Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
02-19-2010 | 07:45 PM
#1
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From: , AR
Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: larger;">Hello all,
Been reading the forums here for the last couple of days. I can say there is a lot of good advice here.
I'll start off to say that my flyng experience is self taught. First with a Axe c/p heli, which cost me more in parts than the copter did! I then took batteries out of the heli, and bought another transmitter, and wound up biulding a slow stick. After lawn darting the first one a few times and learning I built another one, with brushless motor. Great machine for learing on. (Once when I was working in Washington State I landed it in a 50 foot pine tree. After waiting for 2 hours, I finally fell out.) New prop, minor adjustment, and it flew fine. Had many more mishaps, but I won't bore you with those.
Yesterday I bought a Alpha One Trainer, and put it together, and batts on charge. I then proceeded this evening for my first test flight. Did all the usual checks after putting the wing on, run up, etc. I then took off, and I have to say a nerve wracking experience. Airelons are far more sensitive than evevator only, and flys fast enough to make you on edge even at half throttle. Anyway, all went well and after 5 mins in the air i decided to try a landing approch. WRONG
I think I stalled, and to make a long story short it lawn darted the ground for about 12 ft high. I went over to it, and the prop (no suprise) was busted and carb had a plug of dirt in it. I had the throttle down to idle when it happened.(probably the first mistake)
I have posted pics of the damage, and would like advice on how to fix it, because to me it don't look that bad.
Damage is primarily behind the rear dowl post for some reason, and under the ultrakote I can feel a crack about 5" long. You can see the chunk that broke behind where the wing goes on. Wing and all other control surfaces were intact.
Thanks for any advice, since I have no idea how to fix yet, and I do not know anything about ultrakote.
</span></span>
Been reading the forums here for the last couple of days. I can say there is a lot of good advice here.
I'll start off to say that my flyng experience is self taught. First with a Axe c/p heli, which cost me more in parts than the copter did! I then took batteries out of the heli, and bought another transmitter, and wound up biulding a slow stick. After lawn darting the first one a few times and learning I built another one, with brushless motor. Great machine for learing on. (Once when I was working in Washington State I landed it in a 50 foot pine tree. After waiting for 2 hours, I finally fell out.) New prop, minor adjustment, and it flew fine. Had many more mishaps, but I won't bore you with those.
Yesterday I bought a Alpha One Trainer, and put it together, and batts on charge. I then proceeded this evening for my first test flight. Did all the usual checks after putting the wing on, run up, etc. I then took off, and I have to say a nerve wracking experience. Airelons are far more sensitive than evevator only, and flys fast enough to make you on edge even at half throttle. Anyway, all went well and after 5 mins in the air i decided to try a landing approch. WRONG
I think I stalled, and to make a long story short it lawn darted the ground for about 12 ft high. I went over to it, and the prop (no suprise) was busted and carb had a plug of dirt in it. I had the throttle down to idle when it happened.(probably the first mistake)
I have posted pics of the damage, and would like advice on how to fix it, because to me it don't look that bad.
Damage is primarily behind the rear dowl post for some reason, and under the ultrakote I can feel a crack about 5" long. You can see the chunk that broke behind where the wing goes on. Wing and all other control surfaces were intact.
Thanks for any advice, since I have no idea how to fix yet, and I do not know anything about ultrakote.
</span></span>
02-19-2010 | 08:00 PM
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From: North Little Rock,
AR
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
iceman3ar:
May be time to find a club. They can help tons!
You might want check the fire wall (where in engine is mounted), make sure it's tight and also check just ahead of the tail feathers for damage.
Happy Landings!
May be time to find a club. They can help tons!
You might want check the fire wall (where in engine is mounted), make sure it's tight and also check just ahead of the tail feathers for damage.
Happy Landings!
02-19-2010 | 08:08 PM
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From: ft payne, AL
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Way to go!!! Seriously, congrats on getting out there and goin for it. Now you have your first crash out of the way.
You are right , it doesnt look to bad. I would cut away the covering to get a good eye on it to be sure of the damage. espcially where you say that 5in crack is. If it is just a crack you can apply some CA glue and it will basically weld it back solid. It will be stronger than the balsa around it.
I have never built a plane that had rubber bands holding the wing. But I am sure you need to make sure that area is not weak. Reinforce that area if it is damaged. From the pics, the damage looks superficial.
And if it was me, I would cut away those engine cheeks, just for easy access to the engine.
