Hogflyer, that is way over my head..

(Hogflyer, careful you are giving away all the secrets garnered from many decades of flying models and training countless beginners on their trainers.  And we just tell them that we are just trimming it out)

To all the newbies (less than a decade or two) - Nevermind.</p>

Will try! When I was learning to fly I messed up and had the alerons backwords and had to get the plane back by rudder and elevator! That was tough! Bob



Remember it easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission!

Excellent posts!

I'll bet you learned something about careful approaches with that one!! Wphew.. must have been an interesting few minutes lining that one up for a safe landing!!

CGr.

Something that everyone missed that cost me my first plane was.. Learn to tune your engine..If you are on a teainer it may be your first plane. So learning to tune the engine may save you alot of trouble down the road. If the engine is not running you just learn to deadstick...Just my small thoughts..lol

I said that of a Kadet LT-40 once to a friend, that I thought Ineeded another, better plane. He proceeded to fly left and right rolling circles with my poor underpowered pathetic trainer. Handing the tranmitter back to me he smiled. winked and said...."It aint the plane!"

T

It is a misconception that trainers are easier to fly. Like bicycles with training wheels, trainers are harder to crash, but once you have some basic skill they are not easier to fly. To the OP and anyone else considering this question: if there is someone at the field who will let you buddy box with their stick or 4 Star, go get yourself a taste of sport flying. Nothing is easier to fly and control than the classic "2nd airplanes," although they are easier to crash because they aren't designed to save you from yourself. What I've learned is that to build piloting skill, you need to be flying the airplane that makes whatever skill you are working on the easiest. So if that is flying the circuit and landing, then stick with the trainer. If it's loops and rolls, then a more neutral handling plane is in order. The one exception to that is not to use your first flying season time on a build. If you have basic control down and already have a sport plane, then don't be afraid of it. But if you will have to take your hobby time to put one together, then continue learning on your trainer as best you can until winter.

I have and fly lots of planes. The hardest one to me to fly now is my kadet 40.lol.. I use it for a bomb drop. I fly mostley at home on my 25 acres. So when all the neighbor kids are around they like for me to drop the parachute men and mini marshmellows.. I have the hardest time relearning how to land that floaty plane..lol..It does not harrier land.lol

I have never flown a trainer so I have no idea how it flies or when you know when to move on. I do however think that, IF you are honest with yourself, you will know when you are pretty good with a trainer. I think every person judge by different levels and things. For one person being capable of handling a trainer at a lower level - will feel they have mastered it - because perhaps they are only interested in doing lazy circuit flying and just enjoy doing low and slow fly bys. Some peole will have an higher level at which they judge whether the plane has been mastered - because they want to go extreme with planes (3D and fast hard flying for example).

In other words, I think, it's what type of pilot you are which will determine if you have mastered it. I think it has more to do with - when have you mastered a certain type of flying. This then also leads to what the planes capabilities are. There are too many variables that influence an accurate answer I think.

In my opinion, being able to do crazy, nuts things in trainers is great, Ido all kinds of stuff with my old trainer i shouldnt. But in reality, why in the world would somebody who will never fly 3D, nor has the desire, need to learn to do these things. If a guy is going to be taking off, flying circuits, occasional loop and roll, why the heck would he need to learn the other stuff. I say, its all based on what you plan to do, if what I mentioned is all you plan to do, and you are proficient and can perform landings takeoffs, without any problem, and regualr flight is a breezy, move on if youd like. You will get all kinds of opinions on all this stuff, but if you have the basics of flight downm taking off, landing basic flying, loops and rolls without losing alt. and exiting a loop on the same level no problem. Then go for it. Everyone has thier ideas of what is right, I suggest taking the bits and pieces of info that will help you and use them. Not to mention, some of the older guys that helped me when I was starting, while they have the most and best info, sometimes old habits die hard. IF an engine booklet says, run the engine rich and at full bore for a tank of gas to break her in, do it.... The technology andinstructions are there for a reason, but since they had been doing things one way for years they had me do it their way, ruined some equipment that way. Bottom line, when you are flying it solo with no trouble and are able to do the stunts and things you plan on doing for a long time, move on. Some people seem to think that a buddy box only works on a trainer.... get a second plane buddy box her unitl you can fly her, jsut like you trusty ol trainer!

Yes it was a tough landing I bent the nose gear and broke the prop but that was it! I had started with a tower hobbies 4 channel and switched to a 7 c so I could not just get the plane up high and switch it on the bottom. So I was in trouble plus being very new at flying! I knew I was in trouble when I went to go left and it went right, Right over my new pickup! Lucky I was the only one out there. I just had to forget the alerons and fly rudder till I got it back, It still is in my hangar and except for that one flight has been a great airplane! I now know that if you push the stick right and the right aleron goes down its a bob! Bob




Want to keep from crashing? Land higher!

Gary-

Glad we agree-

I fly out of Ft Bend-a bit closer to where I live and more out in the open.


Larry

great thread all. ive been soaking up a lot of the info from these threads and post before i pull the trigger and buy a trainer. i have zero flight experience thus far (have quite a bit of ground experience with monster trucks, some truggy &amp; buggy).

im kinda lucky that there is middlesex county r/c flyers is about 1/2 mile from my house so i'll hook up with them at some point.

great info here, great bunch.

hi keep that trainer around- (it will fly better with a straight wing or you can add anheadral-it will fly better )when you are away from the hobby for a while -be it weather-or your personel life-it will be real good to get your fingers working the TX again- and then you can get back to you expensive fast stuff i find planes that require a lot of assembly time at the field- cowls -cabaines-seem to have the effect of reducing flying time and you get rusty -from not doing as much actual flyingjust my two cents

I think that if you can do rolling circles with a trainer, youshould've moved on LONG ago.  However, I agree with the statement thattrainers aren't the easiest to fly.  I think that the easiest plane tofly is a great 3D plane set-up on low rates.  They're very responsive,but not twitchy.  They go where you point, but they're not unstable. They slow for landing incredibly well, and float for miles.  In noorientation do they fly poorly.  I think that your first two planesshould be hard to crash (Trainer/Ultra Stick type plane).

Iguess the real way to answer the OP is like this: if you think you'reready....you are.  A second plane isn't any harder to fly....it's allabout confidence.  If you BELIEVE you'll be fine, you will be (untilyou get to Warbirds ).  That's the way half of life works.

CastorTroy answer this one.....a drivers license.....I don't plan on ever driving on an interstate...or in a city, I live on a farm...and only drive to the general store in my very small village...I don't see the need to learn how to control my car above 30 MPH...or what a stop lights colors mean....do you think you'd want to drive on roads with people like that?
Same with RC....I don't fly 3D, I don't have the desire....I fly scale like with scale like areobatics......but there is no promise that your aircraft will always be right side up...won't stall or get hit......If you can't fly into a situations at will, you surely can't fly out of it when you have too.....
I have crewed alot of full scale airplanes.....on a pilot's check ride......the new guy would but a newpaper up over his windshield and close his eyes.....the pilot in command would turn the aircraft a few times then put us in a weird attitude like 45 deg of bank and 15 deg nose down...
ok new guy open your eyes and fix it.......we never planned to fly in that attitude but the drivers knew how to get out of it....
always learn all that you can.....stalls......inverted flight.....unusal attitude recovery both going away from you and toward you.....which is areobatics....you may save yourself your favorite airplane some day.
sometimes you can't plan for things.....near my field a year ago or so a factory that made gas additives blew up....all the aircraft that were flying were hit with the shock wave...some it turned 90 deg in the roll.....no planes were lost...cause the guys were good pilots......then they had to dodge debris.......

Here's my 2&cent;<div></div><div>I first got into this hobby about 15 years ago. I started with a Tower Trainer and learned to fly it. My instructor at the time had the same mindset as many of you in that he didn't think I was ready to move on until I could basically do very nice legit aerobatics: perfect loops, axial rolls with no altitude loss, fly inverted for a tank of fuel, etc. And I practiced and practiced on those things until I could do them, and do them well. By the time I moved onto my 2nd plane (a .40 Patriot) I was more than confident in doing anything and everything with my trainer. However, what I found out is that a lot of the things I learned on my trainer, I had to unlearn on the Patriot. The Patriot was a much more capable plane and it was sooooo much easier to do aerobatics and things of that nature that my naturaltendencieslearned on the trainer actually hindered me at first.</div><div></div><div>Now stuff like still being able to get out of trouble, being able to take off and land, and basic skills still served me VERY well, but the more advanced maneuvers I learned on the trainer ended up frustrating me a lot at first.</div><div></div><div>Now fast forward to present day. During high school and into college I got out of the hobby as I had other priorities. This year, after about a 10 year hiatus, I got back into the hobby. I started off with a trainer, and picked everything back up pretty quickly. And now I'm ready to move onto a new plane. However, I'm moving on not being able to do perfect axial rolls on the trainer or fly inverted all day long because of my last experience. I am comfortable landing/taking off in gusty cross winds, I can place it perfectly on the field where I want to, can get myself out of trouble, and am confident everytime I go up in it.</div><div></div><div>My rolls aren't perfectly axial, I have a hard time holding her inverted, but for me I don't want to make it do something its not designed to do.</div><div></div><div>It would be like using a monster truck to do an indy race. It could be done, but I'd rather use something designed to do it.</div>

Ithink it has something to do with a vacuum cleaner...

You've mastered a trainer when you can drag the fin on the runway about 50 feet, then get the plane back in the air.

Inverted for a full tank on a trainer?     Is he out of his mind???
 
Hell I fly my lt40 for almost 40 minutes on a tank..If I had to do that inverted all at one time I would find a new instructer...It's hard as hell to just get my weak lt 40 to fly inverted at all...lol...

As I said in this post before......if you can fly an LT-40 inverted for the whole pattern...then you can fly anything inverted......once you can do it for a lap around the pattern...you can do it for a whole tank...but why unless you just want to......IMHO you have demo'ed mastery of inverted flight with a trainer, in a lap around the pattern......low level high speed inverted passes is above mastery.

the only time I ever saw someone have to unlearn something in RC was a student of mine who was a sail plane pilot...he had to unlearn what control surface to go to first and to add throttle........I've seen alot of folks have to modify what they knew...but not unlearn it.

this has been an outstanding post...as it has caused many of us to stop and think....I wonder how many trainers will get dusted off this week end for a go in the pattern

My trainer won't sit long enough to collect dust.

Maybe modify is a better word than unlearn it. All my point was, that for me anyways, initially it was a little frustrating flying the next plane because to do many of the moves on the trainer was different than on the Patriot. Basically I felt like I wasted time doing them on a trainer, rather than moving on once I was confident flying the trainer competently.
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What happened is you took another lesson on the learning curve. Over time, as experience grows and the number of aircraft flown increases you'll learn they all fly and feel different yet there is a similarity to them. It's a matter of learning how to deal with the individual flight characteristics of that particular aircraft and adjusting to it, like jumping from a quickie pylon racer to a high-start launched glider, pattern plane, trainer etc. They all fly differently and require a different touch to fly, but with experience you can hop between them and not think about it.

Hogflyer