Hello all. My landings are pretty much textbook from the approach down to about 2 ft above the runway, thanks to many hours on the
the flight simulator before attempting to really land. However, I bounce my .40 trainer 4 out of 5 landings. I've probably landed about 40 times so far. The worst thing that has resulted is damage to the wooden prop (are plastic props more rugged in this regard?). One out of every 5 landings is totally perfect, just wheels turning, and I don't know why. Why am I bouncing? Any comments on flare techinques that my help me land smoother?

Frustrated
Superfunguy

You have the correct idea which is practice. Practicing the same mistake over and over will strengthen the mistake however.

One of two possible solutions:
1. Just before touching down add a little bit of throttle to ease the plane onto the runway. Just gliding the plane in is much more difficult.
2. Check to see you have enough elevator throw to stall the plane. At 200 feet altitude cross in front of the flight line just as if landing. Add elevator evenly and watch the plane slow and stall. Get acquainted with the stall characteristics of the plane. Many pilots "lawn dart" the plane into the runway and then are surprised when it bounces (and breaks the prop).

I prefer the APC brand of props for better pull and not breaking as much. Once I learned to land better the prop replacement rate went way down.

Remember to land with the throttle! If the engine quits nothing you do with the elevator will make it fly back to altitude.

On approach, I keep the speed quite a bit above stall speed (but not too fast), and let the plane sink. If you slow down too much on final, you "run out of elevator" when you get down, and can't flare properly.

When the plane is a foot or two above the ground, I pull back on the elevator. The goal is to level off just a couple of inches above the ground. I keep pulling more and more elevator to keep the plane off the ground until the stick is all the way back. By flying an inch above the ground like this, airspeed is at a minimum when the plane touches down. If I'm lucky I can touch down on the main wheels and roll a few meters before the nose wheel touches down...

Hope this helps!

You're coming in too hot. Back down the throttle some, keep the nose up and fly the plane all the way in. When you're about 2 feet off the ground begin your flare. Remember control your altitude with throttle and pitch with elevator. Oh,,,and don't forget,,,,practice, practice, practice.

On thinking about it with respect to all of your replies, Thank you, I believe I may be too slow on my landings. I have been landing
with the engine (.40) at idle which is not enough power to move
the plane on the ground. I do recall that on the good landing I
was going faster. I have been thinking "float the plane in" and I
do not feel that I have much elevator control. For instance after the first bounce, which may be 1-2 feet high, I do not think that
I have any control over the plane at that point, except for throttle.
Incidently, if I bounce too high I will floor it and go around again.

Superfunguy

Bump the throttle a bit just before you begin your flare.

You are pretty much guaranteed to bounce if the nose gear touches before the main gear. Most trainer gear tends to get bent some and this changes the attitude the plane sits at with all three wheels on the ground. Try bending the main gear at least back to normal or enough that the plane sits level on the ground. Then when you flare at the right speed the mains will touch first and no more bounce. Keep pulling back and holding that nose gear off. If the plane wants to climb you are going too fast.

If you have a tricycle landing gear, push in a little down elevator just as the rear wheels touch down.

This will push the nose down and hold the plane on the ground.

Keep practicing!

Pat

You are probley coming in too fast which is creating the plane to get lift when it hits a bumb un the field! I land fast but smooth it is ok to land fast as long as they are as smooth as a baies bottom But you can go very slow and just touch it down with out buouncing! And PLastic props are stronger then wooden!

If you are bouncing on landing, then you are too fast at touch-down. The plane will not bounce back up into the air if you are slow. As far as the faster landings being smooth, you are just simply flying the airplane to the ground and just happen to time it right so that it is smooth. Still, that is not truly landing an airplane. A correctly executed landing will be at stall or slightly above at the touch-down. This is how you prevent a bouncing landing. If the airplane is too slow to fly any more, it will not bounce back up into the air. Full elevator deflection at touch-down is generally desired for true and correct landings.

Too fast is definitely the problem. Trainers float, and trying to land one with more than idle (or too fast period) usually results in bounces.

