What the hell did I get myself into?
 

After years of racing rc cars I decided that I want to get into planes. Since there probably isn't much outdoor flying here in Indiana for the next few months I thought I would try to build my first plane. A Great Planes PT40 kit will be on my doorstep tomorrow. After reading the manual for the past few days I am thinking what the hell did I get myself into? I have a strong mechanical ability but this is all new to me. Yesterday I bought some supplies from the LHS and tried gluing some balsa and making some hinges. So far they have turned out pretty good. I'm just hoping the rest of the build is a straight forward as the first few steps. Being brand new to planes I wanted to start a thread to document my progress and post questions as they come up. Hopefully my experiences helps out other people just getting started too. Thanks in advance and I am tentatively looking forward to getting started.

Welcome to the passion:cool:

John

I've never built a PT40,, but Great Planes usually includes pretty good plans and manuals. Read the manual over and over until you fully understand each step and visualize them on the plans. If there is something you do not fully understand, the is a good place to ask. Somebody here will know and be willing to help. Understanding every step fully before executing that step is essential to a quality finished product.

Looking at the instructions, and that box of lumber, can be daunting. Once you get into it, though, you'll soon figure out what's going on.

The plans and instructions should be straight forward. They'll lead you step by step, through your build. If you do run into questions, members of this forum will surely come to your assistance.

If you do a build thread, we can watch your progress, and alert you if we see anything questionable.

Welcome to building. Many of us find this side of the hobby the most enjoyable, with flying being an added bonus. :cool:

Do you have a building board?

If your already doing hinges my guess is you bought an ARF (almost ready to fly) kit? Unless your just practicing.
I have a PT-40 flying for my winter beater with snow skis and a K&B 61 for power, pretty stout little trainer, easy to build and repair.

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I will try to keep updating this as a build thread as TomCrump suggested. I got the kit today and checked out the pieces for damage. So far so good. Then I unrolled the plans and found out my building table is not big enough to lay the plans out completely. I built a work bench exactly like the one in the manual and used a 30x80 interior door. I guess I will have to move the plans as I build different sections. The manual says to separate all the parts and label them. Seems like a pain and a good way to lose parts. Is it really necessary to do that? Or can I take what I need as I need it like building a car kit?

No need to separate parts but do go through the kit and make sure all the parts are there before you start. I like to only remove the parts that I will immediately put to use that way I don't damage or miss lay them somewhere. An interior door is not the best but it will do if it’s straight and not warped. Remember the parts you build on that table will duplicate any warps in that building table. I have switched to solid core doors though much heavier they hold their shape for a very long time. I have had mine for 15 or more years. You will be pinning parts to the table top and there are several surfaces you can cover the door with. What ever you do don’t glue it to the door it will shrink and expand at a different rate than the door and will warp with a change in temperature and or humidity. On my solid core doors I cover mine in homosoate and fasten it with a few drywall screws. It is a sound deadening board made of compressed paper. It holds pins the best of any surfaces I have used. Model rail road guys use it under their tracks and a single spike every foot or so holds the track in place for ever. You will have to look for it as it’s not that common any more.

I like to cover my plans with wax paper and build right on top. Use the paper with the heavier wax content. As long as you don’t flood the joint the wax paper will protect your plans. The brand I like to use is Reynolds Cutright Wax Paper.

I recommend using a yellow highlighter and highlight every step as you complete it. That way if you skip a step to do later a quick glance through a missed step will stand out. If you leave your construction for a while you know exactly where you left off.

Take your time cut and fit twice glue once.

Dennis

I like the suggestion to use homasote. It accepts pins well.

Homasote comes in a 4x8 sheet so if you save the off cuts from covering the door you can make a few small portable building surfaces. These are great for smaller subjects or even sub assemblies and I can even stand them up against the wall with the parts pinned in place.

Dennis

One thing to remember throughout your build, especially if this is your first time, is to be very patient. If you find yourself rushing ANY part of the building process, tell yourself to chill out and concentrate. The itch to fly will always be there and it is pretty easy to get frustrated. Just take your time and you'll end up with a pretty, and formidable, flying machine.

I got the fin and stabilizer glued last night. They turned out flat and smooth. The wax paper stuck to the stabilizer but that was easily sanded off. Now its time to start on the hinges, tomorrow.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2059139

Nice start !

Lately, I've been using plastic wrap instead of waxed paper. You may want to give it a try.

