RE: High wind technique
 

Not on any plane I know of. Rudder use creates yaw; to turn, the plane has to bank. "Steering" with the rudder of a four-channel plane is necessary on final approach only when either the ailerons are ineffective at low speed (not unusual with trainers) or just at touch-down (to avoid hitting the ground with a wing tip). AA good pilot can use opposite rudder and aileron to slip for altitude loss or to keep the plane straight on final without crabbing, but it's not something I'd advise a beginner to try. There is nothing wrong with crabbing to fly a desired course in a crosswind.

RE: High wind technique
 

Al,

One thing I notice, advise change from one person to another.
One assures that beginners should start immediately using rudders, and others like my instructor told me to learn with ailerons and leave rudders for later.
If I don't use rudders how would I get bad habits? I only have to make sure I use good instructions when I am ready for the rudder.
At least, this is what I intend to do.

Thanks you for your advise. You're in line with my instructor.

RE: High wind technique
 

Boulton,

You seem not to understand my problem. I do not find any flaw in the instructions I read. I did not read the book you mentioned though. I also understand the laws of physics and how they apply to aviation. I was soloed in a real plane in less than 9 hours. I am not stupid. I am a beginner in RC so I have limitations and I respect that. The instructions are great and they make sense. I just can't do them yet. I tried them on the sim and I suck. That does not mean the help I received here in this forum was not good. On the contrary.

Slowly I will get better, and be a great RC modeler.

RE: High wind technique
 

On, as you say, the contrary.

Nobody's called you stupid. i'll admit I've suggested you're not willing to do the work to learn the answer to the question YOU asked, so I'm confused as to why you bothered to ask it.

You say you know how the laws of physics apply to airplanes, and your quick solo in a real airplane proves this. Perhaps some of us soloed even more quickly than you/...or have more logged hours than you...or have flown a greater number of "real' airplanes than you.

perhaps some of us have more hours, flights, and variety of experience landing RC airplanes in crosswinds as well...and we're suggesting that a book you HAVE NOT READ contains information that will educate you regarding the proper technique to do what you wish to do.

YOU started this thread asking for resources.

You were given some.

YOU say you haven't bothered to read tham, and have somehow magically determined that it's too hard right now, so it's pointless to read them. Your rationalization for this is that you soloed quickly.

Suit yourself. Your expertise and wisdom will stand you in good stead, and aid you in your pursuit to become a greta modeler, no doubt.


<br type="_moz" />

RE: High wind technique
 

I did read the threads I was given. Not the book. I intend to read the book as soon as I can get one.
In fact, I was trying to find out if there is a book that covers everything on R/C.
I got a few tips on a couple of them here on this forum. I just have not made my decision yet.
I have found a lot of great ressources on this forum, more than the help I have received at the field.
Not only did I read the threads and the tips, I tried to practice them on the sim.
And this is where I found out I am not ready yet.

I thought that was clear.

RE: High wind technique
 

I was also afraid of rudder, especially my DX6i is the heli version so the left stick is soft not ratched, so it is almost imposible to apply rudder without changing throttle. I can do it a lot easier on the sim. So when the winds were above 9 MPH or crossed I went home sad.
This took a lot of flying time away from me so guess what?? I practiced and practiced on the sim. One day I logged one full hr of touch and goes on diff wind speeds and headings. Now I can use rudder to land and I can fly with winds.
Ailerons are useless when you are close to the runnway, in fact they can damage your precious model.
We are all afraid at the beggining thats why this is a great hobby.

RE: High wind technique
 

I teach using the rudder to turn the airplane, and using the ailerons and elevator to bank the airplane and keep it level. I like to first teach this on the simulator, so a new student can make mistakes and "Crash" at no additional cost or damage to the airplane. [8D]

RE: High wind technique
 

I made a quick video on Realflight showing a cross wind landing. I added the remote control to the screen so you can see what my control inputs are as it goes into the flare. I used a 15 knot crosswind blowing almost directly across the runway. Most winds will not be this bad but it shows that it can be done with some practice. Start using the wind function of your simulator to learn the proper cross wind landing techniques without the fear of destroying your model.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y9hoVxVeD0[/youtube]

RE: High wind technique
 

Lopflyer,

One of the problems for me also is handling the thottle and the rudder at the same time.
I like to feel in control of the thottle on landing so I can turn around if my approach is not satisfactory.
Landing with the rudder then becomes stressful and I crash on the sim.