You are right , it doesnt look to bad. I would cut away the covering to get a good eye on it to be sure of the damage. espcially where you say that 5in crack is. If it is just a crack you can apply some CA glue and it will basically weld it back solid. It will be stronger than the balsa around it.
I have never built a plane that had rubber bands holding the wing. But I am sure you need to make sure that area is not weak. Reinforce that area if it is damaged. From the pics, the damage looks superficial.
And if it was me, I would cut away those engine cheeks, just for easy access to the engine.
02-19-2010 | 08:14 PM
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From: , ON, CANADA
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Sorry to hear about the flight!
It was a good thing the engine was at idle!
Had the carb been opened, dirt and related will have gotten into the engine, and caused major damage internally.
It is a good idea to check that firewall as stated above, and repair the crack. If you fix this, and don't want to wait for an order of covering,
use clear (not the translucent type) scotch tape to hold the covering for the time being - If it works on my Cub, it'll work for you!
Join the nearest club, and get an instructor to check your model after the repairs - he might spot something you hadn't.
Happy flying!
It was a good thing the engine was at idle!
Had the carb been opened, dirt and related will have gotten into the engine, and caused major damage internally.
It is a good idea to check that firewall as stated above, and repair the crack. If you fix this, and don't want to wait for an order of covering,
use clear (not the translucent type) scotch tape to hold the covering for the time being - If it works on my Cub, it'll work for you!
Join the nearest club, and get an instructor to check your model after the repairs - he might spot something you hadn't.
Happy flying!
02-19-2010 | 08:15 PM
#5
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Your probably going to have to take the engine off, clean it up (check the firewall, "t" nuts, to make sure they are still in place) and the for the covering torn off, you may either have to re-cover, or just find the ultracote coloring of that, cut a little piece, and iron it over. (wont look the best). Good Luck!
02-19-2010 | 09:34 PM
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From: SeaTac - Angle Lake, WA
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Do as others have already stated. Take the engine off and check the firewall, examine all the glue joints and pull the covering from the damaged area and inspect and repair. Do find a local club in the area and get some instruction. It save you some frustration and some $. Spend $100 dollars and go get the Real Flight G5 basic simulator. It's save you even more money as you spend hours practicing on the computer. My helicopter skills have slipped from not flying them for many years and the simulator probably saved me a few hundred dollars in parts replacements.
02-19-2010 | 09:57 PM
#7
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Definitely take your carb off to see if any dirt got through. If you find any, you need to take the whole engine apart and do a clean up. Just a few grains of dirt can ruin your piston and liner.
And don't take it as being mean, but you really need to find a club. Your prior experience really should have taught you that, but better late than never. A club with instructors and an AMA membership (required at most clubs) will pay for themselves many times over in good advice given. If you aren't willing to do that, then find a new home for the glow plane while you still have something to sell and stick to park flyer foamies (which can be lots of fun themselves).
And don't take it as being mean, but you really need to find a club. Your prior experience really should have taught you that, but better late than never. A club with instructors and an AMA membership (required at most clubs) will pay for themselves many times over in good advice given. If you aren't willing to do that, then find a new home for the glow plane while you still have something to sell and stick to park flyer foamies (which can be lots of fun themselves).
02-20-2010 | 04:30 AM
#8
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Should float in to land (into the wind) almost hands off at idle if the centre of gravity, trim and throws are set right I would think.
A experienced flyer would check all of this for you.
Im new and joined a club, buddybox has saved me totalling my trainer 4 times already, money I saved is now sitting in my nexttwo planes that Iwill fly when my abilitygrows.
I am by no means a slow learner with most things and fly quite well after a few months with confidence but when the panic sets in its good to have back up.
A experienced flyer would check all of this for you.
Im new and joined a club, buddybox has saved me totalling my trainer 4 times already, money I saved is now sitting in my nexttwo planes that Iwill fly when my abilitygrows.
I am by no means a slow learner with most things and fly quite well after a few months with confidence but when the panic sets in its good to have back up.
02-20-2010 | 08:11 AM
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From: Jackson,
MS
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
ORIGINAL: iceman3ar
<span style=''font-family: Arial;''><span style=''font-size: larger;''>Hello all,
Yesterday I bought a Alpha One Trainer, and put it together, and batts on charge. I then proceeded this evening for my first test flight. Did all the usual checks after putting the wing on, run up, etc. I then took off, and I have to say a nerve wracking experience. Airelons are far more sensitive than evevator only, and flys fast enough to make you on edge even at half throttle. Anyway, all went well and after 5 mins in the air i decided to try a landing approch. WRONG
I think I stalled, and to make a long story short it lawn darted the ground for about 12 ft high. I went over to it, and the prop (no suprise) was busted and carb had a plug of dirt in it. I had the throttle down to idle when it happened.(probably the first mistake)
I have posted pics of the damage, and would like advice on how to fix it, because to me it don't look that bad.
