BretR

My Feedback: (1)

Hello everyone,

I need some advice.

I currently am flying a Sig Kadet LT40 kit w/ a TT Pro .46 engine.

I own a GP Extra 300s Kit that I haven't built yet.

My "flight teacher" is a very experienced (30+ years) R/C pilot, and has told me that I am doing very well. I have soloed and can land pretty well. I have experience of about 12 years in flying computer flight sims.

I am thinking about my second plane to start flying probably mid-way through this season (after another couple of months practice on my trainer).

Would it be wise to build and fly the 300s as my next plane. I would fly it "cautiously" and wouldn't be trying any wild aerobatics for some time. If I work with my flight teacher with the plane for a while, would this help me in being better able to handle any "bad characteristics" the 300 might have.

The other option that others have suggested is getting a "something extra" or similiar plane to be my second plane. If possible I would like to avoid this (save some money), but I don't want to greatly risk turning the 300 back into kit

Suggestions??

If you need any more info, let me know.

Thanks for your help.

Bret.

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

Bret,
This is something you and your instructor will need to decide together. Given that i learned to fly on a Goldberg Extra (no trainer) I can't exactly tell you not to fly this as your second plane! :-)

The extra is not a bad handling aircraft by any means, it is just much more aerobatic -- and therefore less forgiving of beginner's errors. It can definitely be used as your second aircraft WITH A GOOD INSTRUCTOR AND A LOT OF PATIENCE.

Sincerely,
Mrs. AnnMarie Cross
Senior Manager, Proprietary Services and Support
Great Planes Model Distributors
[email protected]
www.greatplanes.com
www.bestrc.com
NO AUTORESPONDER

gpmikemorse-RCU

I think there would definitely be some risk with the 300s. The problem is not so much the wild aerobatics, which will be easier with the Extra than with your trainer, but the landings, which will be more difficult. If you want the 300s for your second plane, I'd recommend you stay with your trainer until you are really bored with it. Stay with it until you can land it anywhere you want, when you want, you can put it down on the mains, and let the nose settle, you can fly and land in a 20 mph wind, you can land fast, you can land slow. Stay with the trainer until you can do touch and goes repeatedly and hit the center of the runway every time. Practice your dead sticks, keeping the nose down and the speed up. Stay with the trainer until you know that you won't get any better without getting a more capable plane.

Stay with your trainer until you really understand the engine. I see a lot more crashes caused when an engine fails than almost any other reason.

In summary, if you really learn everything the trainer will teach you, and you have an instructor, the chances are you'll be fine with the Extra 300s. Still, I think I would recommend leaving it on the shelf, and going with something like a GP Easy Sport. Life is long, there will be many more planes in your life.

f2racer

Just keep the control surface travel low and you shouldn't have a problem. I recently "graduated" from my Avistar trainer to a Dragon Lady (a low-wing fully-symmetrical airfoil sport plane). The transition was very smooth. All Extras have higher wing loadings than trainers which mean that you'll need to keep the speed up. Practice some stall recoveries with your trainer and you should be all set.

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Get a Hobbico Brightstar and fly that WHILE you are building the 300. VERY good 2nd plane and is capable of many aerobatics that you could master before moving up the 300.

Jerry

Nuker

The kadet is a very docile plane that floats in beautifully. The Avistar could even be considered a second plane with it's semi-symetrical wing.

One of the main differences you will find is that the Kadet floats in whereas a more aerobatic plane you would probably have to "fly" in. You'll find most any plane more twitchy that what you are used to know now; although that's part of the fun.

I agree with everyone here. Fly the snot out of the plane you have then start on your next one. As AnneMarie advised, talk with your instructor and work with him/her. Don't be shy about going back on a "buddy box" with a new plane to give you some comfort. Remember that you won't have the same control with a 300 at first that you enjoyed with the Kadet but eventually you will. It's all about practice, patience and assistance. If you levelset your expectations, you'll find learning a whole lot easier.

Nuker

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

You might also consider a Skyvista, which is a very quick assembly low wing 2nd plane to fly until your extra is ready to rock and roll. You may also be able to find a good 2nd plane used locally inexpensively as others outgrow them as well.

Sincerely,
Mrs. AnnMarie Cross
Senior Manager, Proprietary Services and Support
Great Planes Model Distributors
[email protected]
www.greatplanes.com
www.bestrc.com
NO AUTORESPONDER

glowplug

My Feedback: (1)

Speaking of the SkyVista, a guy at our club likes them so much he has 3....2 of which he stripped down, beefed up the stucture, and recovered. The plane can do quite a bit, but he can also fly it around at a crawl. Seems to be a very nice, stable flyer.

Mike

BretR

My Feedback: (1)

WOW!

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

It looks like a lot of the suggestions are depending on my skill and how much I practice. I think I will keep my eye open around locally for a cheap (used), second plane, but in the meantime, train on my Kadet using the suggestions from everyone to help prepare for the 300.

