cub. Chances of success are betterif you start out with a stable and forgiving plane. (i.e. atrainer).

Imagine if you were going to teach someone to fly a real plane who had never been anywhere near a plane and knew nothing aboutflying. Do you think it would be safer and easier to teach them in a Cessna 172, or would you go ahead and try an F14 off a rolling carrier deck?

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Daniel first off welcome to the forum and the passion. Someday I would love to visit your beautiful country.

The answer to your first question is yes it is possible and folks sometimes will do something such as this with airplanes that are not appropriate airplanes to learn onHoweverWill it shorten your climb up the skills ladder and there is only one answer no it will not, You can count on it lengthening your training period considerably to any given skills level. It will take you far longer than it would have than by starting out with an appropriate airplane. Doing this makes an awful big assumption that you can find an instructor/mentor who will agree to do this and if you do then that fact alone puts that persons creditability in question. Its likely he just wants to learn how to fly your airplane on your dollar.

OK now to your last question and if I read correctly you ask if it you could maiden the airplane on the first flight if you were buddy boxed with an instructor. This one is an emphatic no and it would be very fool hardy. Making a first flight of a new airplane is risky stuff and many maidens I have done can turn into very difficult flights indeed drawing on every skill I can muster and to expect someone to deal with a non pilot on a buddybox and still test/tweek an airplane is just way outside the box.

If someone comes to me and wants a test flight and I choose to do it there is no question it will be with just me and sometimes that may be more than just one flight. Frequently getting an airplane properly set up can take more than just one quick flight. If they are not agreeable to that then they will have to look else where.


John

crosswinds_swe

John, thanks for your reply!

Firstly, Your more than welcome over here!=) And it have always been a dream of mine to visit the US, hey, i even have a 2.4 meter 20 dollar bill, hangin in my living-room

I have now understood that its very hard to fly this model for a first timer, what is it that make it that much harder?Is it the speed? Is it the rudder´s qucik response?

My instructor / and the guy on the other end of the trainer cord, is my father, he has about 25 years of experience with rc airplanes!

So i hope he doesnt use me for my money.. And for the record, by maiden flight, i mean my own, not the plane, he will ofcourse dial it in for me!
But i have not decided yet wich airplane, my trainer will be. I just wanted to discuss it with you guys, just to know what exactly makes a model like that be so much harder then a trainer, when doing the same manouver.. And now i understand thats ita great difference! But dont know what yet
Ive actually just bought the edge 540, becouse its such a beutiful airplane, andfly it when i have some experience.

But know i understand that my silent idea of trying that first, was not very good :P

jetmech05

You can teach someone to fly on anything......with a buddy box......but the student will take longer to learn...he doesn't learn much when all he hears from is instructor is "I've got it"...
What makes trainers...trainers is, not a speedy airplane...gives the student time to think.....not real quick in the roll, same reason.....and tough beacause you know all those landings won't be smooth.....
As far as self correcting goes I remember the adjustment I made after I solo'd with my second airplane...that I almost always had to use opposite ailerons to get back to wings level.......
There is no better teacher than stick time...the students stick time that is...not the instructors after he saved the plane.....
to answer your question are trainers easy to fly....positively no....not at first.......neither was walking was it?.........now a days a trainer is for those lazy days when you just want to shoot a bunch of touch and goes.........
Good Flying to all

JARTHY

After reading all of this thread, i'm going to my Local Club.
You've all scared me out of being a young know it allup-start... thank you.

Josh.

Clay Walters

I can say that in my opinion; the very best trainer on the market now is Realflight 4.5 as long as your computer and video system can handle it. The controller it comes with is just like the real deal and as long as you use it to learn to actually fly and not just play around the skills you develop translate to the actual day at the flying field very well.

Before the simulators became so realistic a complete novice would be better served with an instructor and a Dynaflite Butterfly or Sig Kadet Sr. While those are still very nice airplanes to fly the simulator has made them less "necessary".

Regards,

Clay

Korps

I think it is possible, but the chances that it might not end that good, is very high. I solo'd the second time I put my hands on a Tx (previous time I had 5 min flying time with my buddies BH Super Air) and yes I taught myself on the sim for about a month. I started out with a H9 Ultra Stick 40 with the controls set very mildly and after a couple of flights I put the throws too full. I now fly a 3D Edge 540 as my second planewith a 60 2 stroke ASP upfront - after about 10 flights it stillscares the heck out of me! The throws are only set to about 65-70% at this stage but it has an amazing roll rate when you push the plane.So yes it is possible, but for a beginner not nearly ideal...your instructor will be doing more of the flying than you will. It is a great type of plane when you are pretty confident with your first plane and is great fun. But you don't want to be concentrating on keeping the plane from crashing the whole time instead of learning to perfect the basics - if you understand what I mean.

But keep the Edge - you will love it later on.

Nathan King

[sm=what_smile.gif]

As a classical pianist, I can tell you that learning to fly a model airplane is MUCH easier.

To the original poster, the model manufacturer wants to sell airplanes. How many do you think they'd sell if the box said that joining a club, finding an instructor, and embarking on a learning process that lasts months is strongly recommended for the safe utilization of the product? While it is possible to learn by yourself, the process is usually very frustrating and expensive. This is why we recommend an instructor.

jester_s1

What makes the more advanced models more difficult to fly is their maneuverability. Trainers and even many basic sport models are designed to "want" to fly upright and straight. You have to make them roll and pitch. Because of that, they are more difficult to over control and get into a bind with. Also, the airfoils on trainers and basic sport models are difficult to stall and very forgiving. They also ensure a slow flying airplane that you can mentally keep up with. If you get a trainer going too slow the nose starts to drop smoothly and the wings may rock a little. If you stall an Edge or most scale warbirds, it flips to one side and heads for the ground. Essentially, trainers and basic sport models optomized aerodynamically to let you make every flying mistake imaginable and still not damage the airplane. Anything short of flying it into the ground won't hurt it.

crosswinds_swe

Thank you very much for your information!