Damage is primarily behind the rear dowl post for some reason, and under the ultrakote I can feel a crack about 5'' long. You can see the chunk that broke behind where the wing goes on. Wing and all other control surfaces were intact.
Thanks for any advice, since I have no idea how to fix yet, and I do not know anything about ultrakote.
</span></span>
<span style=''font-family: Arial;''><span style=''font-size: larger;''>Hello all,
Yesterday I bought a Alpha One Trainer, and put it together, and batts on charge. I then proceeded this evening for my first test flight. Did all the usual checks after putting the wing on, run up, etc. I then took off, and I have to say a nerve wracking experience. Airelons are far more sensitive than evevator only, and flys fast enough to make you on edge even at half throttle. Anyway, all went well and after 5 mins in the air i decided to try a landing approch. WRONG
I think I stalled, and to make a long story short it lawn darted the ground for about 12 ft high. I went over to it, and the prop (no suprise) was busted and carb had a plug of dirt in it. I had the throttle down to idle when it happened.(probably the first mistake)
I have posted pics of the damage, and would like advice on how to fix it, because to me it don't look that bad.
Damage is primarily behind the rear dowl post for some reason, and under the ultrakote I can feel a crack about 5'' long. You can see the chunk that broke behind where the wing goes on. Wing and all other control surfaces were intact.
Thanks for any advice, since I have no idea how to fix yet, and I do not know anything about ultrakote.
</span></span>
Your problem is a double whammy; as a beginner, you neither know how to fly well (with the obvious result), and you don't yet know how to repair or build well, a markedly important shortcoming for someone who has already learned how to crash well. Just kidding.
So by getting in with a local club, you'll first get good advice on the repair, but more importantly, you'll for sure get some help with learning to fly, and that will lessen your chances immensely of having to repair again any time soon.
So yea, join a local club. You need them, and they need you.
02-20-2010 | 09:37 AM
#10
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Welcome to the RCU forums, iceman3ar!!
Sorry about the crash.
Evidently, your plane and yourself were not ready for take-off yet.
These are no times to waste money.
Your experience can be expensive and painful, but some help and knowledge will turn it into a happy experience and quick advance.
Before flying again, you need to:
1) Find an experienced instructor or join a club (click on members list above and search for people in your area, to whom you can send e-mails or private messages).
2) Fix your plane.
3) Reduce the throws of all controls to a minimum.
4) Learn several basic things about repair, setting and trimming.
I hope the information of the following links will help you:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=67
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=98
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=84
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=24
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=23
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=37
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=41
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=102
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=141
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=142
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=144
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20
Regards
Sorry about the crash.
Evidently, your plane and yourself were not ready for take-off yet.
These are no times to waste money.
Your experience can be expensive and painful, but some help and knowledge will turn it into a happy experience and quick advance.
Before flying again, you need to:
1) Find an experienced instructor or join a club (click on members list above and search for people in your area, to whom you can send e-mails or private messages).
2) Fix your plane.
3) Reduce the throws of all controls to a minimum.
4) Learn several basic things about repair, setting and trimming.
I hope the information of the following links will help you:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=67
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=98
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=84
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=24
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=23
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=37
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=41
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=102
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=141
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=142
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=144
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20
Regards
02-20-2010 | 12:34 PM
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From: Palm Bay, FL
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
You should fix more than the slight damage the trainer received. You need to get the aileron torque rods adjusted to give you less throw or on the control horn of the servo (move them out). I assume the radio included with this RTF package doesn't have adjustable ATV/end point. Reinforce the firewall whether it needs it or not, no ARF I've ever owned was sufficiently glued by any means. Get out some epoxy and hit the joints on the firewall, landing gear block, and those dowels inside the fuselage. The plank behind the rear dowel is cosmetic, you can throw tape over it and get in the air faster if the structure seems sound to you. Give it a little twist test to see if the structural integrity wasn't compromised in the crash. Consider this trainer disposable and to teach you to land, you're almost there and this trainer looks the same as any seasoned trainer I've ever looked at. Sounds like you stalled it. The simulator is a great idea, you can just walk into a Hobby Town and see a simulator set up for your free use and decided which type to buy. Check the nose gear. Flush out the dirt with some fuel. Replace the prop. A flying buddy or nearby club may get your going a lot further than trial and error. Also check the clunk in the tank, it's probably thrown forward and is stuck. Empty the tank and shake it back to the rear of the tank and make sure you hear it rattle inside.
