I think I would start my first rc flight as far as the price of the rc airplanes' getting higher and higher. One thing makes me unsure is that I don't know which RTF mode is best for beginner like me who just know what the motor, battery, transmitter, Receiver...are used for, but don't know how to.
As I am new to the forum and may know little about some scale mode, it would be very nice if you could explain why the plane you suggest is better.
Thanks for advance!

lossimon......welcome to rc universe forums.....i have been flying for over 25 years and want to tell you this is one of the best hobbies.....i know it can be a little confusing trying to figure what to buy and who to talk to......you came to the right place.....i will try to help in any way i can....i see you just started this thread today.....please be patient and keep checking back, as it takes just a little while for other members to catch on to your thread......i'm sure that in a short bit of time, me and a number of other wonderful rcu members will have you pointed in the right direction......let me start by saying you did the right thing by reaching out for help......it's very important to aquire the right airplane as well as the right teacher......the best models for learning are the trainer class of planes.....there are many, many companies that manufacture trainer planes......although they all look relatively the same, there are some slight differences the designs......here are the differences....trainers have flat bottom wings.....the flat bottom wing cause constant lift and causes the plane to always rise, as long as you maintain constant speed......as long as the plane is alway's rising, you can concentrate more on where the plane is headed.....another feature of the trainer plane is the dihedral shape of the wing.....dihedral shape means the wing will not sit flat on a flat surface......it is shaped in a "V" shape with the outer wing tips pointing up......the purpose of the "V" shape makes the plane always want to fly in the upward position.....it kind of refuses to let the plane fly upside down....the trainer planes come in mainly 3 affordable, flyable popular sizes.....the 25 size, the 40 size and the 60 size.....my personal preference, i think the 25 is too small and thus too hard to see when your just learning.....the 60 size would work fine but i think it is little too expensive.....the 40 size is right size and perfect price.....buy the 40 instead of the 60 and you will have the extra money to buy the other stuff you will need to get the airplane running......you will still need a radio,motor,starter and glow plug warmer......i think i heard you mention something about scale models.....if you have never flown, i think you might not be ready for this type of plane .......also, from what i've seen most scale size rc planes are designed after the full scale planes represent and your gonna pay more for that.....

Welcome to RCU! And welcome to the new addiction. Everyone here has a favorite trainer and opinions on what is the best to learn on. Most trainers are good in my opinion and do the job that it was designed to do.

I bought a cheap RTF electric trainer that was made of foam. I flew it without crashing, but I wanted to learn more about different planes and wrap myself all I could about this hobby. I joined RCU and joined a local club.

The Ol' timers welcomed me and sold me a glow trainer so I could expand my training.

My club hooked up a " Buddy Box" for my first 2 flights with a instructor, and I soloed on my 3rd flight. I bought a flight Simulator for the PC and now, 6 years almost 7 and finally advanced to Scale Warbirds and stunt flying.

I still fly the simulators and I'm still learning new things. Last summer a Ol' timer taught me a neat trick on how to adjust a glow 2-stroke. I thought I knew how to adjust engines until one week last summer my engine started to quit on me most of the time when I landed and I couldn't figure out from the life of me what was wrong. But again, the thought of asking for help never crossed my mind either. [&:]

I got a lot more respect from the Ol' timers when I gave up and begged for help. Not only did I fix the engine problem, but saved my plane for another year of enjoyment without a scratch.

Also, you can ask about how to get started, and what would be good plane to start on at your local hobby shop. Most times the owner or someone who works there is in this hobby, and has a few years under them.

Good Luck and hope to see you around. And don't get frustrated if you run into a bad day of flight or run into a frustrating kit. We've all been there and done that. Well, most of us anyway.

Pete

Welcome to RC!!!   RCU is a great site. 
I realize that to get flying ASAP you will probably by an ARF (almost ready to fly) model.  I personally have never bought an ARF but I realize for someone new it is probably the way to go.  I just want to give you something else to consider.  After you have bought your first model and are flying regularly, think about buying a kit you have to build.  There are several kits of models that are easy to build and fly.  The building of kits,and eventually scratch building, is a part of the hobby that is very rewarding.  Some folks dont care anything at all about building there own.  Some folks dont have the time.  But if you have an ARF that you are flying, then maybe you can take a few hours a week to  build your own while you are building your flying skills with the ARF.  I personally really get a kick out of flying a model that I built.  Just something for a newbie to consider for the long haul.  </p>

I too just asked this same question on the wrong forum. Oops! I looked at the sticky by RCKen, but there are only glow planes, I may be wrong, but I figured it would be best for me to learn on an electric that way I wouldnt have to deal with the engine and any problems it has. With electric I could focus on learning to fly, then move to the glow world. Like I said over there I dont really want a park flyer I think they are ugly, I was looking at some of the inducted fan rc planes alot of them said great for beginners but I dont know what to believe.

