glowplugboy

My Feedback: (17)

This gentleman has continued to embody the self-contained, resourceful, "I can do this on my own" hardy individualism. No club instructor or club needed here. The joy is in taking off, flying for a few moments until it gets too far away to know which way it is going, crash, look for the wreck, rebuild, fly for a few moments, and so on. As the safety officer at my county run club field, we have "plug and play" r/c'ers come out all the time. "I'm happy to help you with that", I say to them. "Takes about four hours to learn". "Ahhh, I can do this. I don't need anybody's help" is the response. It's going to take off, roll to the left, and crash" I say. "I can do this, I don't need any help" is the reply. So, the plug and play takes off, rolls to the left, crashes, the newbie picks up his destroyed toy and never returns. Time for an r/c helicopter or car now.... LHS's and Tower loves these folks.

Gooseman240

Wow Charlie,

That is a catchy tune considering the year that this was written, quiet humorous actually!!

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Glowplugboy I have had the same experience with "don't need no instructor" types also. Latest one has me stumped though, a doctor who has the latest greatest RC heli $ can buy, he joined AMA, joined the club, has called and asked for help several times, and been to the field twice in 2 years! It seems he thinks he should be able to be a pilot just by having someone explain it to him, or maybe the "laying of hands" on his thumbs or something. We did get him on a trainer plane one time, after he had destroyed his 40 glow trainer trying to fly it in his subdivsion on his own, he said it was to hard and went out and bought the heli!

glowplugboy

My Feedback: (17)

I know, I know. This is a new phenomena in the hobby, and it's growing rapidly. "Back in the day", when all models were built from kits with considerable time and money invested, newbies wanted to be instructed because failure meant starting all over again and delaying the fun in some cases for several months. As a seventeen year old, I could not afford to crash my Falcon 56 by doing it on my own. ARF's and the new marketing trend of plug N plays have taken away any sense of ownership or emotional connection with the model..... "Hey, I just take it out of the box, charge it, and go fly it. If it goes WHAM! well, it was fun for a weekend." The mail order or LHS got its one shot and these consumers, and they won't be back. Our "hobby" is rapidly being reduced to a consumable, where actual knowledge, experience and appreciation of the sport and life-time passion it can be has been pushed out of the learning equation.

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

I agree, I used to think these one shot wonders were not really good or bad for the hobby. They want instant success and gratification and probably move from one thing to the next and end back up playing video games. But recently I think I see more guys at big fly ins and rc shows trying to fly 50cc gassers that have not paid their dues and are not safe. They take off, don't use the rudder and end up over the pits or even the spectators, especially at events with a cross wind. If you confront them they say they didn't know they had drifted that far off center line on take off! Some people are going from mastering a park flyer to big gas without developing enough skills first on the old 40 and 60 glow planes. Have yet to see a CD confront one of these guys much less ban them from the event for the rest of the day. It is ok not to know how to handle all the conditions one may encounter at the flying field or an event, it is not ok not to know that you don't know!

glowplugboy

My Feedback: (17)

I agree. There is no longer a "system of progression" when it comes to matching one's current abilities to a proper airframe. I flew a Falcon 56 as my first trainer. The Falcon would now be considered a good second airplane, but back then it was a primary trainer. Next, I flew an Ugly Stick which was more neutral, did great aerobatics, yet still landed like a trainer. Then, on to a sport low wing, which in my case was a Sig Kougar. From there I progressed into pattern, big birds, r/c combat, 3D, and so on. 33 years later, I am still finding new and interesting ways to enjoy the hobby. The hobby is marketed now with very little progression of skill being considered. Combine that with soaring egos and a large credit card limit, and as you suggest, you get a guy flying a 1/3 scale Extra when he should be still learning on a Stick.

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

I do have a few arf's but my builds are my pride and joy's! Noboby has the same color sceam as them and I do take better care of them then the arf's why not the arfs can be replaced by a trip to the hobby store and an evening or two! I like building the the kits and making them stronger where i think they are weak. When I crash an arf its oh well, when i crash a build its %$#**&^ ^%$&*#@% Love to build if I built only arf's i would have a thousand of them! Working on the planes is my R&R and I do have over fifty of them mostly builds! But fyling is only part of this for me the building being the other, both important to me and my fun in the hobby! I know allot will say do not have time to build, I just cut out TV and now have found hours in a week to build! still love sports just listen to them on the radio while building! Bob

Charlie P.