The hidden cost of AMA and club dues may make the club idea more costly than buying 2 or 3 trainers.
The hidden cost of AMA and club dues may make the club idea more costly than buying 2 or 3 trainers.
02-20-2010 | 10:36 PM
#12
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Good advice above, but I'd have to disagree with the last part. AMA and club dues for a year will cost about what an ARF trainer will set you back, but in return you will get instruction on how not to break airplanes. Setup help, flying technique, repair technique, buying advice, all are part of the hobby and can't be learned very well on the internet. A club will not only make learning faster and easier for you, but will also help you save your next plane from wrecks that cost you your time and money.
02-20-2010 | 11:20 PM
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From: Palm Bay, FL
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
You assume the "club" instruction is going to do that automatically, but not always in practice. Maybe it's because we have too many flying days a year here in Florida?
Sure, they're supposed to save the beginner by giving them their experience freely for setting up the plane, etc etc.
The forums are a great example of how that will give them conflicting opinions though all day long. I've seen the situation before with three guys trying to tell the new guy their way is best, and don't listen to the other two. I've seen clubs ignore the new guys, snobs walk away like they don't want to be bothered, and crashes result anyway after all the talking is done. Some swear by the Alpha trainer products for example, and others such as yourself, insist the Avistar is the way to go. Everyone is different. It's too sweeping a comment to say everyone will benefit from joining AMA and a club. In some cases, it's just as unreliable as going it alone if not more.
Example
One guy I know being an RCU member by the way, brought his new Nexstar to a club by recommendations on the forum here, and he found a club member there to get him flying for the first time on the 3rd week, using a buddy cord. Sadly, a know it all member showed up 15 minutes before they closed down at dusk, and he proceeded to fire up his low wing sport plane in a hurry, to get a flight in between getting out of work and heading home. What he forgot to check before taking off, was the frequency board, and shot down the trainer, as well as crash his own plane into the safety wall.
He flipped out on the beginner saying it was all his fault, in spite of an instructor helping him! To make it even more sickening, the guy bullied the beginner into paying for his plane or he wouldn't be allowed to return to the club again!
So much for clubs that follow AMA rules, and welcoming new people to the hobby. I'm sure it's 1 in 1000, but it's still happening.
Example two
I've seen people sneer and laugh at people showing up with 27Mhz radio shack planes (IRKS), or grumble about another rookie on the runway getting in their way of having a good time (Sebastian). Most of the EP users don't even show up at the clubs anymore, they come to our renegade field (compound) of happiness, and nice guys that help out because they want to. We're as big as two local clubs in our area. We see familiar faces come to our field to fly from time to time. Some say they're Rossi is too loud to fly, so they fly it here, some say the same as I'm reporting here, they're tired of the politics in the meetings and at the field.
I've enjoyed this open field for 10 years now.
That's $570 in AMA savings,
$850 in club fees. I've been flying since the 80s and taught myself, later getting help to progress when a more experienced guy showed up at our field. So how much money is that in savings? I didn't crash my trainer either
except for nose gear bends, thank you Kadet Senior.
I could buy a radial engine today with the money I've saved plus a plane to stick it on.
I didn't fly Avistars, and learned just fine on windy days. Texas wind is pretty nasty though, I've been there. Lots of renegade fields exist there because people don't want to travel 50 miles to get to a club. Nothing is wrong with Avistars, it's just another way to go, for some, not for all. Some find it too light/small/advanced.
Bottom line, he's got pretty far already on his own,
and landing is just something we all had to learn with practice.
He's almost there, in my opinion. it's not the most popular post, but it's just as much fact.
Some clubs are for the birds. Some clubs are blameless. To each his own.
Sure, they're supposed to save the beginner by giving them their experience freely for setting up the plane, etc etc.
The forums are a great example of how that will give them conflicting opinions though all day long. I've seen the situation before with three guys trying to tell the new guy their way is best, and don't listen to the other two. I've seen clubs ignore the new guys, snobs walk away like they don't want to be bothered, and crashes result anyway after all the talking is done. Some swear by the Alpha trainer products for example, and others such as yourself, insist the Avistar is the way to go. Everyone is different. It's too sweeping a comment to say everyone will benefit from joining AMA and a club. In some cases, it's just as unreliable as going it alone if not more.