Only diffrence between RTF and BNF is with BNF I can choose and buy whatever remote I want, but all the equipment is in the plane correct?

Thanks for all the help provided by the RCU people in advance!

shajaan6, let me see if i can help you and respond to some of your questions.....on the one hand, you are right, with electric you don't have to worry about adjusting the carberator, just plug in the battery and go......but with electric, once you master the trainer and you want to move up to maybe a sport plane, you will be much more limited in finding a home for your electric motor......mind you, i'm not trying to talk you out of going electric.....i own both electric and nitro, mostly electric, even my helicopter is electric.....i have 9 parkflyer electric planes, 4 "big" planes on nitro and a heli-max axe 400 3d ccpm electric helicopter.....all my electrics are parkflyers, usually 30"-32" range wingspan and they are great.....i mostly use my electrics in low wind and when space is limited......the electrics are good because they are smaller and fit in the trunk of my car and i don't have to carry all the fuel and starters and flight box,etc....i grab my radio, two planes and a half a dozen batteries or so and i'm gone.....at the end of the day, no mess in my trunk, no cleaning my planes and the wifey's not complaining cause the car smells like gas.....with the gas on the other hand, i have to take my truck, because of the mess and because they're just too big.....but i love my gasser planes.....you just can't beat the "smell" of nitro on a beautiful sunday morning of flying.....oh! and the sound, let's not forget the sound.....all of my motors are of the higher-end o.s. ax line and are especially potent.....they sound awesome when you come in over the runway,pull straight up and disappear into the clouds......ha! ha!, shajaan6, are you drooling yet???.....you sir are in the best hobby.....back to gas v/s electric....it's all preference.....if you plan on only owning 1-2 planes planes it's not that important.....if you can afford it and over time you want to own a "fleet", then it would be something to consider......i have a fleet because they are all different types of planes and thus each plane serves a different purpose.....i have 3D planes, sport planes, 1 trainer plane, 1 glider and 1 3D electric heli......right now i'm looking too add a "nostalgic" plane.....theres alot of them coming out right now......nostalgic planes are modern design planes that are dressed on the outside to look like the old style planes.....the hangar 9 saratoga 40 size nitro, electrifly four-star 25 size electric and the model tech dragon lady 60 size nitro are beautiful, modern designed planes with the "OLD SCHOOL" look's......i mention this because after you learn to fly your trainer and want to move up to something more "sporty", your gonna want to "reuse" as much gear from your trainer onto your second plane......hence the purpose of this long response.....as a "seasoned" flyer, 25+ years in the hobby, i could give you a short 2 sentence response or i could give you a comprehensive answer and cover all the angles and help you make a conscientious decision as to where you spend your limited,hard earned dollars......money is tight and hard to come by and if you spend it wisely it would not be long before you build up a nice little fleet of planes like the rest of us.....if you decide to go with an electric trainer theres not as many other sport planes where you can adapt that motor......if you go with say a 40 size nitro trainer, there are literally hundreds of sport planes, war birds, semi-scale, 3d and probably a few others that don't come to mind right now....i've got an old o.s. 40fp engine that i've had for at least 15 years and i've had it on about 8-10 different planes and it still runs like a top.....don't be afraid to learn how to adjust a nitro engine....it's like anything else, once you find someone to show you, you never forget.....one other thing....if you do go with an electric trainer, try to buy one with a "real" radio that you can reuse on your next plane.....keep in mind,some of those smaller, off-brand electric planes come with thier own proprietary brand of radio and are not alway's easily adaptable to other largerm mainstream brand of planes......the radio, servos and receivers are another area, depending on your budget, if you "get it right" the first time, will serve you for many,many years.....i've got a JR XP6102 computer radio, with 10 model memory, that i use for all my planes, gas, electric, big or small, it doesn't matter......initially i thought it was alot of money for this radio, but now looking back i think it was a smart decision.....i don't have to carry around 3-4 radio when i go fly and i don't have to worry about grabbing the wrong radio.....the night before i don't have to worry about charging the right radio.....just one radio for me and it has served me for many,many years.....i just recently bought my first 2.4 gigahertz radio....depending on your budget and how long you plan on being in the hobby, you might want to consider one of these radios as well......i know it sounds kinda expensive to purchase 2.4 ghz but, as much as we hate it, this is the "new" direction that hobby is headed.....if you think that's expensive, can you imagine me trying to convert 13 planes and one heli over to the new 2.4 ghz......i've already converted my heli and one plane, so that only leaves me with 12 more planes to convert.....i just bought the futaba 6ex 2.4 ghz. computer radio with 6 model memory and it's been nothing short of excellent......the only down side that i can see to the futaba brand is the 2.4 receivers are $100 a piece.....small potatoes when you have $5oo-$600 tied up in each plane, like i do......bottom line is, if you do decide to "dive" in to this hobby, progress slowly and ask a lot of questions.....it's really easy to get all excited and get caught up in all the hype and run out, prematurely and buy the first plane you see in a magazine ad......but, if your on a limited budget and you have to get it right the first time, stick to these "forums", ask a lot of questions and figure out which direction you want to go......i know this is kind of a long response but, as a "fellow flyer" i'm trying to be as informative as i can.......as the saying goes, somebody took me under the wing and taught me the ropes when i entered this wonderful hobby......i'm just passing the favor forward and in the future when you get good and knowledgable at this hobby, i hope you will do the same.....KOOLKRABBER47......

