which stick is the rudder should be on?
i have only flown 3ch planes, so i am used to the rudder on the right.
on the dynam 4ch plane i just got, the rudder is on the left, with the throttle. is that common?
i think i want to switch the servo wires on the Rx, so that the rudder is where i am used to it being. rolling the plane when i mean to turn it is not good[:@]

Left Stick:
Left and Right : Rudder
Up and Down: Throttle


Right Stick:
Left and Right: Aileron
Up and Down: Elevator



It is common to be in this configuration because with a four channel plane, you want to make your turns mainly with the ailerons where as with a 3 channel plane you can only make your turns with rudder because thats all you have. It will be a little different at first when you taxi because to steer on the ground you will use only the left stick to turn. But, once you are airborn you want to turn left and right with the ailerons using the right stick (which is what your probably use to)

I second what david george says, at lest is mode for america.  Sounds like you haven't had the pleasure of flying with airelons yet.  Much smoother than rudder only.

There are 4 different modes for assigning channels to stick movements ...

We predominantly use Mode 2 in the US. Some of our club members that are into 3D&pattern competition prefer Mode 1. Some transmitters allow you to configure your Tx to any one of these different modes.

The rudder turns the plane by causing it to roll, because the yaw generated by the rudder changes the wings' angle of attack. So when you fly a four channel plane, the aileron is your primary steering control in the air. That's why it's normally on the right stick. The main difference between three and four channels is that with four you initiate the roll directly, instead of indirectly with the rudder.

thanx for the answers.
i am going to have to "de-program" myself. i am so used to turning with the rudder.
to turn with airelons, do i start a roll the give it some up elevator?

yes thats exactly what you do

Yes, using ailerons to bank and elevator to pull the nose around the turn is actually the preferred method of turning. It will take you a very short time to get used to it.

You're already used to turning with your right hand, so very little will change.

Rudder on the left is normal but I understand what you are going through. I just built a little 3ch plane and decided to keep the rudder on the left stick, I kept forgetting it was there and I kept trying to set up my turns with my right stick and the plane wasn't doing anything until I remembered it was rudder controled on the left stick. I was really having problems. When I got home I set the plane up with rudder and elevator on the right stick and the world became an easier place to live. I just couldn't get used to making a turn with rudder only on the left and kept looking for my ailerons. You will get used to having a normal 4ch plane with a little time. Ailerons are your friend!!!

I don't think so.
You are "programmed" to control the throttle with your left hand and the steering of your model cars with your right hand.
Using Mode 2 shown above will keep the same coordination in your brain.

Forget about turning airplanes with the rudder, you have been turning your three-channel models by banking them.
Like motorcycles, airplanes need to bank while turning.

The combination of wing dihedral and rudder input induce a roll, and the turn just follows.
However, that does not happen for many models with no wing dihedral, even when rudder is input.
Rudder only function is to yaw the model around a vertical axis.
Aileron only function is to roll the model around a longitudinal axis.

Just fly like you have been flying; later on, you will learn to use the rudder for other maneuvers but turning.

Yes, you also need feeding elevator for a turn at constant altitude.

You know I see some benifits to mode 1 and I might try it one the sim sometime. Being able to fly both would be great. But I remember the brainwork I had to go through just to teach myself to fly. I think it would be almost as difficult as starting over, and trying to remember both would take some real rewiring of the brain. -BW

Personally, I know how my brain works (or more accurately, how it DOESN'T work) and if I even TRIED Mode 1, it would probably screw me up for life!

I couldn't even FATHOM the idea of being able to do both! [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Yeah I will have to agree with you there, I think I will put that idea on hold.-BW

Mode 2 - North American Standard

Right stick - pitch and roll

Left stick - speed and yaw

Don't think surfaces, think function.


Right stick is pitch ( elevator,elevons or canard) and primary roll/turning surface (rudder, ailerons orelevons typically)


R/E Throttle airplane, - That primary roll/turning surface is the rudder - it goes on the right stick. The rudder works with the dihedral in the wings to bank/roll the plane.

On a 3 channel aileron/elevator/throttle plane, ailerons go on the right sitck. They are the primary roll/turning surface.

On an elevon airplane, lke a flying wing, there are neither ailerons or rudder, the rollfunction is on the right stick.

On a V tail(called ruddervators) throttle plane ( no ailerons or rudder) the roll/rudder function goes on the right stick.


What is the point? Don't think surfaces, think function.

The primary roll surface, whatever it is, goes on the right stick. You fly just as you always do regardless of what surface is on the right stick as long as it is the primary turn/roll surface. This way you NEVERhave to worry where the rudder is. THATis the right way to set up a plane in mode 2.

But I definately disagree with this.-BW

Excellent!

With what do you not agree? For the benefit of our new pilot, please expand on your disagreement. Let's discuss it.

A quote from [link=http://www.fraserker.com/helilessons/modes/Radio%20Transmitter%20Modes.htm] Abeginners guide Radio Transmitter modes. [/link]
<blockquote><dl> <dt><font face="Arial">Mode 2 (also known as Mode B)
This is the "normal" mode that the majority of pilots use.</font> </dt> <dt><font face="Arial">This has pitch and roll control on the same (r/h side) stick, in a manner similar to the way the primary controls of an full size aircraft operate. The (l/h) side stick has the yaw and throttle controls. (see primary flight controls for an explanation of these terms) The perceived advantage is that as pitch and roll are the primary means of controlling the models flight path, having them on the same stick makes it easier to co-ordinate the two.</font> </dt></dl></blockquote>I'm guessing that this information is what prompted the disagreement. Like any unknown internet source it may or may not be gospel. If, however, you buy into to it as the basis for orienting the controls to the sticks - it places pitch and roll controls on the right side.