Example
One guy I know being an RCU member by the way, brought his new Nexstar to a club by recommendations on the forum here, and he found a club member there to get him flying for the first time on the 3rd week, using a buddy cord. Sadly, a know it all member showed up 15 minutes before they closed down at dusk, and he proceeded to fire up his low wing sport plane in a hurry, to get a flight in between getting out of work and heading home. What he forgot to check before taking off, was the frequency board, and shot down the trainer, as well as crash his own plane into the safety wall.
He flipped out on the beginner saying it was all his fault, in spite of an instructor helping him! To make it even more sickening, the guy bullied the beginner into paying for his plane or he wouldn't be allowed to return to the club again!
So much for clubs that follow AMA rules, and welcoming new people to the hobby. I'm sure it's 1 in 1000, but it's still happening.
Example two
I've seen people sneer and laugh at people showing up with 27Mhz radio shack planes (IRKS), or grumble about another rookie on the runway getting in their way of having a good time (Sebastian). Most of the EP users don't even show up at the clubs anymore, they come to our renegade field (compound) of happiness, and nice guys that help out because they want to. We're as big as two local clubs in our area. We see familiar faces come to our field to fly from time to time. Some say they're Rossi is too loud to fly, so they fly it here, some say the same as I'm reporting here, they're tired of the politics in the meetings and at the field.
I've enjoyed this open field for 10 years now.
That's $570 in AMA savings,
$850 in club fees. I've been flying since the 80s and taught myself, later getting help to progress when a more experienced guy showed up at our field. So how much money is that in savings? I didn't crash my trainer either
except for nose gear bends, thank you Kadet Senior.
I could buy a radial engine today with the money I've saved plus a plane to stick it on.
I didn't fly Avistars, and learned just fine on windy days. Texas wind is pretty nasty though, I've been there. Lots of renegade fields exist there because people don't want to travel 50 miles to get to a club. Nothing is wrong with Avistars, it's just another way to go, for some, not for all. Some find it too light/small/advanced.
Bottom line, he's got pretty far already on his own,
and landing is just something we all had to learn with practice.
He's almost there, in my opinion. it's not the most popular post, but it's just as much fact.
Some clubs are for the birds. Some clubs are blameless. To each his own.
02-20-2010 | 11:36 PM
#14
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From: SeaTac - Angle Lake, WA
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
ORIGINAL: LNEWQBAN
Welcome to the RCU forums, iceman3ar!!
Sorry about the crash.
Evidently, your plane and yourself were not ready for take-off yet.
These are no times to waste money.
Your experience can be expensive and painful, but some help and knowledge will turn it into a happy experience and quick advance.
Before flying again, you need to:
1) Find an experienced instructor or join a club (click on members list above and search for people in your area, to whom you can send e-mails or private messages).
2) Fix your plane.
3) Reduce the throws of all controls to a minimum.
4) Learn several basic things about repair, setting and trimming.
I hope the information of the following links will help you:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=67
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=98
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=84
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=24
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=23
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=37
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=41
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=102
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=141
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=142
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=144
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20
Regards
Welcome to the RCU forums, iceman3ar!!
Sorry about the crash.
Evidently, your plane and yourself were not ready for take-off yet.
These are no times to waste money.
Your experience can be expensive and painful, but some help and knowledge will turn it into a happy experience and quick advance.
Before flying again, you need to:
1) Find an experienced instructor or join a club (click on members list above and search for people in your area, to whom you can send e-mails or private messages).
2) Fix your plane.
3) Reduce the throws of all controls to a minimum.
4) Learn several basic things about repair, setting and trimming.
I hope the information of the following links will help you:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=67
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=98
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...?article_id=84
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=24
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=23
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=37
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=41
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=2&ID=102
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=141
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=142
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=144
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20
Regards
02-21-2010 | 12:21 AM
#15
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
ORIGINAL: nitro-pilot
You assume the ''club'' instruction is going to do that automatically, but not always in practice. Maybe it's because we have too many flying days a year here in Florida?
Sure, they're supposed to save the beginner by giving them their experience freely for setting up the plane, etc etc.