Yes sometimes the wax paper sticks to the odd glue joint as you said it easily sands off. I find it sticks more as of late I think they are using less wax in the wax paper. I may try something like a light layer of car wax on the wax paper. Pin it down apply the wax and buff it off. I have tried the plastic wraps and I didn't like them though I know many who use it. If your getting it really stuck to the glue joints you may be using to much glue. I like to lightly glue all the joints then go over them after the structure is removed from the table. This way I get the bottom as well.

Dennis

If your going to build from plans its a good idea to copy the prints so you have something to refer to that isn't covered by the structure you are building. Some of the prints I have built from have all the instructions printed right on the print. I recommend taking to a local printer and having them make you a copy. One hint if it says copyright any where on the print cover it with white out or magic marker. Some places don't like to make copies when they see the copyright in plain view.

I started using Parchment paper, it's found with the wax paper at the market, you just can't see through it as well but nothing sticks to it. I also use the plastic wrap as Tom mentioned. Never tried homasote but it looks pretty good.I have been using the same old soft pine building board I made several decades ago but it has been added to over the years as required.
Plans can be cut to fit the board or folded. Anyway you can do it. If you want to make a copy of the plans Kinko's does a nice job. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, depends on my mood and the plane I'm building.

If one is a Monocoat user and saves most of the backing material I find this to me is a superior backing to the wax paper for building. Tower hobbies even sells the same stuff packaged for building plans protector.

On my current build I unfortunately ran out and being somewhat cheap was not about to Pay Tower prices for backing plastic so headed to the grocery. Picked up both waxed and parchment. Waxed being my old standby but thought I would also try the parchment. Did the first frame with the parchment and did not care for how it released and changed back to the waxed. I did find I like drawing frames and such on the parchment for bashes and so forth.

John

Funny how that works John, it seems to stick or not stick to parchment from batch to batch but for the most part I find parchment better then wax paper. My kingdom for the old wax paper before microwave ovens when you could peel the wax off the paper. I did a search and tried to find the good old stuff without any luck.
Gene

I built one of these this summer from a partially built kit. It's a good flyer. We use it as our club trainer. The plans say you can build it with 8" or 5" of dihedral. I changed it to 3" and put a servo on each wing. I think high wing trainers with too much dihedral are challenging on windy days.
I also made it a tail dragger using a Dubro fiberglass gear and a Sullivan tail wheel. I also built it with a bolt on wing. The plans have the wing mounting blocks about an inch below the wing. That space is there if you use one wing mounted servo for the ailerons. But this means you have a large gap between the wing and mounting block. Therefor the wing can slide a little side to side. I glued a small block of wood to the underside of the wing as wide as the fuselage to prevent any shifting. It is a simple fix. The other way to fix it is to bring the mounting block closer to the wing.
Ours is powered by an O.S. 46fx. It is plenty of power for a trainer.

Ask plenty of questions as you build. There is a lot of good knowledge here.

Adam

Like I said the heaviest wax paper I have found is Reynolds Wax paper. It may be a Canadian only product. Someone once suggested a comercial grade wax paper but heck it comes in like 1000 ft rolls. I think if I pin the wax paper over the plans then apply a light coat of paste wax and buff it off nothing should stick. Heck its what I use to release from my molds.

Dennis

I got the elevator and the rudder hinged today. It turned out better that I thought it would. I used the great planes center line tool and a #11 xacto blade for the slots and a razor plane and a bar sander to make the bevel. Everything is straight and even. I also glued the fuse sides. They look good but I did notice a couple of spots where they didn't fit together perfect and can see light through the joint. Can those spots be filled with thick CA? Also, I epoxied the wing bolt plate and firewall. The pieces don't fit together perfect but I figure they can be cleaned up later. Is that normal?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2059757

I am a beginner also. If I was you, I would learn to fly on an ARF trainer or a cheap used trainer. I would hate to crash a stick built plane that I have hours and hours building. I would fly the stick plane after after I learned to fly. Back in the day you had no choice but to learn on a stick built. Today you can purchase a arf under a hundred bucks. Also a simulator will really help you get started.

I forgot to mention. I have to make some decisions about the wing. Bolt on or rubber bands? Trainer wing A or sport wing B? Wing A locks out the ailerons has more dihedral. I been flying RealFlight for a few years and I have gotten used to flying with the ailerons but don't know how a real plane will be. Any suggestions?