Had something similar happen earlier this month. I was working the flight line at our IMAA Fun Fly. An out-of-state pilot shows up with a 100" Ziroli B-25 with twin 26cc engines - beautiful airplane. As he's preparing to start up the ailerons are twitching. I walked over and asked if he had range checked the model that day. He says "She always does this when the batteries are just charged. It will pass after a minute." It's a 2.4GHz system so I figure he's not being hit. My Futaba doesn't do that, but I don't know much about other designs. When he gets the engines going the split elevator on just the starboard side is now flopping 1/2" as well as the aileron twitch. I stopped him and said "I would not fly that model in this condition. You are "at your own risk" if you go to the flightline". He says it's: "not a problem." I went to the line boss and told him that model was not right. Since the take-off was away from the tents and crowd we allowed him to continue.

After a 500 ft roll he horsed it up on the second bounce at a 45º angle. At 80 ft the right engine quit and he gave hard left rudder (opposite of the pattern) and pulled the nose vertical. Two seconds later the left engine stopped and it stall turned to the left nose down towards the ground. And then dropped nose first into a big pile of small pieces.

Post crash investigation determined this was the third flight on the model. Also that this pilot has a reputation of flying on the prop and checkbook. I fretted on this one since as club safety officer I could have grounded the plane; but didn't want to spoil the guy's weekend (he traveled a long way to get there). Ultimately, we're all responsible for ourselves, but if he'd have dropped that on a kid in a stroller . . .

Rule of thumb: A problem spotted on the ground NEVER gets better on it's own in the air.

The Juice

My Feedback: (1)

It seems the consesus is somewhat the same as to his success. I sure cant help but to enjoy his enthusiasm and humor towards the hobbie though. I just did a similar rebuild of my alpha after a battery failure, good luck to you.

supergeek1000

Thank you

I have really enjoyed your adventure. Until I finish my current build I am grounded. It seems the wife wants all the closet doors installed in our unfinished house before I can play.

Thank you again. Look forward to hearing the rest of the story..

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Kennelmaster's last post was 7/29, looks like the rebuild may have been to much. To bad, his stories were alot of fun. We will never know if maybe he would have lasted longer with help. Hopefully, he is just busy and will get back to it.

sportrider_fz6

that's what they all say

JW0311

I've been sitting here looking for a place to post what happend to me today and I think I found it. Have spent the past month kicking around the idea of moving from cars to aircraft. Should I go nitro or elec.. Should I buy a trainer or should I just jump into a war bird or maybe an EDF. I took the time to read some of the posts and found alot of the " experienced flyers" say. Start with a trainer, sim and even better, and instructor. I thought to myself, I picked up the car thing pretty fast. I have family in aviation and have loved airplanes since I was a kid. 42 now. Got to fly a T-6 once with War Bird Rides. How hard can it be? Right? Bought a Park flyer trainer. 3 channel. Electric. Not a bad looking airplane. Not a war bird but sexy none the less. First flight with a hand launch. Up it went. Did all the pre flight. controls, CG, Trim and so on. It flew great! Untill I touched the controls.

Some things that I learned. I am not a natural born pilot. An airplane at speed and the ground do not mix. The ground will always win. Foam safe epoxy is not cheap. Airplane parts are not cheap. I had 5 flights today and I am in love. Had a blast!!! My plane is in the shop while the epoxy sets up. There is an RC air park near by and I think I will call in the morning. Can't wait till I can fly again.

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

Park flyers get the feet wet but do not start with a war-bird it will be tooth picks! Do start with an instructor and a trainer! There are allot of good ones out there tower hobby has a good one 40 or a 60 size! But do not go it alone it will only get spendy and lose that fun you felt today! You got the bug now join a club and get help! Once in most of us are lifer's its the best hobby there is! Bob

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

I see you are from Colorado, what part? I have allot of RC friends down there and may be able to get you all linked up on a club or a intructor! Bob

JW0311

The big city of Grand Junction. As a "noob" I don't want to be out of line by saying this but, After reading this thread a litte closer I can't help but wonder if it is simply the type of indavidual that makes or breaks an RC pilot. Forget about the "do it yourself" vs. instructor method. It sounds like alot of you would take the same approach to RC regardless of the technology. If your personality is such that no mater which method you choose, you refuse to fail. Don't we then have the same result? Or maybe I'm full of it.

James

JW0311

Are noob's allowed to have opinions?