The forums are a great example of how that will give them conflicting opinions though all day long. I've seen the situation before with three guys trying to tell the new guy their way is best, and don't listen to the other two. I've seen clubs ignore the new guys, snobs walk away like they don't want to be bothered, and crashes result anyway after all the talking is done. Some swear by the Alpha trainer products for example, and others such as yourself, insist the Avistar is the way to go. Everyone is different. It's too sweeping a comment to say everyone will benefit from joining AMA and a club. In some cases, it's just as unreliable as going it alone if not more.
Example
One guy I know being an RCU member by the way, brought his new Nexstar to a club by recommendations on the forum here, and he found a club member there to get him flying for the first time on the 3rd week, using a buddy cord. Sadly, a know it all member showed up 15 minutes before they closed down at dusk, and he proceeded to fire up his low wing sport plane in a hurry, to get a flight in between getting out of work and heading home. What he forgot to check before taking off, was the frequency board, and shot down the trainer, as well as crash his own plane into the safety wall.
He flipped out on the beginner saying it was all his fault, in spite of an instructor helping him! To make it even more sickening, the guy bullied the beginner into paying for his plane or he wouldn't be allowed to return to the club again!
So much for clubs that follow AMA rules, and welcoming new people to the hobby. I'm sure it's 1 in 1000, but it's still happening.
Example two
I've seen people sneer and laugh at people showing up with 27Mhz radio shack planes (IRKS), or grumble about another rookie on the runway getting in their way of having a good time (Sebastian). Most of the EP users don't even show up at the clubs anymore, they come to our renegade field (compound) of happiness, and nice guys that help out because they want to. We're as big as two local clubs in our area. We see familiar faces come to our field to fly from time to time. Some say they're Rossi is too loud to fly, so they fly it here, some say the same as I'm reporting here, they're tired of the politics in the meetings and at the field.
I've enjoyed this open field for 10 years now.
That's $570 in AMA savings,
$850 in club fees. I've been flying since the 80s and taught myself, later getting help to progress when a more experienced guy showed up at our field. So how much money is that in savings? I didn't crash my trainer either
except for nose gear bends, thank you Kadet Senior.
I could buy a radial engine today with the money I've saved plus a plane to stick it on.
I didn't fly Avistars, and learned just fine on windy days. Texas wind is pretty nasty though, I've been there. Lots of renegade fields exist there because people don't want to travel 50 miles to get to a club. Nothing is wrong with Avistars, it's just another way to go, for some, not for all. Some find it too light/small/advanced.
Bottom line, he's got pretty far already on his own,
and landing is just something we all had to learn with practice.
He's almost there, in my opinion. it's not the most popular post, but it's just as much fact.
Some clubs are for the birds. Some clubs are blameless. To each his own.
You assume the ''club'' instruction is going to do that automatically, but not always in practice. Maybe it's because we have too many flying days a year here in Florida?
Sure, they're supposed to save the beginner by giving them their experience freely for setting up the plane, etc etc.
The forums are a great example of how that will give them conflicting opinions though all day long. I've seen the situation before with three guys trying to tell the new guy their way is best, and don't listen to the other two. I've seen clubs ignore the new guys, snobs walk away like they don't want to be bothered, and crashes result anyway after all the talking is done. Some swear by the Alpha trainer products for example, and others such as yourself, insist the Avistar is the way to go. Everyone is different. It's too sweeping a comment to say everyone will benefit from joining AMA and a club. In some cases, it's just as unreliable as going it alone if not more.
Example
One guy I know being an RCU member by the way, brought his new Nexstar to a club by recommendations on the forum here, and he found a club member there to get him flying for the first time on the 3rd week, using a buddy cord. Sadly, a know it all member showed up 15 minutes before they closed down at dusk, and he proceeded to fire up his low wing sport plane in a hurry, to get a flight in between getting out of work and heading home. What he forgot to check before taking off, was the frequency board, and shot down the trainer, as well as crash his own plane into the safety wall.
He flipped out on the beginner saying it was all his fault, in spite of an instructor helping him! To make it even more sickening, the guy bullied the beginner into paying for his plane or he wouldn't be allowed to return to the club again!
So much for clubs that follow AMA rules, and welcoming new people to the hobby. I'm sure it's 1 in 1000, but it's still happening.
Example two
I've seen people sneer and laugh at people showing up with 27Mhz radio shack planes (IRKS), or grumble about another rookie on the runway getting in their way of having a good time (Sebastian). Most of the EP users don't even show up at the clubs anymore, they come to our renegade field (compound) of happiness, and nice guys that help out because they want to. We're as big as two local clubs in our area. We see familiar faces come to our field to fly from time to time. Some say they're Rossi is too loud to fly, so they fly it here, some say the same as I'm reporting here, they're tired of the politics in the meetings and at the field.
