Ive seen this term thrown around alot but never have seen something to quantify what it means. Is there a measure, or a goal to know when you have mastered a trainer?

Or do you just know?

I was told that when you can try and crash it and you still can't crash it. Sarcasm, but you understand. I realized at one point that nothing I did scared me with the trainer. I was trying all kinds of crazy stuff, even landed it in the pits one day. I was alone so it was ok.

When every takeoff and landing is a breeze.  The upper air stuff, I guess as long as you dont make mistakes, and you can comfortably get yourself out of trouble. 

Uhhh, landing in the pitts is never OK. You might want to rethink that one.

The guys may not appreciate it.

When you can hoover it and do a tail touch you are ready to move on.....

When you have learned every aerobatic maneuver that trainers can do and it's been boring for awhile. That said, all those maneuvers are easier on a sport plane, so in a way sticking with a trainer holds you back from learning. If you already have a sport plane, I'd say move on to it as soon as you stop bouncing your landings and generally beating up your trainer. If you don't already have one, fly your trainer until you're bored to tears with it.</p>

Hover it? Is that a goal of a trainer? Perhaps I missed the point.

Good one...

Is hoovering really flying ?

I'd say when you can get your trainer to make pancakes for you for breakfast, that's when you just know you've mastered your trainer

Seriously though, one thing a guy once told me I tend you agree with, is when you can fly the pattern inverted, with a trainer, which wants to fly right side up pretty badly, you're flying it pretty well. Maybe not mastered, but at least on track.

Be careful though.

No, no need to do any rethinking. All alone and nothing to damage but my plane if something went wrong.

I don't know too much about vacuum cleaners, but most trainers can do a bit more than just fly sloppy circles around the field.  Some will fly outside loops in close to stock configuration, but many have difficulty in doing simple things like spins.

The first thing to change is the center of gravity.  Trainers are designed to more or less fly in a self recovery mode.  To do this, the airplanes have the CG moved forward with the decalage to pick up the nose out of a dive without the pilot doing anything.  So move the CG back to the rearmost position shown on the plans, fly and retrim.

Increase control throws seems obvious.

The next easy thing to do to improve the airplane is reduce the decalage.  That means putting the wing and tail on the same angle of incidence and decreasing the down thrust on the engine.  You can also change the wing to another if you really want to experiment (it's surprising how often a wing survives a crash).

When you cannot perform the maneuvers you want to perform because the capabilities of the plane are insufficient, its time to move on.

Brad

when you can fly it in 18+ mph winds in a reasonable controlled mannor

Everyone will have an opinion on this here's mine...
You have master your trainer when......you grease in 95% of your landings
                                                                      You can fly the entire pattern inverted
                                                                      you can do more than one roll without loosing altitude
                                                                      and lastly you feel that you have gone just about as far as you can go with your trainer...
Whatever you do hold on to your trainer for those days when you just wanna be lazy and shot a tank full or two of touch and go's

I have a feeling he learned in those winds, so that probably doesn't count.

GaryHarris:

Nobody knows what a trainer can do, until an experienced pilot pushes it to the limit.

My instructor used to do things with my trainer, that I have never been able to repeat!!

He did not endangered anyone, never folded a wing, or crashed the noble machine.

For me, the graduation test can be three basic maneuvers, performed each in 10 mph crossed wind:

1) A slow, but perfectly axial roll that takes the whole lenght of the field.
2) A perfectly round loop with same level in and out.
3) A greaceful landing on the center of the strip with soft touch down directly in front of the pilot.

Jumping to a more advanced model is nice and challenging, but it has nothing to do with having or not mastered your trainer yet.

A trainer is to keep forever, for you, and for friends that just begin.

It was more like 30 mph winds yesterday.. They just popped up and I was really worried that I was gonna crash. Does flying backwards count?

There is never a time when one truly MASTERS an aircraft, of any type. Sooner or later, ALL mechanical items will fail, airplanes included, leaving you gasping at the mess made on the field. There are points of being skilled, and being comfortable, but one cannot master a machine, only maintain it. The best "experts" at any given motorsport, can fail at any given time. If you have gotten bored with a trainer, switch to a more competitive plane, for a while, then go back to the trainer, and see if you don't crash it. True, while a trainer is just that, a trainer... it has its place in the sport, and one should NEVER get rid of their trainer... I have found them to be "hones" so to speak.

I doubt Ill be able to many tricks with my plane.  It barely will do a torque roll.  (Kadet LT-40)  But I am comforatble with it, even somewhat confident.  Touch and goes, 3 dead sticks so far, no problem.  Ive been soloing for 4 weeks now.  Ill never get rid of the Kadet.  It just flys so sweet.

My next plane is about finished.  Its a Goldberg Eaglet 50 with an OS FS .30.  I took an inch out of the dehidral so it should be a little more of a sport plane than the Kadet.  I had started building a 4*60 but pulled off the build the Eaglet since I wanted a smaller trainer to carry around just in case I feel like stopping at the field after work or something.

When I finish the 4*60 Ill start building the SSE.  I figure Ill be fully ready for the SSE when its finished.  Maybe 6 months.

Even though I havent been flying very long, I notice that moves are coming naturally to me with having to think about them.  I think racing RC cars for 17 years may have helped me in a way.  And hurt me in a way.  Im still over controlling at times.

But yesterday when that wind kicked in I thought I was toast.  I couldnt idle it in and the gusts were really weird.  They would lift the plane, then try to slam it to the ground.  My first reaction was to get it down asap but I didnt panic.  If things wernt just right, Id circle around again, and again, and again.  lol  The wind wasnt going to slow down and there was no chance of making a pretty landing.  I landed in the grass just to be safe.  As soon as I touched down the wind blew it over. lol

That was the last flight of the day.  All the other guys saw fighting that wind and they started packing up to leave. 

It is if you're Bob Hoover-ing it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZBcapxGHjE

shhhhh dont spoil the kansas secret.

and yes please do not advance to your next plane before you can torque roll your trainer (major sarcasim)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5VOdjM0kkc

Hey my trainer has never made me pancakes, and I like pancakes! Mine was an arf from China, it makes sweat and sour chicken! I think you will just know! it is when you are just getting very bored with it because you have done all that it can do! But still like getting it out and just doing some lazy Sunday flying with it and the grandkids! Bob


Remember it is easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission!