Help building first plane
 

Hey every one. So today I will begin the attempt to build my first plane, I am going with the flying wing. I've learned about all I can from videos and web sites. I have a simple question about controls though.

Ok so the wing I'm gonna build that I've seen has two servos one for each side if the wing..
My question is if it is running on two different servos for each side how would u move them both at one time u know to elevate?
Im guessing each servo runs on a separate channel. I'm kinda doin this from spare car and heli parts. So how do I have both servos move same time in the same direction if they are running on separate channels.

I know this is kinda vague but I don't really know how to explain just what I'm trying to say other than that.
Imagine you have a heli receiver and transmitter and try to explain how to do this with that. Thank u so much..<br type="_moz" />

RE: Help building first plane
 

Use your TXto reverse one of the servos.

RE: Help building first plane
 

Ha.. I'm sorry man I don't know what that means.
Im thinking your saying they'll run on one channel and work opposite of each other? Still wouldn't give me the ability to make them both move in same direction at same time..
Im sure I'm misuderstanding u though

RE: Help building first plane
 

you will need a computer radio that will allow you to program an "elevon" mix. Once the mix is programmed properly, the computer in the Tx will move the ailerons in opposite directions when you move the stick left / right and will move them together when the stick is moved up and down. Good luck to you, you have chosen a difficult build for your first plane, but you are in the right place to ask questions!

RE: Help building first plane
 

In a flying wing that uses two control surfaces a separate servo is used for each and these are plugged to separate channels on your rx.

A radio system (transmitter) must be used that has 'Elevo function' and this mix must be enabled to have both elevator and ailerons functions.

Years ago the normal method was to mount one servo on a slider and it was in turn moved by the second servo. One of those was plugged to the elevator and the other to the ailerons.

Designing your own airplane to learn how to fly with is a receipe for failure. Get Help. What exactly is the radio system you are going to use?

John

RE: Help building first plane
 

Do u know where I could see instructions on an easier one. I thought that was the easiest one.

RE: Help building first plane
 

I haven't got one yet I thought I could use one I have from a car but I'm seeing now I prolly can't do that

RE: Help building first plane
 

No, you do not want to try to use a car tx or rx, but you don't have to buy the top of the line computer radio system either. Anything from a Futaba 6x up will probably do what you need.

RE: Help building first plane
 

Ok about how much would I have to spend on that? And could I use one of my transmitters I have 3 from 3 if fervent helis. <div>And if the wing model is tough what would be the most simple? Any good build instructions or videos? </div>

RE: Help building first plane
 

You haven't said anything about your current flying skills and I don't see anything about planes in your profile. If you have no fixed wing experience you may want to start with a high wing trainer of some sort. Or, if you have a little patience, you could build one of the easy low wing planes like an Uproar while you learn to fly on an Arf or Rtf high winged trainer. The Uproar is not a beginner plane for flying, but it is a good begginer build. You let us know what you're thinking and we'll give you some more suggestions for good kits.

RE: Help building first plane
 

Flying wings are HARD to fly because you lose orientation quickly. They are easy to bulid, hard to trim and very difficult to see - though they do fly nice. They tend to be very fast for a given engine size - which is just what you don't want to try learning on.

If your radio does not have an ailevator/flying wingtype mix built in you could be up against some VERY difficult initial trim flights trying to get things set up properly. The ailerons have to be mixed to serve both as ailerons and elevator, and rudder if it is a true flying wing with no vertical stab.

RE: Help building first plane
 

Well I was really just gonna try to build one from scratch, no I don't have any experience, but I enjoy building models and things, so I was hoping I could get some advice on electronics really.. Like where I could get a real cheap receiver that'll work wit my heli controller.. It don't need to be fancy I just want to build something from scratch that will fly, don't have to be 3d. I just want to build it from a sheet of styrofoam or something similar I don't want to do a kit.. I know that's prolly not the best choice for a novice like me, but for me it's not so much the flying but the building.. So if I could get a receiver for just a few bucks that'll work with my controller I already have, servos, and motor I already have that would be great.. Maybe some templates on cutting, what plane would be the most simple build.. <div>
</div><div>This will be my first build I expect to mess up that's why I wanna star out really easy, then I can go from there</div>

RE: Help building first plane
 

look for a cessna looking, high wing type plane
post some pics of the gear you have ready to use.
Try to use a stores simulator if they have a display or spend some time on a friends sim, and then see how difficult it can be, decide from there.
likely best to purchase a simple foamy type trainer thingy with all radio built in, if you suceed and like it, go ahead and scratch built whatever you like.

RE: Help building first plane
 

Mr. Smith, this is the beginners forum, most beginners don't scratch build there first airplane and wouldn't know where to even begin. You should post your questions over in kit building or Scratch/plans building. That Way you will get a number of the better places to find wood, plans and general supplies at the better prices.
I am a scratch/plans builder myself and use several places to buy the items needed, if you search around you will find a number of people posting this information already.;) I think if I were you I would change the location of my question.:D

RE: Help building first plane
 

The radio I have is from a exceed falcon 40 heli and one from a blade mxr. Sorry cant post pics.. I've played on sims a bit and yes I agree tbhe top winged aircrafts are much easier. I really don't have the cash right now for a whole new kit or a rtf, and since I'm really board and have many many rc parts for cars and helis even though they r much different I can still use some parts, and I was thinking maybe for just a few bucks I could buy the few parts I need for a very simple plane and fix my boardom. <div>Like I'm sure I'd save some money by already having servos, motor, and possibly transmitter, leaving me only to buy a receiver. Or so I thought. </div><div>Like on YouTube I've seen videos of people building cardboard planes, and others for really cheap. Now I know it prolly won't last long, but that's ok as I said before its more forthe fun of the build for me. </div><div>
</div><div>But how much could iget the parts I need for (the simplest parts) </div><div>Also if I bought a kit I could learn to fly with it then  could build a aircraft and use the kits electronics for my build, how much could I get the cheapest kit for..</div>

RE: Help building first plane
 

Noted sir... Thank u very much

RE: Help building first plane
 

FWIW, you've already given the answer to the question you didn't ask, specifically, "Will this work?" And the answer you gave is no, which is right.

I do understand the desire to cobble something together with no money invested in it just to see how low-tech and scrounged-up an item you can keep aloft. But there are two problems: First, this is an aircraft. And aircraft by nature are temperamental machines that simply won't work if they aren't exactly right. Second, you can't avoid spending money. Even if you could jerry rig up your current equipment, you'd still need a battery and power system and some structural materials.

So here's the honest to good right answer for you. If it really is about the building, skip the half thought out foam plate idea and get some plans for rubber free flight planes. These can be fairly complex and fancy if you want them to be, and a whole world of challenges to get them flying just right awaits. Your only expenses will be wood and covering tissue and a few props initially. If it's really about the building, get a Hobby Zone Super Cub, Mini Super Cub, or Champ depending on your budget. They are decent airplanes on calm days and proven fliers.

RE: Help building first plane
 

BTW, one of my good college friends was from Brookhaven. Did you happen to know Jonathan or Mandy Carter?

RE: Help building first plane
 

Yea I know Mandy.. Wow small world..<div>
</div><div>But as far as the build I have batteries and almost everything I need except the craft itself. And maybe the reviewer since it seems the receiver is much different for planes.. Like I said I just saw some videos of what looked like simple builds all except for electronics and was kinda inspired</div>

RE: Help building first plane
 

electric power is the simplest, but heli motors are different than plane motors
what batteries and chargers do you have?

RE: Help building first plane
 

I have more batteries than I could begin to list mostly lipo 1s &amp; 2s Fromm 500mah to 2800mah.. And I have an IMAX b6 charger.. I have regular heli and car motors brushed and brushless, but I do have one brushless plane motor.. Not sure what kind it is, just had a guy who flies give it to me.. He said he built it for one of his first planes.. He's big in flying completion and all that.. He said its a 3500kv

RE: Help building first plane
 

G'day

The best thing you can do is to find a local club, go along, ask some questions and go from there.

If you want to build a plane from bits of balsa then you need a trainer plan at the very least. Or better still a kit with a plan and most of the bits in it. If you just want to fly, there are tons of foamies out there which are suitable. But again, practical help is really what you need.

You will learn a lot quickly and at very little expense if you can find a club and some people who will help you.

The internet is a good way to find out some things, but the things you need to know at this stage are far better explained face to face. Once you get the basics, then this is a good place to hone your knowledge.

Enjoy. It is a great hobby.

Mike in Oz

RE: Help building first plane
 

Not an electric expert here, but most brushless outrunners are 1500KV and lower, to turn props at a reasonable rpm, for slower/ trainer or scale aircraft.
High KV usually are found on EDF jets and other faster aircraft, such as a flying wings.. gear boxes change things all over again

best to assemble your power system first, battery, ESC and motor and prop, then you will know what aircraft type and size you can power.

RE: Help building first plane
 

The blade transmitter may work with the BNF Night Vapor, a very easy-to-fly and fun micro plane. If you have a LHS, ask there and make sure if they say it works that you can bring it back for full refund if not.

Actually, ailevator is for split elevator halves, confusing in this discussion. Elevon is for flying wings.

RE: Help building first plane
 

You could use on of these (or similar) v-tail mixers on your "elevons". I think long ago they also use to sell a mechanical device to do the same thing, see pic below.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHS3

-Sean

RE: Help building first plane
 

I don't think that will work with a car radio.