I've enjoyed this open field for 10 years now.
That's $570 in AMA savings,
$850 in club fees. I've been flying since the 80s and taught myself, later getting help to progress when a more experienced guy showed up at our field. So how much money is that in savings? I didn't crash my trainer either
except for nose gear bends, thank you Kadet Senior.
I could buy a radial engine today with the money I've saved plus a plane to stick it on.
I didn't fly Avistars, and learned just fine on windy days. Texas wind is pretty nasty though, I've been there. Lots of renegade fields exist there because people don't want to travel 50 miles to get to a club. Nothing is wrong with Avistars, it's just another way to go, for some, not for all. Some find it too light/small/advanced.
Bottom line, he's got pretty far already on his own,
and landing is just something we all had to learn with practice.
He's almost there, in my opinion. it's not the most popular post, but it's just as much fact.
Some clubs are for the birds. Some clubs are blameless. To each his own.
i agree
the club thing isnt bad and i enjoy having other people to talk with.
if you dont want to join a club you dont have to. i started on a slowstick same as you and taught myself to fly.
i decided to move up to a 40 sized spad trainer and joined a club (i got free membership)
the nitro is a lot different than the slowstick but after 10 or so flights you should be fine, its just surviving those 10 flights.
i was never trained, my clubmate took the plane up for a maiden, then landed and handed me the sticks, i took off (never flew w/ ailerons before) and had at it. my first landing was horrible but because the plane was a spad it survived quite well (busted a prop and poped the gear off)
that spad is from www.spadflyer.com (the 48in trainer) and cost 50 bucks w/ shipping, its a great value bacause its so cheap and durable, it flies great for a piece of pvc. dont forget to order the back of 50 nylon bolts because you will break a ton of them learning how to land
if you survived with the slowstick you can survive w/ the nitro. you just have to survive the learning curve, landing is the biggest issue
02-21-2010 | 12:28 AM
#16
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Thanks, tschuy.
I have been at the same point where iceman3ar is now, and I know how much time and money can be wasted without proper information and guidance.
Trainers are to learn, not to be damaged.
I have been at the same point where iceman3ar is now, and I know how much time and money can be wasted without proper information and guidance.
Trainers are to learn, not to be damaged.
02-21-2010 | 06:18 AM
#17
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 368
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From: Sterling, IL
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
Wow, you actually flew tho a bad landing, your half way there, but plenty of info and even warnings going on, people over all are great and will want to assist you especially on the learning stages...
Lately been forming our own small group of flyers and been outstanding fun, really enjoying it todate..all make mistakes simply part of the learning curve..
Agree on the simulator, the better ones will match some of the models now available but is a free FMS simulator that will help on the orientation as likely some of your issue on the landing and feel for coming in to land...no excuse not to have a sim, here's the FMS with control box only $25 bucks, still use mine !! Yes are better ones available but this one does work indeed ..
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXSJR9&P=ML
I currently fly electric at the moment, but will mention on the monokotes, these plastic coverings can be cut away and replaced rather well, are even monokote irons, small investments out there at your LHS Local Hobby Shop, if you want a serious fix...the material is plastic like and has glue on the underside, careful on wing fixes too much heat they can warp..just go easy...
Obviously you have a feel for flight, patience, fun times ahead...Only The Best ..<>...
Lately been forming our own small group of flyers and been outstanding fun, really enjoying it todate..all make mistakes simply part of the learning curve..
Agree on the simulator, the better ones will match some of the models now available but is a free FMS simulator that will help on the orientation as likely some of your issue on the landing and feel for coming in to land...no excuse not to have a sim, here's the FMS with control box only $25 bucks, still use mine !! Yes are better ones available but this one does work indeed ..
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXSJR9&P=ML
I currently fly electric at the moment, but will mention on the monokotes, these plastic coverings can be cut away and replaced rather well, are even monokote irons, small investments out there at your LHS Local Hobby Shop, if you want a serious fix...the material is plastic like and has glue on the underside, careful on wing fixes too much heat they can warp..just go easy...
Obviously you have a feel for flight, patience, fun times ahead...Only The Best ..<>...
02-21-2010 | 11:46 AM
#18
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 226
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From: Fort Collins, Colorado
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
All good advice but one question this post raised for me is the potential of dirt inside the carb or worse yet further inside the engine. Is flushing with fuel sufficient? And just what does that mean? What is the proper procedure? Not that I'd recommend the poster do this but I'd want to take the engine apart and clean it, just to remove any doubt I might have of dirt inside. What procedure would the more experienced recommend?