It sounds like you're impatient on your landing attempts. Do NOT try to land the plane, let it land when it's ready. If you are trying to put it on the ground, it's moving too fast. Just hold it a foot or so above the runway and keep adding elevator. If the plane is moving slowly enough, adding elevator will not make it climb, it will allow the wing to stall about the time the plane touches down. (Called a "flair".)

Good luck & Practice.
Dennis-

What I teach my students is to not flare on landings but to adjust the throttle to govern decent and fly the plane to the ground. It seems to greatly reduce the tendency to dribble the plane down the runway.

Asside from technique, plane setup can help too. If it is a trike, move those rear wheels 1/2 inch back and it will stick down solid when you land. Your landings will look like a pro did it very time.

one good echinque to flare is to keep speed as slow as it is comfortable and control altitude with throttle and speed with elevator...not very easy to learn but once mastered touch down becomes MUCH easier

Sdavied is giving good advice. If you're bouncing you still have flying speed. If you stall two feet off the ground and land hard that is another problem.

In lower performance airplanes (models or full scale) you can get away with the thought that throttle controls altitude and elevator airspeed, but the truth is that throttle controls airspeed and elevator controls attitude. Airspeed and attitude can be traded to achieve altitude. In a higher performance aircraft this tendency is more noticeable.

Practice makes perfect. I would practice with the goal to be a full stall landing as described by Sdavied. You say you have 40 landings. That isn't all that many so be patient.

I like Sandal's method. Keep it as low as possible without touching (full Idle). When the plane stalls, it will settle that last inch, and it doesn't have the airspeed to get back up again.

But in any case, when you DO bounce, add throttle! Don't chase the plane with your elevator because regardless of how much throw you have, it just won't be effective at that slow speed.

If you're loosing elevator control, then yes you're trying to land too slow, what I do is to go to idle and do my approach so a bleed off speed, then on final I go up 2 or 3 clicks of the throttle(if the wind is strong you may need more) for a second or two and then go back to idle, just to give some air on the rudder and elevator.

What is happening with the airplane just before you touch down?

If the plane just flys normally down to the ground and bounces, you are too fast. If you are coming in nose-high or level, then flairing and still bouncing, you are just a bit too fast, but it might just be potholes in the runway or landing gear setup.

But, if the nose drops a bit before touchdown, causing the nosewheel to touch first even while you are holding elevator, you are too slow, you just stalled and "pancaked" it.

It's most likely that you are too fast, it's the most common. Lots of good advice above.

As a side note, the throttle position to land will be lower than what is required to move the plane on the ground, espeically if you have a grass runway. Even on pavement, the friction in the wheels and such is enough to keep the plane from moving at a throttle setting that is plenty high for a landing approach.

Just a thought. I noticed similar problems with my Avistar. Some of the experienced fliers even said that I was landing "too hot". I noted that and tried to slow my landings down, but still had problems. After a crackup and fixing it, I decided to check my CG again, and it was a little forward (3/4") of what the manual suggested. Now a lot of Avistars owners I met for some reason need tail weight and I had originally had the battery mounted behind the rear wing holdown dowel, right behind the former there. It took an additional ounce approx. out at the tail to make it balance out perfectly at the recommended CG. Now it takes off better and lands better. You might want to check that.

Good Flying,

Tom

I think all the advice above is predicated on having your CG set up properly...so make sure that is dialed in.

Nose gear first is called a porpoise, and can be really nasty. It is always preceded by a stall (unless you flew the plane nose first into the ground).

The goal of all landings is for the plane to quit flying aerdynamically just a few inches off the ground. In most cases this will mean you will be all the way back on power and most or all the way back on elevator (a bit at a time as you flare). Lot's of wind can change things a bit, but not much (in this case you can fly the airplane to the ground and cut the flare short as you will have less ground speed). You can have air flowing over the wings enough to fly and still not have any groundspeed at all. In this case, you might want to land across the runway. ;-)

Keep practicing and you'll be okay.