Read your own post and others its obvious your goal is glow power. I will take tremendous heat for even suggesting this but I am going to anyway! Forget electric start out with a conventional proper glow powered trainer, The uglier the better. Do not screw around with ducted fan, it will be a money drain and contribute very little to your learning comprehension.

Good airmanship can only be acheved by a climb up that airmanship ladder one rung at a time. Start skipping rungs in that ladder and you will end up with holes in your knowledge/skills and that means wasted money lots of it.


You will save considerable money and walk a shorter road in acheving your dreams by starting with glow.

As far as BNF, I,ve no idea what that is beyond another peddlar coining yet another phrase to fit his product but just adds to the confusion of new folks.

http://www.murocmodelmasters.org/

This is an active vibrant club probably right near you if you are from Palmdale like your profile says. The fly off a permanent site on the south end of Muroc dry lake at Edwards. Do yourself a favor network with them and get involved before you start buying Stuff. You will not regrete it.

John

There's plenty of guys who have "learned all the ropes" they need to learn about RC flight by just flying electric. A guy can learn RC flight with a SlowStick or a glider and move up to a 4D indoor electric plane that does all the stoopifying tricks within a year's time. I will say that by going the electric route there is more to learn, more to know about equipment selection. The accomplished electric hobbyist becomes a student of electrical engineering.
For those who don't have a fascination with engines, electric is a great alternative.

lossimon,

I will probably take heat for this but I'm going to give you some good advice. Even though there are many knowledgeable people on here there are also those who you don't know what their experience level or knowledge base is. You will get a lot of good info here once you are established though. OK..........here goes..........go to a local hobby shop and find out where your local club is.........DON'T BUY ANYTHING!!!!! Contact the local club and get hooked up with one of their instructors...........also join the AMA because you will have to in the near term anyway. Once you have an instructor, he or she will be able to advise you on what equipment to invest in. This is a good way to go because the instructor will steer you to what he or she is familiar and comfrotable with. Don't even mention the word scale until you are completely over your training period........scale planes are a whole different animal. Once your instructor and you buy what equipment you need you will be able to agree on a training program that is convenient for both of you. If you are able to fly a couple of times a week.......soloing should not take an excessively long amount of time but plan on a good 6 months to really get proficient at flying and then you can start thinking about a second plane. Just remember a local club and instructor are tantamount to success.........do you self a favor and follow this plan and you won't be sorry.

Cheers,
Andy

I hear about gravity brand on chicago show.The RC airplane looks good.I think they have already launched  their product.Someone know that?</p>

The planes look good but they should hire at at least a 10 year old child with a "C" average in English to write their instruction booklet for them.

BNF = Bind and Fly. The receiver, servos, and engine (or motor and speed controller) are preinstalled. Unless things have changed very recently, this combination is specific to models having Spektrum brand radio equipment. This means you must use a Spektrum or JR brand transmitter to control it.

So you have a lot of transmitter choices but it is not exactly a "buy whatever remote I want" situation.