RE: Help building first plane
 

Ailevators are the trailing edge roll control surfaces of a wing that also lift or drop for pitch control. It is correct terminology on a flying wing (ie. Northrup, Horten, etc.)

http://www.twitt.org/GoodyearRacer.html (a post WWII flying wing aircraft)


Their use long predates computer transmitter mixes.


There used to be an Austrailian company that made a stand-alone elkectronic mixer (for Zagi wings) that didn't need a computerized transmiter mixing. Istill have one in my project box from a retired wing.

RE: Help building first plane
 

so how would the non computerized transmiter mixing work? and would that be easier than the other way around

RE: Help building first plane
 

If you look at post #25, he has shown you two ways to do it without a computer radio. The link he gave you for the V-tail mixer would probably be the easiest of the two. The picture of the two servos mechanically linked is a strictly mechanical method that is going to take some patience to get set up and trimmed properly.

RE: Help building first plane
 

I'll agree to disagree, as there are mixed terms depending on aircraft. For flying wings, elevon is the better description IMO. Here's an example of two terms describing the same function, courtesy of the RC Sailplane Glossary:







Whether a tailless aircraft has a vertical fin and rudder or not, when the ailerons are also used for pitch, 'elevon' should be correct. When the elevator halves are combined for roll and pitch, that becomes ailevators. I have a foam F-86 that has ailevators. One could argue they mean the same thing, but the true ailevator aircraft doesn't have elevons.

I have an Ace mixer, also a device called a D.A.D. that does the same, both gathering dust since the '80's. [8D]  BTW, Bill Evans, king of tailless aircraft, refers to them as 'elevons'. I still have a Slo-Motion from his 'Simitar' series, a great flier! 

RE: Help building first plane
 

ok so in post #25 the servo to the right has for lack of better words a piviot so when you power the one servo it pushes the piviot point on second servo moving both control arm at one time. and you still can use that servo with the pivot point on top of it to turn each of the control rods in opposite directions?

RE: Help building first plane
 

well since your ace mixer is collecting dust... ;) why dont you help a fellow out and just send it to me?? haha.. but really if its just collecting dust i would like to get it from you if your willing to part with it and it dont cost me to much..

RE: Help building first plane
 

Spoken like a true gentleman and master of the polite contrary.

Come over and sit on the divan and put your feet on the ottoman and I'll fix us a few highballs and we can discuss aeroplaneterminology.

RE: Help building first plane
 

Also spoken like a true gent !  Exactly how many highballs are we talkin'?  [8D]  After instructing full-scale 30+ years, I still enjoy discussing/learning, with both young and olde.

RE: Help building first plane
 

I would, but it acted odd last time I tried it out, so it needs some troubleshooting.

The DX6 recommended is a great little radio, save some moolah up and get into basic computer radios.  Back in 1967, it took me 10 weeks of paper route money ($250.00 !) to buy an Esquire trainer with a 10-channel (5 function) Controlaire reed radio that was being sold on consignment at the local hobby shop (LHS). I bought a 1960 VW bus to carry it in for $300, wish I had them both!  [8D] 

RE: Help building first plane
 

haha i hear that.. i will be saving a few dollars and get me a trainer, but in the mean time i might put together the linked servo and just test it out see how it works and if i could figure it out.

RE: Help building first plane
 

It is so refreshing to see polite disagreement on these fora!
Thank you, gentlemen.

Jess

RE: Help building first plane
 

This is the Dubro mechanical mixer and is commonly avaliable at Tower (around 12 Bucks):

http://shop.dubro.com/products/productdetail/V-Tail+Mixer+(QTY/PKG%3A+1+)/part_number=215/101.0.1.1.5161.5191.0.0.0?pp=12&

They work OK and I have used them a number of times with various Scimitar flying wings. Of course now I would simply use Radio mixing.

They are listed as a V-tail mixer but can also be used as a elevon mixer makes no differance in the way it works.

Jhsmith

Two concerns, if you try to use a surface radio for your homebrew airplane is if it is a pistol grip that is not going to be practical and you will almost certainly not be able to control the airplane because of poor ergonomics.

The other concern is If: your surface transmitter is on the 75 Mhz band then it is illegal to use for an airplane. If it is 2.4 then that is shared and OK. If it is on the 27Mhz band then that also is a shared band and can be used for an airplane or surface.

John

RE: Help building first plane
 

i do have have a pitol grip transmitter but i will be using the 27mhz heli transmitter for the controller here.. i automaticly realized that a pistol grip would not do the job

RE: Help building first plane
 

You need to get with the guys at your local RC club in Brookhaven.  They will be able to help you with your project.  They usually fly at the airport on the weekends.