02-21-2010 | 11:47 PM
#19
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
02-22-2010 | 09:58 AM
#20
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
The club or no club debate comes up more often than I'd care for it to, to the detriment of new flyers. Nitro-pilot, I hate to break it to you but you are a member of a club. It may not have meetings or dues or rules, but it does have a flying site and a regular group of guys who use it and apparently get along with each other. That's what a club is, and beginners need one. However he does it, the OP needs to get someone to at least do a trim flight on his bird and show him how to take off and land properly. If the helper were also kind enough to show him how to tune his engine and do basic aerobatics that'd be even better. Whether the person who helps him is an AMA Intro Pilot program instructor or just a nice guy is beside the point. The truth is though that there aren't many instructors who aren't part of a club and there aren't many clubs that don't require AMA and dues. So, unless there is a guy who is willing to come and help him without those things, he has the choice to either pay for his training by destroying airplanes and having to fix and replace them, or he can pay for it with club and AMA dues. I'd vote for the latter as the experience is more fun and much faster to actually get to the fun flying part.
02-22-2010 | 05:41 PM
#21
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,624
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
ORIGINAL: jester_s1
The club or no club debate comes up more often than I'd care for it to, to the detriment of new flyers. Nitro-pilot, I hate to break it to you but you are a member of a club. It may not have meetings or dues or rules, but it does have a flying site and a regular group of guys who use it and apparently get along with each other. That's what a club is, and beginners need one. However he does it, the OP needs to get someone to at least do a trim flight on his bird and show him how to take off and land properly. If the helper were also kind enough to show him how to tune his engine and do basic aerobatics that'd be even better. Whether the person who helps him is an AMA Intro Pilot program instructor or just a nice guy is beside the point. The truth is though that there aren't many instructors who aren't part of a club and there aren't many clubs that don't require AMA and dues. So, unless there is a guy who is willing to come and help him without those things, he has the choice to either pay for his training by destroying airplanes and having to fix and replace them, or he can pay for it with club and AMA dues. I'd vote for the latter as the experience is more fun and much faster to actually get to the fun flying part.
The club or no club debate comes up more often than I'd care for it to, to the detriment of new flyers. Nitro-pilot, I hate to break it to you but you are a member of a club. It may not have meetings or dues or rules, but it does have a flying site and a regular group of guys who use it and apparently get along with each other. That's what a club is, and beginners need one. However he does it, the OP needs to get someone to at least do a trim flight on his bird and show him how to take off and land properly. If the helper were also kind enough to show him how to tune his engine and do basic aerobatics that'd be even better. Whether the person who helps him is an AMA Intro Pilot program instructor or just a nice guy is beside the point. The truth is though that there aren't many instructors who aren't part of a club and there aren't many clubs that don't require AMA and dues. So, unless there is a guy who is willing to come and help him without those things, he has the choice to either pay for his training by destroying airplanes and having to fix and replace them, or he can pay for it with club and AMA dues. I'd vote for the latter as the experience is more fun and much faster to actually get to the fun flying part.
I've seen new members and novices arrive who expect everyone to drop what they are doing to help them out.
Thankfully these are very few in number. More often than not our members go far out of their way to help a novice.
The dues and membership help us all make sure that we have a field to fly at, and a CHANCE of dealing with people who are all to often chomping at the bit to close our hobby down through lawsuits, referendums and laws.
Those who are all too quick to poo-poo the club recommendation often do not realize the damage they they may be inadvertently helping to cause...
e.g. if it's OK to fly w/o AMA membership, certification, etc... then "Joe Bear Buzzed flyer" can take his brand spanking new .60 plane he purchased off a buddy, and fly it on the other side of the Interestate... w/o anyone interfering with him! The same plane that ends up crashing into traffic causing a multi-vehicle pile-up and many injuries....
Nah, that will never happen, will it? Hmmm one of the magazines reported just that last month.
02-22-2010 | 09:53 PM
#22
RE: Alpha 40 trainer Crash, need help
100% agreed, opjose. These toys are quite dangerous and expensive if misused or used foolishly. Given the total cost of this hobby over the years, club dues and AMA fees are jack squat. I think it's great that some people have land to fly on with no hazzards around, but I still fail to see the appeal of going it alone. They spend more time and money breaking stuff due to inexperience than they would have getting real instruction.
