Hello all.

Bought a used Saito .45 4 stroke on ebay this am. $68 including shipping... needs a valve cover, but I wasn't worried about that. I'll mill up a new matched pair from some alum block...(likely will air slot them too) when I go home later. Haven't seen it yet, but the thought did cross my mind to make it open rocker... but I have see the lube system first. In the meantime I'll just strap this cover in place with slightly longer bolts for now. Had all the rest of the right descriptors for someone like me and knows non-model engines. Item #220642069330 if your interested in looking.

Those of you that followed along on my previous posts know that I really like the Telemaster 40, but that requires building (which is actually ok too)... but I spotted this
on Nitro Planes planes and wondered what you all thought.

<h1 id="item-contenttitle">STYLE 40 - 56" Nitro Gas RC Airplane Trainer ARF (Red)</h1><table> <tbody> <tr> <td> <table> <tbody> <tr> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td><center> <div class="code">Item#: 90A267R-Style40-Red</div> </center></td> </tr> <tr> <td><center></center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> <td> <div class="itemform productInfo"> <form action="https://order.store.yahoo.net/cgi-bin/wg-order?yhst-17210252890263+90a267r" method="POST"> <font color="#ff0000" size="5"> <div class="price-bold">$49.00</div> </font> </form> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
It appears a new bird and has no reviews and I'm sure is china built... At 56" and designed for .40 2 cycle... I'm thinking with a slightly stronger pitch on the .45 Saito 4c it would do good... maybe. Looks like some diheadral... but the picture is at a bad angle to see it real well. I also cant tell if its flat bottom wing or not. There is very limited data in their listing. Low cost... IF it flys good. Looks like a steerable nose wheel (well castored obviously). And since all trainers have at least a 50/50 chance of being wrecked... $49 plus shipping wont kill me to learn with.

Any one know anything about this one?

What about other non-"toylike" trainers that would be suited to the .45 4c?



"Practicality aside - nothing is impossible" Dave

Looks like a good choice to me (thinking about the price).

I would bench test the saito when ever its on your hands, if the engine is complete (with out talking about the valve covers) is a very good deal and if it happens to be a little weak, try changing the ring and bearings, it is cheap and will give new life to your engine and of course will haul that trainer very good.

Good luck on that.

Alfred.

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">This was the Saito's description on ebay...

"Up for a NO RESERVE auction is this SAITO 45 4-stroke R/C Airplane Engine. This was given to me from a friend at my local flying club, so I havecarefully taken it apart, thoroughly cleaned it, and lubricated it nicely. The engine seems to have good compression and turns over smoothly. There is no detectable play in the drive shaft, bearings, or piston connecting rod. The carb is clean and smoothIt needs a replacement engine valve cover as shown in the picture; however, the engine has run fine w/o it and undoubtedly it could use a new glo-plug and perhaps a newer muffler. Other than the one valve cover, cosmetically the engine is in good shape - no fins are damaged and there are no tooling marks that I could see. For certain you cannot beat SAITO for quality and reliability. I am selling AS-IS."

I'll bench it and check it out when it gets here.

Any one know where I can get a manual on it?

Dave

</font>

I don't know anything about that plane but I'm thinking you may be a bit underpowered with the Saito .45.

The seller also stated this while we talked bak and forth a bit.

"The damaged valve cover still works, it's just that my friend at the club had over tightened on of the cover screws and it broke through the top of the cover is all. When I took apart there was quite a bit of gunk in it that I cleaned out but boy I'll tell ya that I was amazed at how smooth the piston rod bearing and the crankshaft bearings were for being so old. I was afraid that the crank bearing would need replacing, but it seemed pretty good to me. It's dry though, now, and needs to have some good engine oil put through it again. It was previously mounted on a 80" w/s Rumpler Taube (WWI) model and it powered that plane very nicely. He gave me the plane too "

Hopefully the little 45 is solid yet... guess we'll see.

Dave

I hope the bottom cover is clear for this model.
If it is also red, you will have a hard time with orientation.

It seems that the engine is a little weak for that frame (5 lb).
I believe it is equivalent to a .30~.32 2-stroke.

May be a .25 trainer would be a better match; something like this:

http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=67

For a trainer, bigger is better; so I would recomend you to find a frame (used or new) for your 2-stroke .60 engine.

I'm always hesitant about buying used engines from anybody that I don't know or trust. I know that there are a lot of good used engines sold every day, but there are also a lot of bad ones. And you can't always tell a bad engine from the looks of the outside of it as a little bit of Dawn Power Dissolver or some anti-freeze will do wonders at making the outside of an engine look clean and new again. But glow powered engines can be absolutely ruined from one tank of fuel where the engine was run too lean, and seeing how so many pilots like the try and tune their engines for max rpm's it's real easy to lean them too far and fry the engine. Because of this I won't buy a used engine from somebody I don't know personally and trust. I

I'm not trying to knock you as I do hope that you get a good engine when it comes it, but rather just trying to let you know what not all engines that look great on the outside look good inside. Many people get burned like this when they buy engines that "look almost new" only to find they are a piece of junk. I would also be weary of the seller's claim that he took the engine apart to inspect it. There are many that mess up an engine taking it apart and they really don't know what they are doing. Especially on a 4-stroke as there are some parts that need to be properly aligned when put back together.

Best of luck when your engine comes in.

