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Old 09-08-2009 | 11:55 AM
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Default New Piolot in need of advice.

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New pilot needs advice.

I am a fairly new pilot. Been flying electrics for some time now. I flew nitro planes some 20-25 years ago with my father when I was a kid. Never landed to took off. Dad would get the plane in the air and hand the radio to me. I would fly it till it was just about out of fuel and then hand the radio back to him and he would land it. Icould keep it in the air pretty good!
Back then I built an Eagle 63. I won it in a club raffle. Ibult it and lost interest in the hobby. It has been sitting for 20+ years. Neither one of us can remember is we actually flew it. Anyway, I have resurrected it and am planning on flying it with some instruction. IT is still in almost perfect shape! Should fly well. I remember building it from a kit. After seeing it now, I did a pretty good job for being 14 or 15 years old!
It is equipped with a 46 Enya 4 stroke of the same age. I have bench run the engine and it still purrs like a kitten. My father gave it too me, it was out of his collection and was pulled off of something he had back when. When I got it, it was almost locked tight! All that oil had dried out in the engine.
Can't wait to get it in the air.

But, here is the reason for my post.
I have the opportunity to buy a Seagull Decathlon ARF (no radio or engine) for $80. I don't think it has ever been flow, just assembled.
Here is a link to the exact model

http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=SEA2075

My question is, would this be a good "second plane"? I know I am not ready for it yet, need more stick time and I will get it. But is that a good enough deal to buy it and let it sit until Iam ready? I love the looks of it, beautiful!
I would love to hear your thoughts on anything in this post. Advice on the Eagle to the Decathlon</p>
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:12 PM
  #2  
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

I would have to say, no, the Decathalon would not be a good second airplane.
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:27 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Thanks for the advice. Is there a particular reason?I mean, too fast, not stable, etc......?
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:35 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Its flight characteristics, ive never flown a .40 size Deca, but have flown a 1/4 scale its definitely not a good second airplane. You must be very familiar with use of rudder and aileron combined, they also have a mean tip stall, slow her down too much and a wing tip will drop like a rock.


I may be wrong though, maybe they designed those characteristics out of it on the Seagull
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:38 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

I completely dissagree.
Get very comfortable with your trainer and I don't think you will have any problem handling the decathlon.
Get used to landing the trainer with a bit of speed and practice a longer roll out building speed on the ground before taking off.
The only real problems will be ground handling compared to your trainer. It has to have enough speed before taking off and can't be floated in like a trainer. In the air it will not self level like your trainer but will fly where you aim it.
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:39 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Great advice! That is what I need to know. Yeah, I'm familiar with the rud/ail mix. I'll stay away from for now. Maybe after more stick time.
If someone else has experience with this plane I'd love to hear it.
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:42 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Thanks Missleman. I am flying an electric 3D plane now, and that is exactly how it is. It is defiantly NOT a trainer and I am able to handle it pretty well. It to likes to come in "hot" and really won't float. So I understand exactly what you are talking about.
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:42 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

PS:
That Enya 46 will not be enough for the Decathlon. You will want at leat a 46 2 stroke or 52 4 stroke to fly in a scale manner.
And Seagull makes a nice well built plane, or at least that has been my experience.
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:43 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Excellent your trainer was a good choice then and now as well as the engine sounds as though you have everything in hand and doing great.

If you have not run the engine on the airplane and the original fuel tank is still in the airplane you may want to pull it and inspect carefully all manner of bads things can happen in storage and this means internally too. Actually whenever I refurbish an old airframe I make a habit of installing new tanks and usually Hayes tanks also.

On the Decathalon I agree with also with Metalica That is not a good follow on airplane even though it is a high wing. I would generally prefer to see folks go to a good low wing intermediate type airplane. Such as the various Tigers, Nitro planes Low Wing trainer, Keosho Calmato and so on.

It is a resonable purchase though if it has not been hacked up in assembly. So you still may want to do the purchase if you have the will power not to start flying to soon before your skills have had a chance to mature. That always is the problem when folks have great airplanes waiting in the wings to fly that are still over their head. The temptation is hard to deal with.
This is the factor that you see occassionaly when someone recently soloed and going off on his own will loose many airplanes in a row over maybe just days. I call this the 'crash fest syndrome' and its most often due just to impatience in ones personal skills progress.