Our club has a excellent instructor / aerobatic flyer that is no longer an instructor candidate - he has chosen mode 1 for benefits in flying aerobatic maneuvers. Our loss

Good stuff.

Yes, that is what I disagree with. But it has nothing to do with Mode. I think the Rudder should never be controlled by the Aileron stick for ANY reason. The rudder is very important to learning to fly an airplane correctly. When Beginners go from 3 to 4 channel control they usually only learn to use the rudder as little as possible, resulting in alot of unhelpful banking on landings and takeoffs. I have recently stated this in other threads dealing with crosswind landings. I have not been flying for as long as a lot of people but I have taught myself and it just never made sense. I appologize for not clarifying my statement, I should have taken the time to explain my opinion.-BW

I have never seen that specifc material before but would like to have the link.

What you posted is in 100% agreement with what I wrote.



I understand and agree with your desire to see people make better use of the rudder. As a glider pilot ( primarily) I make extensive use of the rudder as Iwork thermals. Coordianted turns are the most efficient.

However I must point out that there is no such thing as "the aileron stick", there is the roll control. We may speak of it as the aileron stick but technically that is incorrect.

But learning the proper use of the controls and their locationhas little to do with surface provides those funtions.Your concern is that, when a pilot adds an additional axis of conttrol they are not making the effort to learn to use it to best advantage. That is an entirely different discussion and I agree with you.

What you are saying is that you would like to see more use of coordinated turns and better use of yaw during landings. I agree completely.

So, let's walk the learning tree.

Many electric and glider pilots start out on R/E models. Many of these are on single stick radios. That stick controls pitch and roll. There is no separate yaw control. You can fly a model airplane without separate yaw control. You can't fly it without pitch and roll.

This would also be true of an elevon plane, like a flying wing. Pitch and roll, no yaw. On the same right or single stick. No transition going from single to dual stick radios.

When moving to a 2 stick radio you can fly that same plane by putting the R and E or the elevons on the right stick, which again controls pitch and roll. There is no separate yaw control. Nothing new to learn. No transition effort from single to dual stick.

When you go to a 4 channel plane, you still have pitch and roll on the right stick, just as always. Now you have added the ability to have a new control, yaw control, and have a new skill to learn.

So, again I say, this has nothing to do with the surfaces in play but upon functions and what functions you have on your plane. A R/E plane or anelevon planedoes not have a separate yaw control. These two configurations are wildly popular.

If we start on a 2 stick radio on a R/E plane with R on left and E on right, we have Yaw control and pitch control. The normal roll control is not there on the right stick, where it belongs.

Now you move to a 4 channel aileron ship, or a 3 channel elevon ship, and suddenly your roll control moved from the left stick to the right stick. NOWyou have to remember what kind of plane you are flying in order to know what controls you have. <u>This is an invitation to disaster</u>.

In order to be consistent across all airplanes of all configurations, regardless of the surfaces they have, pitch and roll on the right, for all configurations at all times. Then the pilots reflexesalways know where to go and that is the number onekey to safety.

Adding the use of yaw can be learned and incorporated into the total.

In fact, onmy R/E gliders, Ihave the rudder on the right stick, on the roll control channel as that is its primary purpose.I have that mixed to the left stick at 50% so that I can reach foryaw control if I wish but will not have so much that I am likely to over roll the plane. If I am looking for yaw control I still find some on the left.

As I said, think function not surface. The alternative is inconsistant and therefore, in my opinion, dangerous.

aeajr - just follow the link in my post and you'll end up in "Mode Nirvana" ... bummer, the smiley face button ain't workin' ...

BW- none of the 4 "modes" have the rudder and aileron on the same stick. You guys are on the same page.

It was the 3 channel I was refering to, sorry again.-BW

Thanks.  I didn't notice the link.

Controlling the ailerons and elevator is also the way it's done on full scale aircraft such as military jets. If it was easier/better ANY other way they would have done it.

Post #19 is an excellent explanation; I have learned that I was wrong!

Could you explain your statement a little better for me?

"In fact, on my R/E gliders, I have the rudder on the right stick, on the roll control channel as that is its primary purpose. I have that mixed to the left stick at 50% so that I can reach for yaw control if I wish but will not have so much that I am likely to over roll the plane. If I am looking for yaw control I still find some on the left."

Sure.

When you fly planes thathave both ailerons and rudder and make use of the rudder, it is normal to go for the righthand to roll and the left hand to yaw.

On my AVA for example, there is only the rudder which produces both roll and yaw.

Rather than having to remember which plane,what surfaces it hasand where they arelocated, Ican actually access the rudder from either hand. So if I am looking to bank the plane to turn I naturally do that with my right hand, banking the plane, then pulling elevator as needed, same as Iwould with ailerons or elevons.

My Futaba 9C allows me to mix controls in this fashion. Ihave the left stick set up at 50%so that Iget mostly yaw and less banking so I am less likely to over control the rudder when all Ireally want is the yaw effect. If I am looking to yaw the plane, such as on a landing,then I naturally go for the left hand.

So, both hands find what they want, even though I only have one surface doing the work.

I think function rather than surface. What do I want to do, not what surface do I want to use to do it.

BTW, on an elevon plane that has no rudder, like a flying wing, nothing gets mixed to the left hand as there is no yaw control on manyelevon planes. There is only pitch and roll.