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

Yes you do have the right to fail! and go it alone it will cost you allot more money fixing or replacing planes! I know allot have learned on thier own but not without a price! I still have my trainer! We had a guy show up at our field a couple weeks ago did not talk to anyone, started his plane like he knew what he was doing and almost brought it down in a near by trailer park! Not seen him since! Just ask we are willing to help!!!!!! Bob

sportrider_fz6

I've seen it too many times, someone "gets" into the hobby, buys enough planes & stuff to stock a small hobby store, crashes and gives up. I taught myself to fly, I didn't think it was too hard, but I did learn progressively 3ch then 4ch then glow then bigger planes. it took time and there were crashes. I may not of gotten discouraged because at the time RC was a backup hobby. the better I became the more interested I got in it, now it pretty much dominates all free time and money

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

Yes I do understand there are those that are self taught, But I think at a much higher price in planes and money, All I am saying is we that fly will help the new guys get in without having to wreck planes to do it! All we have to be is asked! I am training three right now and have been asked by another just today to teach! You bet I will! That is another part of the hobby! Great job learning on your own but we are out here that teach! I soloed in three days and have now flown most kind of planes but jets and hope to do that one day also but I know when I was first given the control I would have lost my plane if it had not been for my instructor! ! Bob

Charlie P.

Certainly! Encouraged to do so. I have no respect for someone who holds no opinions.

In fact, it's very easy for some to sit back and snipe at someone's dreams. To all the self-taught out there: I salute you. However, statistically, you must know you succeeded against the odds.

Somewhere I read the average hobby lasts a person seven years. I know lots of guys who have been in R/C for 40 or 50 years. That means there are LOTS of guys who come and go quickly. I was in it briefly in the late 70's and gave up trying to figure out powered models on my own (I had flown two-channel gliders successfully). I just couldn't get it all together with the engine and airframe and other things came along (like getting married two weeks out of college).

I care enough about strangers to try and protect them from hurt. And I am thankful for the guys who volunteered their time and gray hairs to get me flying when I decided to get back into it . . . properly and with a trainer and tutor on a buddy box and after being coached on engine installation, maintenance and tuning.

Just paying it forward.

Granted, there are many park flyers and foamies now that can be readily learned by ones self. Sometimes guys my age ignore that. And sometimes young guys think simulators can replace instructors or that lessons learned on a 12 ounce model translate to 12 pound versions.

To those with bright hopes and ambitions: Go for it! But only after you listen to us old grandmothers try and talk sense into your knoggins.

sportrider_fz6

I agree 100% the odds are greater that you will fail on your own. in my experience with the fails I've seen are, guys want to fly the P-51's & Spitfires or the EDF F-16s and they have no stick time. I tried to help a few guys out at a school yard one time, they had a foamy EDF. they had talked to me the week before about getting a plane. this was before I was flying AMA and in a club. I recommended the Hobbyzone SuperCub, telling them it was the plane I had learned on and it was pretty forgiving. but they thought if they could just get the "jet" up in the air they would be able to figure it out. I walked over and asked them "how it was going" and if they needed any help. they said they had it under control and proceeded to roll inverted just after take off and scatter the foamy at full throttle across the field. they packed up and I never saw them again.

aside from choosing the right plane for the job, the biggest thing I try and explain is finesse of the controls and throttle management. get the biggest slowest plane you can afford and climb as high as you can and slow it down and get a feel for how it responds.then start practicing lining up with your runway at altitude and slowly bleed off the altitude until the plane is back on the ground. if you get to this point you have a chance, if you can't, then get an instructor.


EDIT: this thread had me reading when I first started, and Charlie P you were there giving me the same advice you still give now. and yes I was one of those I want a "jet" guys too but thankfully I didn't go that route.

here's the thread from my learning curve [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6988377/anchors_7011070/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#7011070]the beginning[/link]

JW0311

Have no problems asking for help. Have had alot of help in my life time. along with that have made alot of freinds. sounds like it will be no different here. I welcome the help. Never tought of myself as the sharpest tool in the shed. I have already broken this super cub twice. I'm not sure how much more she can take! A quick question about "sim's". Are they worth the money? Cause I have even less of that than I have brains!!!

Thanks!!

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

Simulators are good in that they teach you the controls, but not nessasary! Find a good instructor and he will teach you what you need to know! A good one will keep you high enough and not let you crash. I have friends in Colorado where abouts are you there? Would be happy to help in any way I can! Bob

JW0311

I'm in Grand Junction. Not to far from the air park. Went up there today but no one was there. They did have some contact info posted. I will follow up when I can. Need the help. Having a hard time with this three channel. Tends to dive in the turns. I'm using alot of elevator. Is this normal? Managed to keep it the air for quite awhile. Crashed for landing but nothing was broke so I will take it!!