I would definitely not be too "proud" to go back to the buddy box to learn again on the 300. I was actually planning on doing this. My instructor is very familiar with various 300 models and should be able to teach me it's flight characteristics and stall behaviour.

Any more suggestions and thoughts are welcome.

Thanks,

bret.

Wonder

My Feedback: (7)

A Sig Four* Forty makes a great second plane.

Eazy to build, eazy to fly areobatic low wing with economical 40-46 size engine.

Good Luck with whatever you choose,

Tim

ninefingers

My Feedback: (18)

Theres always tons of opinions about the best second plane, might be a good exercise for you to learn to use the excelent "search" facility provided by The Universe

I always mention the Hanger-9 (sorry AM) Advance-40. Its a low wing with excellent stall charateristics. And most of all, its a tricycle landing gear making it easier to handle on the ground. I'm sure theres others in this catagory.

I didn't start with it and ended up wrecking my second plane, because I had to get a "cool looking" Messerschmitt, but thats another story ...

BretR

My Feedback: (1)

ninefingers,

thanks for your reply. I have been using the search feature quite a bit for other info. The only problem is that I am not able to do "exact phrase" searches (i.e. "second plane"). When I do this search I get 10153 hits It shows posts that contain both words "second" AND "plane", but not restricting to posts that contain the PHRASE "second plane". If you have a suggestion about how to do this, I would appreciate it.

I had already searched for threads on the GP Extra 300s, and other than finding out that it is a very good and well flying plane (this is why I bought it), I couldn't find any info about how well a beginner would be able to handle it.

I do understand your suggestion for me to use the search (I have the same gripe of new forum users, I am new here, but not new to message board usage in general).

So, saying all of this, maybe I should restrict the replies that I am looking for with this post to the following:

"If I was to start flying the 300 as my second plane, what would I need to do with my trainer/instructor to best prepare for this? Or is this completely not suggested?"

I have already got some great replies that directly answer this question (even though I wasn't that clear in answering it), so to save people's time in reposting suggestions on good second planes, they could just answer if they have more feedback for me about the question in this post.

Again,

Thanks everyone!

Bret

hilleyja

My Feedback: (3)

The answer to your question is really very simple.

Stay away from the Extra until you feal confident you could fly any airplane. One poster aluded to the increased difficulty in landing. These low-wing acrobatic planes land at a higher speed than your trainer -- you will have to be very capable of keeping control of the plane right down to the ground. A trainer that is lined up onto the center of the runway can be let loose to float into a landing. If you treat the low-wing acrobatic like that you may stall it on landing and end up with a repair job.

I'm surprised that with all the posts on this subject no one really has a strong recommendation for a stick as a second plane. A stick (Super Stick, Ultra Stick, Ugly Stick, Big Stick, etc) still retain the capability for float to the ground landings and gives you the acrobatic capability not available with the trainer. Soon after the stick go to a funfly airplane -- it will definetly teach you how to throw an airplane around the sky and still allow you to float to a landing.

Another way to increase your confidense in landings is to try short final landings, i.e., make your downwind to base to final turn just in front of the beginning of the runway. This forces you to stay in control of the airplane right down to touch down -- once you master this it really seams to be an easier way to land than long floating final approaches, especially if you have obstacles to clear just prior to landing.

My 3 cents.

hoveralot

Hi,

I'm a certified instructor for my club and have flown those extras a lot, they are no difficult airplanes to fly once you have flown some other fast landing airplanes, at least faster than your trainer.
In our club there is a new pilot who used this extra 300 as his second plane and it took him a long time to get used to Tail dragger takeoff and the faster speed needed for landing. After this plane he used as a third plane a Super Skybolt with an OS Surpass 1.20 with pump wich ended in a bag because he wasn't prepared for this type of airplanes so walk first then run.

Just be patient and get a good second airplane like the Sticks, Advanced 40 (my favorite), Tiger 40 ARF (second favorite), Four Star 40 (excellent aerobatic trainer), easy sport or Skyvista.

I totally agree with GPMIKEMORSE who gave an excelent advice, the same i give to all the new pilots in my club.

My airplanes
Trainer: Eagle 2 FP .35
Second: Ugly Stick Royal .46
Third: Four Star .40 Royal .46

Good Luck.

DESERT RATT

My Feedback: (7)

I taught my 7 year old grandson to fly last year, a GLOBAL "RIGHTFLYER 40t" We have the GOLDBERG eagle 2 and one other one that I forgot the name of,but his favorite is the RIGHTFLYER, I just returned to service for his second plane a HANGER NINE ADVANCE 40, This plane is advertised by H-9 as an aerobatics trainer, HANGER NINE has given it way too much credit. It's not that advanced! it rolls very slow and sloppy,will not hold a knife edge, etc. BUT this is a excellent 2nd trainer (strictly my opinion) It is forgiving in the air and It has trike gear for reassuring ground handling. Even though it has SEMI-SYMETRICAL wing, it floats in for those second plane landings, My grandson has flown it a few times and likes the smoothness of it. I had converted it to tail dragger,and had a Thunder Tiger PRO 46 with tuned pipe, I switched it back to trike gear and a OS 46 la. and put one of his receivers in it.