I have only seen one pilot and was told by a friend of another that were able to pretty much be able to fly a plane after just using Real Flight. My instructor loaned me real flight G-nothing and when I was still teaching I loaned my students RF #2 but I picked the plane and had them doing exercises on it after a day of instructions at the field. I like a combination of both flight training and the sim. I have also found age makes a big difference. A 13 yer old will learn to fly a bunch faster then a 65 year old. Kids have been around joy sticks most of there lives. I had a 12 year old and a 60 year old learning to fly at the same time. The kid could solo in one day, the 60 year old took a couple months but a lot of that is fear. The 60 year old understood the price of the gear, the kid didn't care. Funny thing, when he had to buy his own gear he was a lot more careful and started to show nerves.

I usually try to get the parts to fit well before gluing, but I arrived at this decision after building quite a few models. The gaps in the fuselage joints can probably be filled later, using light weight spackle, from the hardware store.

Pics of the wing bolt plate and firewall would help. Most likely, if you are satisfied with the joints, and they are solid, they'll be fine.

I built my first trainer with a rubber band mounted wing. I built myself a "trainer" a couple months ago, and it has bolt on wings. Rubber bands are usually suggested for a novice pilot, but I don't remember putting them to use when I learned how to fly.

I suggest using the lesser amount of dihedral available to you. To me, ailerons are essential.

While there is merit to what you are saying, I tend to disagree.

There is much more to our hobby than just flying. Building, for me, is 75% of the fun. It's hard to describe the feeling derived from seeing a model, that I built, take to the air for the first time. The hours spent in the shop are enjoyable, not drudgery. They greatly enhance the flying experience.

For me, this hobby isn't about what I can buy, but what I can build, and what I can do with it after it's built.

Well said Tom. There is something about learning the "fabric" of airplanes that you get from building the plane yourself that an ARF can never provide. I still enjoy the occasional ARF, but building your own is really what is satisfying about the hobby to me.

This is a diverse hobby with many different aspects. Building for me IS a drudgery, I hate it. I just want to fly, even assembling an ARF is a pain for me. 30 years ago, a salesman told me the first kit I purchased was a 30-30 kit. When I asked him what he meant, he told me it meant 30 days to build and 30 seconds to destroy. I was in Fairbanks, Alaska at the time. He was right! I did eventually learn to fly on an ARF - Duraplane.

A few years later (after just flying ARFs) I built a 1/4 scale Cub. Took me 3 months working on it every night after work - fabric covering, 4 stroke engine, etc. It was beautiful. I was scared to death to fly it because of all the time and energy invested in it. When I finally crashed it (servo/radio glitch), I just couldn't put the time in it to rebuild. I have flown nothing but ARFs since.

I fly my planes aggressively. I like smoke on - tumbling, spinning, etc. I could not bear to pile one into the ground that I spent months/years building.

I absolutely admire builders and their craftsmanship. One fellow in my club is an amazing builder. Projects that would take most folks many months to build, he completes in a few weeks. Building is just not for me!

PS - go with ailerons!

Rapid,

If you really want to learn how to fly and to have a good flying plane when you are done, I would strongly suggest building with ailerons and less dihedral. While some of the old timers at our field enjoy flying with 3 channels, most people don't. Planes fly better with ailerons, and you may find the aileron version interesting enough to keeping flying as a back up plane even after you move on to more sophisticated models. Also, I would suggest bolting the wings on with nylon bolts. Rubber bands can be a PITA, and from what I've seen they don't save much in a crash anyway.

I applaud you for building your first plane. While I don't build much anymore (I'm short on time and I love flying), the skills I picked up in my early years of building help tremendously when modifying or repairing planes ... and if you fly you will need to repair.

Greg

The PT40 was my first plane. Definitely go with ailerons. The PT40 also taught me to read the entire instructions before starting. That way you will find out early about adding washout to the wings. Warping both wings by appropriately and accurately using the shrinkage of the covering is tricky at best. You'll see what I mean if you have gotten to that part yet.

Congrats Rapid! You have most likely gotten into your next addiction!:)

Sounds like you are making great progress, if you are like me you will cut pieces too short, glue things backwards or in the wrong place, sand off too much balsa, etc... That is part of the process,especially just getting into building! I agree with Tom, fit your parts as tightly as you can before gluing, it'll make for a cleaner stronger build. And build as straight and square as you possibly can. Definitely build with ailerons, but learn to fly using both ailerons and rudder.