John
Old 09-08-2009 | 12:54 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Missleman,
Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I was looking at the manufacturers website and was studying the specs closely and that was the first thing I noticed. I never really planned on putting the Enya 46 on the Decath. It will stay with the trainer.

John,

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I did exactly what you are talking about. I pulled the tank hatch off and the first thing I noticed was the dark gray or black foam that was around the tank has turned into this mushy, powdery, stuff and I know it had to go. I pulled the tank and the first thing that happened was the line to the clunker broke off. I knew then I would need a new tank. Just one more thing to add to my Tower Hobbies list of goodies!

About the Decath, I think I could resist the temptation and I may pick it up and let it sit a while. I don't have an engine or radio gear for it yet anyway. I certainly won't be pulling the gear from the trainer. The club that I will be re-joining has a new pilot training program. If it survives my learning process, It might be nice to keep the trainer together and use it for that program when I get "good enough" to help others learn to fly.
Old 09-08-2009 | 01:37 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

ORIGINAL: BIG4D
If it survives my learning process, It might be nice to keep the trainer together and use it for that program when I get ''good enough'' to help others learn to fly.

Excellent plan and the well rounded pilot will always keep at least one trainer on hand. They are so useful and fun for so many other types of flying fun such as Cross country, float flying, night flying even trainer pylon racing or wingless trainer racing.

I would highly reccomend this tank for your trainer it is far superior to all the old rubber bung types and far more relaiable as well as eaiser to set up and install. I would also suggest using the two line system only.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXK830&P=RF

There have been four of those Decathalons show up at our field and all four have been crashed Agine from folks behind their airplanes but here is what I did with one of the wreaks:

John
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Old 09-08-2009 | 02:19 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Great, that is the EXACT tank I bought! Amazing! We must really be on the same wavelength.  Glad to hear that will work for me. Not sure yet if I will buy the Decathlon, but if I do, I won't be flying it any time soon!.

I love what you did with the crash. I love the name!! "Flying Turd". Why, may I ask did you call it that?

Old 09-08-2009 | 03:46 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

ORIGINAL: BIG4D
I love what you did with the crash. I love the name!! ''Flying Turd''. Why, may I ask did you call it that?


That is a very standoffish kitbash of the decathalon ARF into the Champion Lancer Twin Trainer of 1965. It actually was a full scale bash of the Champion Citabria/Decathalon into the cheapie twin trainer the Lancer. They were in short awful airplanes incapable of sustaining flight at sea level on a cold day at gross weight with one engine shut down. Fixed pitch props, fixed landing gear on a couple of 100 horsepower O-200's.

Around the flight school where I taught being on the bottom of pecking order I got stuck flying it all the time for the many ad on multi ratings we did.

Actually as a young macho instructor I loved it the back seat where the instructor sat had a stick with a coupla overhead throttles and the student up front had a column and two overheads.

As miseable as that thing flew I loved it being just cool to fly. I was in twin heaven that summer and yes around the flight office we called it the flying turd.

The kit bash RC acheved all the goals it does nothing very well and just flys around with an occassional loop or roll so Yup it flys just like a flying turd
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Old 09-08-2009 | 04:24 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Now THAT is one odd bird alrighty.[:'(] But a good time builder.
http://www.airport-data.com/articles...-Rev-1;40.html
Old 09-08-2009 | 05:49 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Indeed Bruce and so much fun, probably responsable for the FAA speakeze term Drift Down.
Old 09-08-2009 | 06:51 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.


ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner


There have been four of those Decathalons show up at our field and all four have been crashed Agine from folks behind their airplanes but here is what I did with one of the wreaks:

John
love the bashed decathlon!!!! truly awesome!!!
Old 09-08-2009 | 07:41 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

Thank you Sportrider
Old 09-09-2009 | 06:55 AM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

i have seen the decathlon fly and yes i think that you should get it esp if it hasent been flown. 80 bucks if you dont get it ill buy it and im a giant scale flyer. we had a kid at my field that had one last summer and was flying it and the battery pack came undone it flew in a loop 5 miles from the field and landed in the parking lot of a big lots store next to a car. and yes it landed did NOT crash we dont know how but it landed. all it did was spread the aluminum landing gear out so they were almost flat. he just took the gear off bent them back and flew it again. it is a true 100% true story.
Old 10-05-2009 | 10:52 PM
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.