It used to be extremely difficult also to manage the rudder on take off, but now I am doing better.
I guess I'll do the landing too

</p>

RE: High wind technique
 

<font size="2">

Trueblue</p>

That's a great video.</p>

Based on what I have read, I must assume that strong crosswind is blowing from your back.</p>

This is awsome. I have been practicing on the sim but I am using about 8 miles blowing towards me.</p>

Instead of using the rudder (I have to get over that fear) I try to land with a little power parallel to the runway</p>

So as the wind blow the plane it will eventually land on the runway.</p>

It has not worked well.</p>

But I have to say, it has been even worst trying the rudder. I crash each time.</p>

I will try again until I make it.</p>

Thanks,</p></font>

RE: High wind technique
 

Harry,
 It was mentioned earlier on in the thread but I'll say it again. The best thing you can do in situations like this is to practice your approaches a mistake high. Using the rudder and throttle at the same time can be as you said, a bit uncomfortable for some. This is usually complicated on a landing because the pilot is afraid of hitting the ground. If you practice up high you will be able to develop the skill and muscle memory you need to do crosswind landings. After you practice it enough you will find that it will just become an automatic movement by your fingers and you won't have to think about it any more.

Personally, I love doing crosswind landings. I think it looks really cool to have the plane comeing down in a crap situation and then straightening out at the last second to land.

Hopefully with a little practice you will be doing them with no problems at all.

Ken

RE: High wind technique
 

Not necessarily for a beginner, the better technique is called slipping not crabbing. A rank beginner will find the technique difficult due to cross control of rudder and aileron. However many more advanced pilots use it effectively to control and smoothen landings.

RE: High wind technique
 

Ken,

Are you talking 10 feet over the ground? When I do it a little high, it's hard to tell on the sim if I am doing it right.

MTK,

Someone said earlier :With trainers it's not the end of the world if you just let them weathervane and land them into the wind at an <font color="#000000">angle</font> to the runway". Is that the slipping?

Thanks,

RE: High wind technique
 

"Stick and Rudder" (pp. 190-191) describes these beliefs as "Simple, straightfoward ...but ... no good." An airplane turns by banking, with use of the elevator to keep the tail going the right way. What the rudder does is prevent adverse yaw. Unless you have a lot of dihedral, a rudder-only turn will be a skid, not a real turn.

RE: High wind technique
 

A mistake high is just a term used often in learning stunts. It is just the altitude needed to recover if you have a problem/mistake. Each pilot and every plane will have a different mistake recovery. When you read different writings on learning a new stunt it will usually say to try them 2 or 3 mistakes high. Something like the flat spin is learned way the heck high and the pull out is at least 3 mistakes high because some planes don't like to pull out of a spin. If the engine goes dead during the spin 3 mistakes high may not be enough on some planes.
Learning to use rudder doesn't call for a lot of sky, one mistake high like Ken mentioned may be about 100 feet or lower?

RE: High wind technique
 

Harry,

I had to read your post a couple times to figure out what you were talking about. I can see why landing the way you do has not been working. It is almost impossible to predict where your airplane will end up based on crosswind and glide angle.

I would set your sim up to have a 8-20 knot cross from your back. When you make your turn to final let the plane weather vane its own. If you look at my video I am making almost no corrections while it is on final. just use the ailerons to correct your ground track and align it with the runway. Then just fly the approach as you normally would if you had no wind, only differance being that the nose will be cocked one way or the other depending on crosswind. At the end of my video watch the control sticks on the remote in the screen. you can see that right near touch down I use the rudder to push the nose over to align it wth the runway. Then use opposite aileron to keep the plane from drifting. This is called "Wing Down, Top Rudder." Hold this attitude to allow he upwind wheel to touch down first. Throughout this apporach you will need to use a higher throttle setting to couteract the increased drag from the wind and the crosswind landing. The sim is a invaluable tool to teach the required muscle memory to learn crosswind landings. You can crash all day long with no consequences! Good luck! [8D]

RE: High wind technique
 

No, slipping is a cross control maneuver where you are using rudder and opposite aileron to either increase descent or align the aircraft on the runway for a crosswind landing. Letting the plane weathervane on its own to maintain a desired ground track is crabing. It is the combination of these two techniques that make up a proper crosswind landings.

