G'day

Just after some input into what would be an acceptable amount of wind for someone learning to fly to go up in? The reason Iam asking is that I have recently bought a sim and want to start practicing with a bit of wind added but I'm not sure how much I should be throwing into the mix and from what direction (ie front on or cross winds)? I figured that it is probably best to practice on the higher side of "acceptable" so I am a bit more prepared. I will be building an LT-40 and hope to learn on that.

Cheers

First of all the airplane doesn't know if it's windy or not...only you know....
If you're on a sim then make the wind gusty and variable....watch the angle of bank in turns

Well, the plane does know it's windy until you get it in the air. The Lt-40 will flip over in about 16mph winds unless handled properly. So I would reccommend starting with 15mph winds until you get the hang of how to handle it on the ground, taxi both with the wind and into the wind until you get competent with it. Then work up from there to about 30mph winds because with a typical .40 to .50 sized engine, the Lt-40 will only do 40 to 50mph anyway.

Hugger yes any high wing airplane will flip over on the ground when taxiing especially turning to a cross wind.....I meant in flight.....the means to help counter the flip over is opposite ailerons kept the upwind aileron up.

When initially learning to fly (before your first solo) you should stick to a 10kt limit. Anything over that, due to the turbulence associated with the higher winds, It becomes counter productive. You are still learning what each control input does and how the A/C reacts to these inputs. When the A/C is getting thrown around by turbulence it's hard for the newbie to tell if it's them or the turbulence. Also the down winds can get too quick for your newly aquiring skills. After you have learned enough to fly solo on the lighter days try it with more wind and turbulence.

I dont know if any of these other guys read your question or not comments are not answering your question... be paticent and fly on a day with no greater than a 10 MPH wind... once you have a few flights under your belt you will have not problem flying ine more wind but trust me fly in calm conditions to start.. it is best for you and your plane

I think you all missed his question, he is flying on a sim first. No reason to stick to calm conditions on a sim, that's what a sim is for, improving your skills. You can't improve if you don't test your limits. By the way, 10kts is a little over 12mph and you should be perfectly capable of handling the Lt-40 in 12mph winds if you can handle the sim at 15mph or more.

That is bad advise for a new guy. Of course the plane knows if it's windy or not.That old adviseis only good in a wind tunnel with constant velocity windalway from the same direction.That isn't life at the flyingfield.

I've watched my 4*60 drop like a rock when I made a turn down wind when I didn't have enough airspeed for the turn. A high wing like the LT40 tends to blow over on the ground when the wind is at a right angle. The wind never blows a constant speed, so the gusty and variable is a good place to practice.Today I had my old Senorita out to the field. The wind was pickingup and if I applied enough throttle to make ground speed up wind, the plane was climbinglike crazy. The plane reacts to thewind velocity and direction.Someplanes react differently. Low wing heavy planes areless of a problem ina strong wind, but theproblem is still there.A highwing trainer is difficult in winds, especially cross winds. Going out on the runway and picking theplane up after it flipped on in back when Imade the turn down the runway, sure takes thefun out of the day.

All that aside, if you are learning to fly. 5 to 10 mph is about top end for a beginner. If your instructor is good, he can take off and land in much stronger winds, and give you a taste of how theplane handles in the wind. After a while, you pickup how the plane you are flying handles andthe wind doesn't become quite the problem it used to be. My personal rule ofthumb is that when the planes on the benchesstart blowing off, it's time to call it a day. Here is the link to the weather station at the college just about a quarter mile from our runway. http://www.wunderground.com/weathers...?ID=KCASANLU17 This is for the current day. If you look at this post tomorrow, you will have to change the day displayed to reflect today, Sept 9

Our wind conditions are basically the same, but sometimes quite different locally as we have mountains, ponds, tree lines buildings etc that all change the flow and velocity of the wind. Today. we all packed it up around 10:45 as things were starting to blow off the tables. Also, my senorita was a real bear to get on the ground by then.

We thend to overestimatewind speed. Man, it blowing a galeout there, only to find out that it is gusting to 15mph. Actual 5mph is goodtraining wind. 10mph is on the edge and no one should try to learn to fly at 15.After you have some hours under your belt, push the limits of your planeand you.

Don

I think you all missed his question, he is flying on a sim first. No reason to stick to calm conditions on a sim, that's what a sim is for, improving your skills. You can't improve if you don't test your limits. By the way, 10kts is a little over 12mph and you should be perfectly capable of handling the Lt-40 in 12mph winds if you can handle the sim at 15mph or more.

By all means, when you get around to flying the real Lt-40, start with calmer conditions and preferably with an instructor. But if you're doing fine on the sim, don't be afraid of 5 to 10mph winds after your first couple of solos.

Many R/C people who have been flying for years are afraid of the wind. Anything over 5-10MPH and they stay on the ground. They miss a lot of fun that way.

I got the point but Don is correct in the real world. Who cares on the sim, it's just a teaching aid and gives you a bit of an idea. I always had fun with heavy wind and gusts on the sim.
This morning it was dead calm, as the day went on the wind kicked up. My planes may not know it's windy but they sure react to it!! I had a student up with his 4*60 and on a turn the plane got all out of sorts for him. I had him keep flying but I landed for him. Even my Hots was getting kicked around. The sim will teach you to keep watching the plane and to react to what the wind does to it.
I like 10-15 with gusts on the sim just for fun. My sim is the G-2 so the newer models are a lot better. Have fun with it then try it for real. Your reactions will be better. Funny thing is, people think 5 MPH is 15 in the real world.

I've been told that old saw about "the model doesn't know the wind is blowing". Horse-hockey. My planes are very enlightened and know very well whether it is windy or not. If you can't tell you're not flying a very sensitive model; especially crosswind. I have to compensate a great deal on windy days for symmetrical maneuvers like I would have with little wind.