I really believe one of the best "SECOND AIRPLANES" of all time is/was the R.C.M. FUNSTER, it was a large low wing model, built light so it would fly on a 40 size engine but any bushing 60/65 was ideal (k&b 65 sportster). An aquaintance at the field had one when I was starting to fly and had only been soloing for a couple of weeks, he handed me the sticks while the plane was in the air, I really "ENJOYED" how smooth it was,yet the BOTTOM WING gave it more response. You could keep a new "younger" persons interest because of the different variations you could build the plane, (you could make it look like WAR BIRDS, a P-40 a MIG something or other, and a few other things) It was built with the TELEMASTER flat bottom WING and was kitted by HOBBY LOBBY for years.. Anyone who has experience with this plane will I'm sure agree it was a fun plane just to fly around. (non aerobatic) It surprised me when HOBBY LOBBY dropped it. (HINT HINT, ANN MARIE)
I had one,still do have the fuselage,(son in law dorked the wing, I need to build another) I had an OS 70 FS in it. It's retired in the garage, I just may revive it for GRANDSON and ME...

RON in NEVADA

kevin mcgrath

My Feedback: (1)

SIG 4star 40.....

Mike Bell

My Feedback: (6)

Nice second plane. I had one as my 3rd plane till I plowed it in showing off!
The BrightStar was my second which I still have. Recovered it and put some floats on it.......Nice flying plane too

Mike

Fastsky

Look, if you don'yt allready have the FMS flight sim, download it, its free. Then try flying an Extra. I have 5 planes in my hangar, one is a 60 size warbird. I don't have trouble with any of my planes either flying or on the flight sim. I fly an Extra on the sim and I do ok until its time to land. Then when I am getting lined up or starting to slow down, the plane suddenly falls out of the sky, hard! Its the only plane that I still crash on a flight sim. I sure am not in any hurry to try the real RC plane any time soon! I can do enough areobatics with my other planes without being concerned that the plane is suddenly going to be buring itself in the ground! :stupid:

Shortman

My Feedback: (21)

right now im finishing my Sig SE and thats going to be my 2 plane, very good and easy to build, goes together quickly and will fly much better than any trainer. i learned to fly on a TT trainer 40 with an OS 70 SURPASS so I am quite use to those fast landings. hehe took a long time to cause the prop clearence for the plane was only an inch! flying at a school on grass fields, with polls. i finally retired the plane as it was beat up and i wanted something better, i haven't flown for many months and one day i decided to go to the field. there a guy which taught me to fly let me fly his 109d! hehe i flew it fine and even landed it! it was my first taildragger landing ever! i was amazed i flew so well having not have flown for months. but like they say get a good second plane like sig SE or 4* or what they mentioned above and you should be fine

sport10

I pretty much agree with the prior posts that you should have a plane in between your trainer and the Extra 300. I have flown quite a few of these scale like aerobats including the extra 300. They are pretty stable in the air but they are so responsive they will get ahead of a beginner quickly and you have to land a little faster than a trainer to keep from tip stalling the main wing. What you need is a plane to transition you from your trainer. I suggest looking at a plane similar to the sig fourstar or H9 Advanced 40. I went with the sig fourstar 40 for my second plane and loved it. It taught me how to build a kit and how to handle a taildragger. This plane is considered by many to be the best second plane made. It is very easy to build and has exceptional high and low speed flight characteristics. It is also quite maeuverable and fast with a BB .46 engine. This plane will prepare you to be able to handle planes like the extra 300.

BretR

My Feedback: (1)

Me again,

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have been convinced. My Extra will stay in kit form for this season

I am pretty sure that I am going to pick up the Four Star 40. In addition to the comments in this thread, I have read around quite a bit and it sounds like this would be a really good second plane.

I have one question though....

I have read that many people due the following modifications to the standard kit:
1. Decrease the wings in length by one rib
2. Extend the Rudder
3. Extend the Elevator
4. Strengthen the landing gear mount
5. Use a Sullivan tail wheel bracket

Can you guys/gals give me some input into whether or not these modifications are suggested?

Again, thanks for all of your time.

Bret.

Wonder

My Feedback: (7)

Bret,
The only modifacation I did was the tail wheel.

As far as the landing gear,some reinforcing is okay but don't reinforce to much. I would rather have it break clean and replace it, than rip a big section of plane away.

I don't think altering the control surfaces would be a good idea for a second plane. More for an advance flyer.

I noticed in another post, TWOSTIK has a Four* 40 for sale framed up RTC for $75.00 if you are interested. That is about what you would pay for the kit new.

Just my thoughs, check with others first.
Tim

SwampFlier-RCU

Don't overlook the Skyvista
It is a very good flyer

vegas mossie

What about a Tiger 60?

kevin mcgrath

My Feedback: (1)

Would not bother with any of the mods at all.build it stock,master flying it,and then worry about mods.....but by then you may be ready for the extra.....