ORIGINAL: BIG4D

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Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:''Cambria Math''; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:1; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-formatther; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:''''; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:''Calibri'',''sans-serif''; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:''Times New Roman''; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:''Times New Roman''; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}.MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;}@page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;}div.Section1 {page:Section1;}></style><![if gte mso 10]><style> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:''Table Normal'';mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:'''';mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin-top:0in;mso-para-margin-right:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:0in;line-height:115%;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:''Calibri'',''sans-serif'';mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:''Times New Roman'';mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}</style><![endif]><p class=''MsoNormal''>Hey all. New pilot needs advice.

I am a fairly new pilot. Been flying electrics for some time now. I flew nitro planes some 20-25 years ago with my father when I was a kid. Never landed to took off. Dad would get the plane in the air and hand the radio to me. I would fly it till it was just about out of fuel and then hand the radio back to him and he would land it. I could keep it in the air pretty good!
Back then I built an Eagle 63. I won it in a club raffle. I bult it and lost interest in the hobby. It has been sitting for 20+ years. Neither one of us can remember is we actually flew it. Anyway, I have resurrected it and am planning on flying it with some instruction. IT is still in almost perfect shape! Should fly well. I remember building it from a kit. After seeing it now, I did a pretty good job for being 14 or 15 years old!
It is equipped with a 46 Enya 4 stroke of the same age. I have bench run the engine and it still purrs like a kitten. My father gave it too me, it was out of his collection and was pulled off of something he had back when. When I got it, it was almost locked tight! All that oil had dried out in the engine.
Can't wait to get it in the air.

But, here is the reason for my post.
I have the opportunity to buy a Seagull Decathlon ARF (no radio or engine) for $80. I don't think it has ever been flow, just assembled.
Here is a link to the exact model

http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=SEA2075

My question is, would this be a good ''second plane''? I know I am not ready for it yet, need more stick time and I will get it. But is that a good enough deal to buy it and let it sit until I am ready? I love the looks of it, beautiful!
I would love to hear your thoughts on anything in this post. Advice on the Eagle to the Decathlon</p>

Sounds like a pretty good deal for the decathlon. If you do buy it, IMO I'd hold onto it and get some more experience with a more intermediate plane. I'm actually making that exact same transition now (from an old eagle 63 to the seagull decathlon), and boy is the decathlon a handfull! I've flown it once so far, and just about ground looped on the first take off. Handling on the ground is a bit squirrelly. The decathlon flies very well, but I almost spun it into the ground when I inadvertantly snap rolled it (had some 'generous' control surface throws set up on it - a little too much for a newb). Flying 'three mistakes high' depends on how big of a mistake you make :^)

The eagle 63 is a great flying airplane, you're going to love it! Have fun!
Old 10-06-2009 | 06:41 AM
  #20  
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Default RE: New Piolot in need of advice.

There is a great build tread in the ARF section of these forums abouth te Phoenix Super Decathlon. I read each and every post while I was putting mine together. Maiden flight was week before last. I fly mine with an OS 55AX, spinning a 13 X 6 APC prop. This combination gets it into the air quickly and power for all that you want it to do. I had no handling problems at all. Take off is tricky because of the short fuselage and the fact that is is a tail dragger. I set my CG 90mm from LE. Manual calls for 100mm. Flys perfect for me at 90. but a little nose heavy while inverted. The decathlon was my 3rd plane. I rated it here as a good second plane, but I had alot of stick time on my first one. Setting up and tuning the engine is an art within itself. You'll need the help of someone experienced to get it dialed in properly so that you don't dead stick in flight. Other than that, it flys super, and lands great. Alot of posters were saying that you need to land under power, I tried that on the first flight and go some pretty good bounces when landing, the next flights, I chopped the throttle on final approach and it glided right in and landing softly with very little bounce. I have six flights on it know, and the more I fly it the more I like it! for 80 bucks RTF, its a good deal! wouldn't hurt to get an instructor to do the maiden flight for you.

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