In my opinion, alot of what is said here is great information. You will be much more successful joining a club and finding an instructor. However, put some thought into who the instructor is. I have met some people, who have been in this hobby for many many years, and are set in one way of doing things. A club and an AMA membership is an abolute must. However, if you ask an instructor what equipment to buy, and he says things like: Nothing but Futaba, Nothing but JR, Nothing but SIG, etc...you may want to ask around and find someone more open minded. This hobby is surrounded largely by opinion, and everyone has their own favorites. However, we beginners dont always have the expendable income to go and buy a 700.00 transmitter, or 400.00 for a nexstar when a 300.00 H9 Alpha flies identically. I started out the hard way, by teaching myself along the way. I started out with a sim, and my wife bought me a Hobbyzone Super Cub for my birthday. Now Im not saying that I flew perfectly right out of the box, as I did go through a few wings and one set of landing gear on the Super Cub, but I learned to fly with a 170.00 ready to fly airplane. I now have two nitro trainers that I love flying, and will still break out the foam Super Cub when the wind is calm. I am also waiting until after christmas to jump into an Edge 540 gasser.
My point is, you dont have to spend a fortune to enjoy this hobby, and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. I have two nitro trainers and my cub that I love flying and in a year I think I may have spent 800.00 with the exception of fuel. JR, Futaba, Spektrum etc. all function equally well, as do most good name trainers.

Its different for everyone, but I would definitely recommend starting out with a cheap foam electric. They are fairly cheap on the front end, and parts are dirt cheap. A wing for the Hobbyzone super cub is less than 20 bucks, and the most expensive part is less than 50 at my local hobbyshop. Granted, a foam plane will never fly as clean as a larger wood plane, but it will provide you the basic principals. The transition to a larger nitro trainer will be surprising, but the principals are the same. I have only had one major accident, but that was at dusk and a little later in the evening than I should have been flying. Long story short, I thought I had enough room to clear the tree....I was wrong.

A good simulator is a useful tool also! I would stay away from FMS, it is free, but does not portray accurate flight charactaristics. The cheapest one I have found is called Clearview RC Flight Simulator. Its downloadable on the web for around forty bucks. Works great, though not as accurate as Realflight or FSOne.

Find a club if you can, and an instructor if possible. Spend as little as possible to start out with, because theres a good chance that your first plane will not be around forever...anyone who flies will sooner or later eat the grass...or a tree.

TonyG

Carrelh,

Just FYI, the Bind n Fly feature is specific to any 2.4ghz DSM radio equipment. This type of radio system is available through JR, Spektrum (who is made by JR), Futaba, Hitech and many others. This operates on basically a cell phone frequency as opposed to the 72mhz which operates around a walkie talkie frequency....if Im not mistaken. The 72mhz equipment is open to interference, where as the 2.4ghz equipment is not. This is why 72mhz equipment has to be impounded at a club, and 2.4ghz equipment does not.

Choosing a Bind n Fly aircraft is a great option as long as you already own 2.4ghz DSM equipment. It will literally "lock on" to what ever aircraft you bind it to. Your reciever will be slaved to that transmitter and will not recieve any signal from another transmitter. Its a great improvement in my opinion. As a matter of fact, last I heard the Joe Nall Fly In will not allow 72mhz radios at their 2010 event...which says alot...

TonyG

Tony,

I understand the bind-n-fly concept.

Are there any bind-n-fly planes currently available that do not have spektrum radio gear? If yes, please give a specific example.

The only ones I know of are E-Flite, HobbyZone, ParkZone. They all have Spektrum receivers which means they will not work with a transmitter that is not JR or Spektrum.

Seems like I missed something. Well i came back and click the page and saw so many wonderful advices. I should have came to check earlier. Thanks for all your advice, they are useful.
Have read every post and think that joining a club and finding a instructor are the first i would do. Also, i should think about every detail before i buy a plane. But just wondering, most shops title their RTF plane as scale mode for "beginner", but as you said never think about scale when i start...what a real beginner's plane features?

Beginner plane would in my opinion definitely have:
1. High wing, wing mounted on the top of the fuselage
2. Be made of a light weight material, preferably foam due to its light wing loading and low cost
3. Have an electric motor for propulsion, as opposed to a nitro or gas which will be a distraction while you are learning.
4. Three channel aircraft are great because of their typical self-righting charactaristics. They do not have ailerons to control the roll axis, so they have to do that automatically.

One thing to remember, most rc aircraft are "scale" to some sense. They are scaled down from the full size, or "full scale" aircraft. When someone in the hobby starts talking about a scale aircraft, they are usually refering to a highly detailed aircraft that is designed and built to resemble the full scale aircraft in great detail. Take a P-51 Mustang for example. Most of them are some scale (i.e. 25% would be a quarter of the size of the full size airplane) of the original warplane. They look great, but typically have high wing loading which means they have to be flying pretty fast to generate enough lift on the wing to get the wheels off the ground. While they are some of the most beautiful works of art in the sky, they are NOT meant for beginners. I have seen too many of them hit the ground, and they require probably the most time to build...so its never a pretty sight. When someone says to stay away from the scale planes, as a general rule, stay away from any kind of war plane replica...P51, B52 etc. However, one good low wing trainer...probably a good second plane, is a T34...as an exception to the rule.