I also agree that a 45 4-storke engine is going to be a little weak for a 40-sized plane. A Sig LT-25 would be more inline with the right size for an engine such as this.

Nitro planes has some decent planes out there, but their customer service has always been lacking. Also, the instructions that come with their planes usually are nothing more than a few drawings showing where everything goes. But if you have problems getting the plane put together you can always come here for help!!!   that's what we're here for.

Hope this helps

Ken

G'day There are several versions of the Saito 45. The Mk 1 version was quite rare and it is unlikely you have one. If you have the quite common Mk 2 version and not the later Hi Cam version it will run beautifully but produce very little power. The later Hi Cam version should be fine. I currently have a Mk 2 and while it runs well, it is really very underpowered for a 45 size four stroke. It would not fly my Sig Kadet Senior and it is very light although quite large. A very old OS FS 40 would fly the Kadet though my current ones are powered by Saito 56, Saito 72 and Laser 70 four strokes.

In either case, the suggestion of the Sig LT 25 is a good one. It is a large but light trainer and will work well with smaller engines. I have successfully flown my LT 25 with a 30 four stroke (just nice), Leo 46 on FAI fuel (overpowered but very economical) and even an OS AX 46 (way overpowered). A 25 two stroke also flew it well.

Can you show us a photo of the engine? That will tell us what it really is. Like RC Ken, I would be a bit worried about an engine that has been pulled apart to "clean" it. Unless you know what you are doing, you can get the timing wrong, disturb the ring seating and generally do evil things to an engine by pulling it apart.

Saitos are great engines. I have 14 of them. But ... they don't take kindly to mis-use. I have a Saito 120 that was owned by a friend and given to me in bits. He had run it lean on fuel with synthetic oil only (I always use some castor in my fuel) and he had destroyed it internally. It looked OK on the outside but the bore is scored, the ring has gone soft from being overheated and the bearings were a mess of rust. It is not worth repairing.

I have been caught too with second hand engines. I bought an Enya 40SS on eBay. "Low use, beautiful condition etc etc". It looked ok but the piston and liner had been abused and were totally worn out. Luckily I bought it very cheaply and Mk Ken Enya in Japan still has spares for many of his older engines and I was able to get a new piston and liner at a very reasonable price so it was still a good buy. This is not the case with all second hand engines though and you can be left with junk.

Hope your engine is fine and I haven't ruined your day. I'm about to head out for some flying. There will be a couple of Saitos going with me.

Thanks Ken and Mike...
<center>
</center>

Hopefully this picture comes through for you...Item # 220642069330 on ebay if it doesn't. Can you tell which this is?

I'll ask the seller exactly what he dissembled. He is an RCer and from our chats sounded like he new what he was tallkig about. In fact, he mentioned he was a seller on this RCU. He said the same thing you did about ebay engines too.

Dave

I've built/rebuilt alot of engines and maybe the costs are too high... but wouldn't a hone job , rings, and a couple bearings do it wonders? I imagine these little engines run real hot realtive to conventional water cooled non-model units. Maybe the tolorances needed cant allow for a slight overbore?

From the looks of the pictures on the Ebay ad it looks like this engine has had quite a bit of use.

The problem with used engines is that many times you wind up putting enough money in parts where you could have just purchased a new engine instead. And even with all the new parts in it, it's still not going to run like a new engine.

Ken

That reminds me... assuming an engine of decent quality to start with... and was set right... how many gallons of fuel burt is typical for defining worn out? Seen that several times... on ads "only x gallons of fuel run through it". Made me wonder.

Thanks LNEWQBAN

I've thought hard about using the vintage 60 but if I hurt it being 41 years old and triple mint it would be a sin to me. I also wondered about differential coverings for orientation.

Dave

Theres no way to tell. Too many variables. Especially with 4 strokes.

You are welcome, Dave.

It seems to be non-important, but it is very much.
During the first steps, contrasting colors can be the difference that makes some beginners quit while others succed.
Just another difference between full scale and model airplanes.

Read this article about proper colouring for RC aircraft:

http://web.archive.org/web/200802142...com/color.html

You are doing good, just hang in there.
RC is hard at the beginning, but soon becomes a lot of fun.

G'day From the photo I think you have one of the older Mk 2 Saito 45s. This is the earlier "low cam" version and the same as the one that I have. This will need a light model such as the Sig LT 25. Anything larger or heavier will probably be a bit too much for it. As I said before, my original Sig Kadet Senior would not fly with one of these engines but would fly (just) with an OS FS 40. It used to fly well on the later 45S Hi Cam engine and it is possible I believe to fit the cam from the later engine (which is used in several of the smaller Saitos) but I have not done it.

Frankly, I would be looking for a later, more powerful engine. The other problem for this engine is that should you have a prang (and prangs are pretty common when you are learning) you may damage the engine and the usual things that get damaged are the carby and its mounting on the rear cover plate. These early engines had quite a small mounting with just one bolt holding the carby in place. I have managed to break several of the later "two bolt" types as in a prang, things come flying forward and hit the back of the engine bending needle valves, spray bars and crushing the inlet tube. You might be better to hang on to this engine until you are more competent then put it in a small scale model or powered glider where its relatively modest power output would not be a problem.

Sorry to be the bringer of not so good news.

Nitroplanes trainers have wings that like to come off...Make sure you re-glue everything.