RE: High wind technique
 

How does a plane "weathervane on its own"? (Short answer: it doesn't.)

RE: High wind technique
 

TruBlu02,

Both of your videos were awesome. I especially like the G5 one because tonight I am going to go practice.

This whole thread has taught me a lot. I want to thank everyone including the poster who started this ...

I noticed your throttle management on the video and I will make sure I practice that as well.

I just bought a 1/4 Balsa USA Army Piper Cub and I need to make sure I don't break it on the maiden flight :)

Not to hijack the thread, but THANKS for the information. Now, I have some work to practice on the simulator before I head to the field this weekend.

RE: High wind technique
 

HI
raise your idle if a head wind -to keep the plane flying on your final engine idle should fly the plane to the ground
you can always fly into the wind then turn on to the runway with ailerons ( as i did when i started )
watch the wind direction if blowing at you the plane will be drifting to you on the final turning tight ON BASE and early will help you stay in the center of the runway
if wind is blowing away from you you will need to make your BASE turn wide just past the center of the runway so you will be drifting back to the runways center
the sky wind speed and direction is different every day learning to land under all possible condition is the greatest challenge in RC flying-you can have the best possible flightbut if you blow the landingTHE BOYS WILL HAVE SOMETHING TO SAYALWAYS
TIP : any time the plane does something it should not or you do not feel right- ON FINAL-GO AROUND !!! this is the best advice i can give anyone you will have another chance to look good and plant that landing - alot of planes will start a rocking motion on final-that comes just before the plane stalls and falls out of the sky you will learn to identify that motion add a bit of throttle and land or do go around
keep in mind the plane is going very slow on the final so do not be affaid of that as the slower you are going the less damage you should do-keep the wings level with the groung and pull the nose up a little just before touch down ( called fllairing ) parallel to the ground works also FLYING FOR 20 YEARS MORE THAN MOST BEST REGARDS TONY

RE: High wind technique
 

Thanks Tony. Everytime someone screams "LANDING", all eyes turn to the runway.
I think this is how you see how good is a pilot. This is why I want to practice only landing.
This is all I do on the sim at least 2 hours a day.
Yesterday I heard a guy screaming "Dead Stick" at the field. When I looked he was only 10 feet from the ground and he tried to make a turn to reach the runway. Even I, a beginner knew that was a very bad decision. He crashed.
This is a guy who had 6 planes in his car. Now I know why some of them have so many planes.

RE: High wind technique
 

Here is an easy tip to remember for rudder control on cross wind landings. During final approach and the plane is coming towards you push the Rudder stick where you feel the wind on your face. As you feel the wind on the right side of your face move the stick right and same for the left. This simple tip gives a beginer an easy way to remeber which way to move the Rudder Stick without having to think about it. KISS

RE: High wind technique
 

Ok Top Gunn. When youre "steering" with the rudder are you changing heading? Of course you are! Slightly but you are. And read my post again I never said turn, I said change heading DURING LANDING. If you dont turn with the rudder more power to you. But I know I can turn with the rudder and elevator no problem so to each his own. Id rather teach a beginner the rudder than have him "slip" the plane on the runway where you are at the mercy of the wind. A little power, little right or left rudder, little aileron to keep the plane upright and very little slippage. BINGO!!!!!

Also the reason not to teach a beginner to control with ailerons is because the controls are in reverse for landing so its easy to lose which way to roll to correct the plane. If you over control ailerons on landing you will land inverted on the runway. Its easy to lose your focus on landing because its the most stressful time during flight. Yes the same can be said for the rudder going in opposite directions. But the rudder input is usually less than the aileron input so you can easily make small adjustments with the rudder rather than ailerons.

Just my opinion

RE: High wind technique
 

unless you have DEEP pockets,,,,,,high winds can for a newbe can be a bit unsafe and costly

RE: High wind technique
 

I understand yor concern about crashing and getting out of your comfort zone but if you learn to use the rudder it will greatly improve your flying enjoyment. Try some of these tips from the Sport Aviator site http://masportaviator.com/2004/02/27/using-the-rudder/ and enjoy the fun :D this article helped me alot and now I can fly anything on a windy day.