I have been flying RC helicopters for almost 4 years. Both Nitro and Electric. I then got this strong desire to fly airplanes. I bought a used G3 simulator and practiced flying different model planes. Few weeks ago I decided on the Seagull Decathlon ARF. All the electronics are in, engine mounted, lines connected, and all i need now is fuel. I then learned on this RCUniverse that the Decathlon is not a Beginners plane. I am very determined to fly the Decathlon.

when they talk about balancing the plane what does that mean? should it balance so that the fuselage is parallel with the floor or the chord or wing incidence is parallel with the floor/horizon? manual saids to balance between 90 - 100mm. it will balance at 80 - it will balance at 120. of course the plane will look either too nose heavy or tail heavy.

Will the Magnum XLS 46 be enough to get her flying?

Hobby store suggested 11 x 6 prop. will that be ok?

Any helpful advice about the flying characteristics?

I hope a lot of others chime in on this one and help you out but I don't think a decathalon is the best first plane! not impossible by anymeans but it might be a good idea to pick a trainer or something.
I know I'm not being very helpful here but I'm actually a little worried even with your heli experience.

I have the phoenix 40 decathlon, with OS 55 AX and a 12.25 X 3.74 APC prop. There is a good build thread on the scale forum on the seagull. Most guys say the 46 will fly it scale. I intitaily intended to use a OS 46 LA, but was talked into getting the 55. I'm glad I did, flys it like a dream. Takes off and lands great! I have noticed no bad habbits with mine. I think the 46 will fly it, but it won't jump off the ground or have unlimited vertical with it. It will hover with 55 AX. Be ready for rudder on take off. apply throttle slowly on takeoff. I have mine balanced at 95mm and it is a tad nose heavy, but she flys straight and true, so I'll leave it alone. Personnally I wouldn't fly as first plane, but then again with all the heli stick time you have, it may be ok for you.

Be sure to have someone video tape the first flight.

As others have said, a Decathlon is not a good plane to start with. Don't take off unless you have good flying speed or it will torque roll right into the ground and anytime you are going very slow, it can snap on you - especially if you zip up the throttle!

Yeah and Minnflyer (my Idol) did a great review of the 120 size decathlon. I was running a 13 X 6 prop on mine for the first three flights, It would torqure roll left on take off, but was ready for it and it deadsticked the first three flights,. When I changed over to the 12.25X 3.75 prop, torque roll went away, no more deasticks, take off was smoother, glides in for landing like a trainer. Either way, good luck. If you are flying at a club, ask one of the more experienced pilots to stand by in case you loose control, and pass the Tx over to them to handle it, or better yet, buddy box it. At least then you can get used to flight characteristics and fly with less stress than just taking off on your own. Keep it high in the sky, till you get a good feel for it.

I have seen pilots who fly average sport planes not be able to handle this plane. The gear is narrow, tall, and forward which makes it supper squarely. Once in the air you may be ok or maybe not. It will cartwheel on a landing with a good pilot.

I thought about hanging my decathlon for now and buying a trainer - but deep down in me i'm thinking I can handle this plane.

My plan is - accelerate slow but steady, get the tail slightly up, increase speed (here i'm hoping the plane will lift on its own), correct for any tipping, slight (very slight) elevator, turn slowly (tiny inputs), and bring her around again and see if I can "fly by" over the runway, and somewhere during the flight (if its still flying) work on the trim. If I get to the landing - thats still up in the air. I do fine on the simulator with different planes.

How different is the simulator to the airplane? For the helicopter it has a different feel. if i was to compare it to one of the simulator airplanes (G3), which one would it be close too?

Is it the take off I'm going to have an issue with?

That's one bad thing about the simulator... It won't snap on you like a real Decathlon will.

Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE decathlons! When you are up there flying around, it is one of the nicest planes ever!

The problem is that they have a very short tail. This means that the tail doesn't have much leverage. So unless you have a good amount of airflow over the empennage, it just won't have the authority it needs to stay in the back where it belongs.

Take off and landing are the two most treacherous times

So, Keep airspeed up. Almost sounds like I may have to keep the throttle above 3/4 stick or stay full throttle most of the time. I just like the way the Decathlon looks. 4 years ago I was going to do fixed wing over rotary but at the time I was more fascinated with the mechanical aspect of the rotary. Now I got this driving desire to do fixed wing. I'm prepared for crashes - crashes will not hurt me financially - I'm doing this for the love of RC.

what do you guys mean by "will snap on you"? just suddenly it will nose up or nose down with no control inputs?

No, you can easily fly the decathlon at 1/4 throttle. The only thing you need to keep in mind is that if it gets very slow, and then you zip up the throttle, the sudden change in torque can bite you.

For example... If you're coming in on final, you're lined up with the runway, birds are singing and all is right with the world, you can just float her in like a feather.

But now, start that same scenario on the base leg... You're floating her in, you TURN to final, and the tail decides that it wants to keep turning after you stopped.