I am a simulator taught pilot, so I believe it is possible for you to take those sim skills to the field and have success. It is completely different flying the real deal compared to the simulator, sweaty palms, adreniline and gravity come into play! Just remember, let the plane do what it was made to do... Fly. Just like the cars you've been driving, the airplane will respond to small amounts of imput, you just have to add up and down (throttle as well as elevator) to the left and right you are used to.

Enjoy!

Rapid13,

Congrats on building your airplane. I love to build as well and like you, by far prefer to fly what I build. Building your own also helps keep from having a shop full of junk that falls apart and flies poorly. Try to get a tight parts fit so you don't have to fill gaps. Lightweight spackle is OK for non-structural areas but has zero strength. "Gap filling" CA is only for the tiniest of gaps. All CA except the flexible variety is very brittle and will easily crack if too thick. An aliphatic resin like yellow woodworking glue or Titebond is a great alternative to CA. It seldom causes a build to take longer because it dries pretty quickly. Parts like a rudder or elevator can be handled 15-30 minutes after the last part is glued in. It also gets lighter as it dries unlike CAs and epoxies and is more durable in a hard landing than CA because it retains some flexibility and it soaks into the wood fibers.

Washout, as was mentioned previously, is easy to add on the building board. Just prop up the trailing edge of the outboard rib with a piece of scrap balsa 3/8" thick so you build the twist into the wing. That way you aren't dependent on the covering alone to create and hold the washout. Washout causes the outboard portion of the wing to remain flying as the inboard area stalls. The result is that if you stall, the plane drops the nose straight ahead and starts flying again instead of dropping a wing.

I can't agree that airplanes with ailerons fly "better." They fly DIFFERENTLY. Ailerons make it easier to roll. They keep the plane more interesting beyond the initial learning curve. I have a Kadet Senior that's 20 years old and it's still fun to fly without ailerons. I'm thinking about building the smaller Seniorita with electric power because I like the Senior so much.

Have fun with the build.
David

Thanks for all the good info and words of encouragement! It's settled, I'm building wing B with ailerons and a bolt on wing. Once I took the clamps off the firewall and wing bolt plate I didn't like how they fit together. The edges are uneven by .5 to 1mm. I'm thinking I want to file the edges smooth but don't want to take off too much material. It might be better to wait until I get to installing them into the fuselage before I do any adjusting. The gap in the fuse I was talking about you can't see unless you hold the part up to the light so I'm not gonna worry about it. I am starting to see the value of reading the WHOLE manual before starting instead of reading ten pages ahead. I might take a break from building after the step I'm on to finish reading the manual. Besides if I keep going the way I have been I'm gonna need an engine soon. I am thinking OS .46 AX.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2060202http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2060203

Well, I did my first major screw up today. When I was gluing the fuse sides together I put too much pressure on it and broke F2 and F3 formers. Luckily they didn't break all the way and I was able to glue them back together. I test fitted some of the other fuse parts and everything fits good and it seems solid. I might have gotten away with it. Right now I have the firewall epoxied in and curing. Here are the pics of my ugly fix. Ugly but hey, it works.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2060370http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2060371

Let he who hasn't done something like that raise there hands!! My big thing is breaking wing ribs while I'm sanding. We once talked about that in a thread and it seems I'm not the Lone Ranger.

My thing seems to be breaking fuselage stringers....................sometime the same one, multiple times. :o

Good point Tom, I have broken countless stringer when building planes in my building cradle. The 4* 60 and GP Cub take a beating in my hands.

I took full advantage of the opportunity to break sticks on these two. :confused:

The point being, Rapid 13, that we all experience a blunder, or two, or three, when we build our models. :o

Rapid, there are tons of clubs in the Indy area, please save some time and effort on your part by seeking them out, visiting them, and finding an instructor who you are comfortable with. Also check in the events forum here, there is an indoor fly session scheduled most Saturday nights (I think) in Indy. Go there, meet some people who can fly, and make yourself known. There is no substitute for a helping hand in R/C aircraft. I find most of the fun of R/C is the social aspect. Maybe you will also!
Your choice of a trainer is a fine one, just exert some patience, know you will make small errors, and almost no errors cannot be fixed (except perhaps making two fuselage sides the same instead of mirror images (don't ask how one knows this!)
Good Luck, and enjoy!!