Practice with 25 mph on the sim and the 10 mph days at the field will be cake.

Your idea is very good, wazzbat.

As adviced above, try wing plus gusts from any direction (crosswinds are the worst for landing and take-off's).

Rudder is the name of the medicine for real wind and gusts; learn how to use it properly as soon as you can:

http://masportaviator.com/2004/02/27/using-the-rudder/

Don't worry, you will be ready when your trainer gets ready to fly and your instructor is ready to teach you the joy of flying.[sm=wink_smile.gif]

Sigh... when you turn downwind the airplane's airspeed DOES NOTCHANGE, therefore it won't stall just because of the turn. The ground speed will increase and that is all. Please understand that once the airplane is airborne the only "wind" the plane encounters is that caused by the thrust of the engine pulling it through the air (and no, I'm not talking about the propwash). There was another factor that caused your plane to drop (some other reason for the stall). I hope Idon't sound abrasive, but you may want to look into the theory of an airplane's true and indicated airspeed to get a better understanding of what is going on with your plane in flight.

Neat! Where does the sidewind go in your magic neutral world? The stuff that makes your loop drift downwind so you enter at an upwind spot relative to your point of reference as to where you finish. The stuff that makes (or allows) you to crab in with your nose pointing in a direction different from your direction of travel. The stuff that raises one wing in a situation where the landing strip doesn't correspond to the wind direction. The stuff that lifts a flat-bottomed or semi-symmetrical winged model suddenly . . . or drops it just as quick when it stops.

The model may not sense it; but I'm on the ground with the rest of the hard 'ol earth and I sure notice the model being effected relative to my position when there is wind.

I agree with you, and Don, and Charlie, I was responding to other posters who seemed to miss the question the OP had about the sim. My models also know when it's windy out and I have a few that like it better that way. My Sig Somethin Extra likes a 10mph wind just fine, so does my .60 sized T-34, and my Avistar for that matter. As I'm sure some of you have also, I have learned a few tricks for determining wind speed:

First off, it takes about 3mph before you really even notice that there is any wind. The American flag we fly at our club field is about half unfurled in 5mph wind, 3/4 or more unfurled at about 10mph, and starched straight out at 15. At about 10mph, my .40 and .60 sized models that are sitting around on the ground waiting to fly will start to tip over if not faced into the wind. Also, in the summer, the leaves on the oak and poplar trees around here don't turn over completely till about 10mph. Above 15mph, it's a little harder to judge but there are a few guys I fly with that have GPS weather stations that give pretty accurate wind speed and I have flown many days in 25mph+.

Lol, I was afraid I would get a rise like this. You are referring to wind gusts or wind shear, charlie p, that cause your wing rocking. And yes, I too have eyes and a sense of relative motion which make the groundtrack of my airplane obvious. I was referring to a constant wind speed condition which would not cause the gentleman's 4 star to stall in the downwind turn. I would just hate for a newbie to be afraid of something that isn't a real concern (the downwind turn causing a stall part) - they already are worrying enough, lol. However, in a turn, an airplane will stall at a higher airspeed than it will when strait and level. Therefore, if this 4 star was already getting slow, then forced into a turn creating more than just 1g, a stall could have occurred due to the turn having NOTHING to do with wind. Like I said, I hope I don't sound like a jerk - the "downwind turn" thing may be a pet peeve of mine I guess, lol.

That's because you're expecting it, anticipating it, playing it from learned experience. We forget how it used to blows our minds when the model does things we didn't input. Don't you remember the first full symmetrical model you ever flew? Gosh, it isn't effected by wind much at all! But think back to the first few trainer landings when it was bouncing and bucking and your knees were knocking. That's wind. Thirty years ago I learned to fly R/C with two-channel gliders. We went looking for wind (updrafts) and boy, is a two-meter sensitive to the slightest changes. You find them because one wing lifts before the other.

I have flown in 25 mph winds with .40 size models. But there are gusty days when the mostly 10 mph West wind is interrupted with 20 mph Northerlies that I choose to leave my 15 pound 34cc gasser on the ground. Too much work near the ground. We have winter flies on snow and some years you have to hold the model down until you throttle up to keep it from skidding backwards or weathercocking sideways. Smeared a few in such conditions, but it's all part of the rote and ritual of a good chili fly.

The problem is most begginers are not aware of aerodynamic theories, fluid physics, and full scale pilot instructions. All they need to know at first is: "Be carefull making turns downwind", or upwind for that matter!

Speed is life.

Well put!

And altitude is health!

There seems to be another theory that is missing from this argument. Momentum. An abrupt change in wind direction or azimuth doesn't cause an abrupt change in the aircraft aerodynamics. A body in motion tends to stay in motion, and a body a rest tends to stay a rest.

A quote I saw a while back seem to apply here.
" in theory, reality and theory are the same. In reality, they are not"

There is Theories and there is reality. You debate the theories and experience the reality.

Don

Uh oh..., actually, a stiff wind shear can cause an airplane to stall when already flying near the stall speed (like while setting up to land for example). This has caused fatal accidents involving large airliners actually. So no, momentum doesn't really save airplanes in every case.., actually, I can't think of any.

Well said.
As I mentioned in another thread about this same argument, inertia, momentum, gravity, ground speed, and air speed all play a part in flying. The thing a lot of full scale guys don't realize is that they have airspeed indicators that keep them from flying on the edge of a stall in most cases. Most full scale pilots wouldn't dare fly a Cessna in 60mph winds at just above stall speed and make a downwind turn at an altitude of 250 feet agl. But that is about equall to what an RC pilot is doing when he flies an Avistar 50 feet high in a 12mph headwind at 1/2 throttle and then makes a turn downwind.