Or, on take off, as soon as the wing catches enough air to lift off, you let it. This can cause a torque roll. It is better to allow it to pick up just a little more speed than it needs before allowing it to lift off. And if a problem DOES occur, CHOP the throttle! Adding throttle will just increase the torque

Minnflyer,

thanks for the tip. most appreciated. anymore - please let me know, especially with flying fixed wing. I learned with scale helicopters I don't fly the helicopter - I guide it, otherwise it looks really choppy and bouncy. are airplanes the same way too?

Here is an example of a snap roll

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-8A4eDnz68[/youtube]

Difference is wind!! uneven field takeoff, landing terrain, deep grass, cross winds, wind at elevation, down drafts, sudden changes with wind etc... Don't get me wrong simulators are the best thing since sliced bread, but they don't prepare you for everything. Flying flying and more flying make you better (spoken from one that doesn't do enoough of it).

A lot depends on the plane, some you guide, some need to be flown "on the wing" as we say.

They're like women.. no two are alike, some give you pleasure and some are nothing but trouble, and what's a good one for one man is a disaster for another!

I have this plane as well. I was warned about its short tail moment before I bought it. Like many though I was taken in by its good looks and dirt cheap price. I have about 6-8 flights on it and narrowly escaped sudden death on take off each time. I'm a decent sport flier with several planes, but mastering the takeoff on this one has been eluding me. once in the air it fly's great as others have stated. I have not had any problems landing, thankfully.

If you have a huge runway these problems can be mitigated by shear room, but with out room for error this plane will bite you quick if you can't get it to track straight on takeoff.....as this plane takes a little extra runway to gain enough lift.

O.S.70Surpass

I debated pulling the engine and either selling airframe of making a "Hanger Queen" out of it. I have just decided to fly it into the ground. not really worth selling. Hopefully I can learn something from this plane before I lawn dart it.

Yes, a Decathlon is a great looking little plane and many are taken in by it's looks. Heck, I'm working on building a Dynaflite Decathlon with a 89" wingspan on it. But there is something that needs to be taken into account here when considering this plane for a beginner, or a pilot with little experience. The full scale Decathlon is used primarily to teach aerobatics to pilots. Let that sink in for a second, it is an aerobatics trainer!!! Now in order for a plane to do aerobatics one thing that is desired is that the plane is easy to start aerobatic maneuvers with. And this ability it exactly opposite of what a beginning pilot needs. In your case as starting out with a plane you want one that is stable in flight and is hard to get into situations such as aerobatic maneuvers.

There are a lot of things with a Decathlon that can and will reach up and bite a beginning student when they are flying. It's more than just waiting to take off until the speed of the plane is up. I can assure you that landings are going to be a nightmare. Why?? Because every beginning pilot lands the same way. They cut the power and then let the airspeed bleed off and wait for the plane to settle into the ground. There is nothing wrong with that, as almost every student learns to do that. But if you do that with a Decathlon you are going to be picking up broken pieces of balsa. As the plane slows down it's not going to easily settle into the ground. It's going to reach stall speed and do just that, it's going to stall. And trust me, a stall at 10 feet off the ground is difficult for even an experienced pilot to recover from. And if the plane doesn't hit the ground when it stalls the first reaction of the pilot is going to be to slam the throttle wide open. And if you read what Minnflyer posted above this is bad too, because then the plane is going to throw into a snap roll from the torque of the engine. And  a snap roll at 10 feet or less is going to hit the ground!!!

Trust me, I'm not trying to take the wind out of your sails or put you down. But rather I want to see you make a successful transition to airplanes. This is not the plane to do it in. The best advice I can give you here is to put this plane away for now and get yourself a trainer. Learn to fly on that and then move to the Decathlon when you have some experience under your belt.

Ken</p>

what would be a good trainer? An airplane that can use the .46 size motor would be nice - since I already have one (mounted on the decathlon).

Since you already have flight experience, i would recommend an intermediate plane like these:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXVXN8&P=SM

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXDTM8&P=SM

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXSAG5&P=SM

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXH755&P=SM

http://www.thewingsmaker.com/airplan...p?name=Wingman I (GP)

http://www.thewingsmaker.com/airplan...p?name=Wingman II (GP)

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN4100

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2625

Edited: Minnflyer beat me to it!

NorfolkSouthern

Minnflyer,

thanks for the recommendations. I like the Escapade. Have you heard any strange flight characteristics about this plane? I've only known you for a brief moment on this forum but I trust your words. If it has no strange characteristics than I would order this plane right now.

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I've put together a list of planes that make good trainers and second planes. All of them on the list are proven planes that are well suited for successfully letting students learn to fly, or advance to a second plane. Check out the list here</p>



Hope this helps</p>

Ken</p></font><u><font size="2" color="#0000ff">Looking for a trainer- what's available. (Updated 01-03-2009)</font></u><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font>