Of course, if you ask 10 people, you will get 10 very different opinions. You have to remember, there is no perfect science to this. Everyone has only their opinion and ideas to share. We can all tell you many different wrong ways of getting started, but there is no perfect way. First is to understand the basic principals of flight. What makes the airplane lift off of the ground, what makes it climb/descend, what makes it stall etc. Once you understand this and what controls roll/pitch/yaw axis, your on your way.

And as someone else here has written before, always remember...when inverted, down is up and up is expensive!

Hope some of this helps!

TonyG

Carrelh,

I do not currently know of any bind n fly aircraft on the market that come with Futaba DSM reciever. I am not sure as to why this is, whether it be that JR has cornered the market or that Futaba is not interested in providing that type of package deal. Who knows....I wish that distributors would start providing that option. It seems though, that I read somewhere that the bind n fly concept was first concieved by JR or Spektrum....More than likely, JR invented it or brought it into the hobby, and started the company Spektrum to market it....this would probably be my belief as I dont think Spektrum sells a radio system other than DSM....I personally have read what seems like infinite amounts of useless information on the 2.4ghz digital spectrum modulation, but still do not know all there is to know about it.

As an option, though it just means spending more money, they do sell a 2.4 DSM module to convert some Futaba radios to DSM. I do believe that you can purchase a compatible module for you Futaba, and it will then work with the current bind n fly options. It is still probably cheaper than buying a new transmitter.

Long story short, I see what you are talking about. I have been looking while I type this and still can find no bind n fly aircraft equipped with a Futaba DSM reciever...

TonyG

lossimon,

I respectively disagree with the statement that most airplanes are scaled down versions of a real "scale" airplane. As I said in my previous post, this is a good place to get some ideas but you are right......... the number 1 item would be to find and join a club and number 2, get an instructor and let him or her guide you in your first equipment because it will be what they are familiar and comfortable with and that will really help you get started on the right foot.

Good luck,
Andy

Oldtyme,

After going back and reading my reply...I have to say that didnt come across the way I wanted it to...

What I should have said is that you want to stay away from aircraft that actually look like the real full size aircraft...that is what is meant by most when they say scale. Most trainers will not resemble a full size airplane that you have ever seen. Things like a cub, reliant, decathalon werent meant to be trainers even though they have a high wing.

Cranial rectal inversion... thank you for correcting me.

TonyG

Good thinking lossimon. Trying to do this alone will cost you.
As for airplane selection, the best thing to do is ask your instructor what he likes to teach on. A bigger club may even own one or two planes for training so you can try one and see what you think. Every manufacturer makes a basic trainer, and they all look basically the same and fly very similarly.

One other thing is that you mentioned going electric for convenience. Electric has improved dramatically over the last few years so it is an option on just about any airplane you could want to fly. The downshot is that it costs more for the same amount of power, and you have to wait for batteries to charge between flights. If you decide to go electric in the classic .40 sized trainer, figure $150-$200 extra for the power system and another $100-$150 for a full-featured battery charger.

Well I don't know if it's proper or not, I've came across another forum and saw MANY recommendations of wild hawk as beginner's plane, or 3 ch j3 piper. I clicked the links they posted( after that realized it may be one of the sponsers of their forum or kind of covert promotions for the web...). and guess some of you guys may have either of it, could anyone tell me how good they are? And as the wild hawk looks really cheap and ugly in that provided web, though cost just $70 to $80...Is it possible to train with it for at least 1 or 2 months?

If your goals are glow power then start with glow power.

John

I just read everything everyone has posted, alot of usefull information. I Havent updated my profile in quite some time, but i have about 8 years of RC car/truck experience, I am used to nitro/2stroke engines, I figured they were diffrent to tune than planes... not sure why.. Logically same concept. I have decided on the way to go after talking to LHS and such, I found someone to come to my house and help me on the computer so I will be starting with the Realflight simulator. As it was explained to me, crash, push little red button, no money no time. ready to practice some more. So I will be buying 3 of these for me, my brother in law, and my dad. My favorite planes are the warbirds and bi-planes so I will practice untill I feel, and my instructor feel I am ready to invest in a glow starter, perhaps a second starter depending how much I learn from realflight. Again thank you all for so much information I will let you know how it goes along the way, perhaps spring time I will be ready to buy a real(well rc) plane.

-James