Now i have a bit more understanding of what the difference are!

Great post!

Dumptrucker

Your right about finding an instructor. I wish there was one aound here I could get help from. I got my mini super cub up and flying but I have trouble keeping it up long enough to learn anything about flying it. This thing WANTS to fly. It just needs someone who knows what they'r doing at the controls. I've already done more with it than I ever did with my J-3 Piper.
Yesterday I had it up pretty high but it flew over some tree tops and I lost control of it. I found it way off in the open field across the road. The weeds there are waist high and no damage was done. Also if I could learn not to be so nervous when it's flying I think I might do better. I think I tend to over react on the controls. Someone said I need practice. They were right. I need lots of practice. I hope I can get the practice without wrecking my plane. So far I've been pretty fortunate in that except for the J-3 Piper cub I have. I finaly got a new fuselage for that and got evrything transfered from the old one. I think I'l hold off on trying to fly that one for a while till I get better with my mini cub.
There are two model airplane clubs not too far from here. I tried e-mailing them to ask when I could come out to they'r field but couldn't get an answere from either of them. I'm kind of relunctant to just drive in uninvited.

mmn

My Feedback: (4)

Hi

I'm a beginner with about 20 - 30 flights under my belt and I can give you my perspective.

1) Clubs aren't typically real good about email, keeping a web site current, etc., but they do want amd need new members and they will welcome you and help you out. They probably also have someone who is able to instruct and help with trimming, landing, etc.

2) I've found a simulator is very helpful in practicing technique - especially when in trouble. Well worth the cost to me.

3) Nothing, but nothing, beats or takes the place of practice. But you have to know what you are doing wrong in order to correct it. Again, instructor or experienced flyer.

Regards,
Michael

jetmech05

run don't walk to your nearest clubs, dumptrucker...I'm sure they will help you out...take a plane and ask lots of questions....all a club is, is a place where the friends you haven't met yet hang out

jester_s1

If they won't answer emails call them. Very few clubs have and paid staff, so everyone who does anything does so as a volunteer. Volunteers are often not the best communicators but they are there for you.

Dumptrucker

Thank you for your advise. As soon as I get time I'm going to the nearest club and get help.

crosswinds_swe

More life to an old post =)

You guys are going to kill me, but ive just ordered an blackhorse extra 300 GP

But im going to fly the first times with my dad as an instructor with buddy link system!

and i understand that im way over my head with trying to fly the extra 300, just couldnt behave my self with the buybutton :P

jester_s1

Just save it until you are flying the circuit and landing well with your trainer plane. That plane can be super wild or moderately tame depending on the setup.

crosswinds_swe

Hello.

Im really excited to try the airplane later on.. And scared too.. But i understand that an extra is far more difficult, than an trainer. but then thing i cant understand is, that people makes it seem "digital" its either on or off. ThereĀ“s nothing in between, that i can not understand. Will the model be so terrible to handle in lower speeds? I Understand that its a far more speedy model, then the trainer, but couldnt it handle a bit lower speed than full ("ON")? =)

timcat26

The Extra, if handled properly, flows lower and slower much better than a trainer. The "if handled properly" is the key here. Much depends on the control throws you set it up with and the radio you're using (expo or not). If I were going to fly this as a second plane I'd make sure to use the servo arm holes and control surface holes that would give less response and then move them to get more responsive as I got more comfortable. You could also use a digital radio with high/low rates, expo and servo travel control to accomplish this.

The thing about the Extra or any plane like this is that it will go exactly where you point it, good or bad. A trainer will try and right itself, this one will not.

crosswinds_swe

Firstly! Thank you very much! This really made a lot of sense to me. Atlast i got it explained to me!

Im going to use the DX7 radio. I think i can set the servo trows there. Its that what you are referring to?

timcat26

Yes, a DX7 will allow you to lessen the servo travel which limits the percentage of the servo's total travel, or movement, capability. You can also set high/low rates which define what percentage of the overall travel of the servo you would like to use for low rates. I set up a new plane with 60% travel on low rates (on all control surfaces only, not throttle) and 100% for high rates. The DX7 should allow you to designate one switch to use as a "master" high/low switch. I use a DX6i and I selected the aileron switch for my high/low because it was located close enough to where my other radios had them that I was comfortable using it.

After all this is set, I then use the Expo to soften the servo movement from the center or neutral position. This slows the servos reaction to control inputs for the first portion of your stick movement and makes the plane's reactions smoother. You can still get full control by moving the sticks to the outer edge of their travel should you need it. Most recommend 10-40% Expo settings for Ailerons (1 or 2) Rudder and Elevator. If I were taking out a plane like the Extra I would set low rates at 60% and Expo at 40% to start (going from a trainer). If it seemed sluggish or mushy I would bring down ( in this case this means going to 70% travel from 60 and Expo form 40 to 30, for example) Expo and Travel in 10% increments until it felt right to me as a beginner with the plane.

Lastly, these planes take off and land differently than a trainer. For a tail drager you want to take off with some up elevator to avoid nosing it over and getting a prop strike of flipping the plane as the tail lifts until you have enough speed to get safely off the ground. With a trainer you want to use a little down elevator to keep it on the ground until it has enough speed to take off without doing a torque roll to the right. You correct on the ground as it gathers speed so it will take off without rolling.