Originally Posted by Tom Nied (Post 12595196)

And I agree, most of the time I fly with SAFE off, but I'm real good at losing orientation or flying on a windy day and get into trouble. Flip the switch SAFE on. It has saved me more than once.

Originally Posted by Tom Nied (Post 12596280)

Sounds good. If you can, go to a bigger plane...

Originally Posted by airsteve172 (Post 12593604)

As a lifelong lover of aviation who flies full scale (that means a real airplane for those who might be confused), I enjoy RC from a somewhat different perspective than I think most who are in this hobby.

First of all, let me make it clear that I'm a terrible model pilot and though I think it would be nice for me to gain skills in that area, it really doesn't matter that much to me. There is a variety of reasons for that with the first one being that I live in NYC and there's not a whole lot of places to fly anywhere near me. Of the fields that I do know of and have visited, the predominant occupants have been what I can only describe as geriatric curmudgeons who made me feel almost as welcome as ants to a picnic. I don't mean this to be a blanket statement, but a great amount of model airplane guys that I've encountered strike me as being at least a little strange, which I can't say about real pilots regardless of their age. The RC airplane environment to which I have been exposed has not inspired me to hang around let alone seek flying instruction within. Fortunately I like to build and currently getting my jollies by trying my hand at scale building techniques with the help of having constant access to real aircraft for reference. If I succeed in my building endeavors to the extent that I hope, then this airplane will never leave the ground due to the inherent risk factors.

So now to finally get to the point. I like to fly models also, but not being skilled as a model pilot, I can find a lot of pleasure and satisfaction from flying foamies in SAFE mode. It doesn't matter the slightest bit to me that the airplane is doing the flying, it's doing what I want it to do most and that is fly without crashing! It also fascinates me to observe the amazing technology that's involved in this toy!

I fully appreciate the effort needed to become a proficient model pilot, but why do I need to go through the hassle when SAFE works for me? I don't need to stroke my ego by becoming an accomplished model pilot when I can fly a real plane and my ego is plenty satisfied with that. When it comes to flying models, I just want to do it for casual recreation with the least effort and leave the business of being a sky god with a toy airplane to those who feel the need for that status.

Originally Posted by frenchstan (Post 12612475)

No, Hydro Junkie, you're wrong. Like many others, you've missed the point. Only stupid people would learn to fly WITH SAFE CONSTANTLY ON! Just like ANYTHING ELSE YOU LEARN in life, you have to constantly learn more and more. You never stay just the same. Yes, EVENTUALLY you turn it off and leave it off, but ONLY after you have intelligently taken increasing control, day after day, and learn to, EVENTUALLY handle all the flight responsibilities ALL BY YOURSELF. Why can't people get this?

Originally Posted by frenchstan (Post 12612475)

No, Hydro Junkie, you're wrong. Like many others, you've missed the point. Only stupid people would learn to fly WITH SAFE CONSTANTLY ON! Just like ANYTHING ELSE YOU LEARN in life, you have to constantly learn more and more. You never stay just the same. Yes, EVENTUALLY you turn it off and leave it off, but ONLY after you have intelligently taken increasing control, day after day, and learn to, EVENTUALLY handle all the flight responsibilities ALL BY YOURSELF. Why can't people get this?

Originally Posted by Real2You (Post 12543827)

I was just curious what the seasoned flyers think about a beginner flying with SAFE select on their plane? Does it kind of stunt growth and give a person a false sense of security so to speak? Its pretty darn hard to crash a plane when in SAFE mode.....but you flip the switch and it's a whole different story.

Originally Posted by rbstern (Post 12624444)

I'm 25+ years removed from my last RC flight, ready to get back in. I see a SAFE capable plane as a very good thing. I already know what the sticks do. I know how model airplanes are supposed to behave in the air, what the common mistakes are, what I should and shouldn't do, etc. What I don't know is, how will my reflexes, eyesight and well-aged brain work the first time after take off? Suspect I could probably take off in a trainer to intermediate/sport aircraft, get it in the air, do basic maneuvers, and get it safely back down. But SAFE capability pretty much guarantees that. Consider that as an additional use case. I'd probably turn it off after a couple of flights, and likely would never use it again, unless training someone else.

As far as people not learning because of SAFE: I disagree. A trainer with SAFE/intermediate/off setup is an ideal tool, IMHO. Particulary for folks who don't have ready access to others with knowledge. Ultimately, if a beginner never learns with SAFE disabled, that's on them, and maybe reflects their limitations as an RC pilot. That's not an indictment of the SAFE system. After all, it's got a switch. Not really sure how you can argue about the value of an inexpensive training aid that can be turned off.

Finally: Not all instructors are good teachers. In fact, some are lousy. Might be good RC pilots, but more than a few are lousy at communication, clear explanation, giving advice, etc. At least SAFE behaves the same way every time.

Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie (Post 12624458)

And, in your case, SAFE is nothing more than an insurance policy. For someone that's never flown before, it's a safety net and, in many cases, a crutch that gives a false sense of security. Can a beginner learn to fly with SAFE? Sure they can. Can a beginner learn how to recover from the mistakes SAFE protects them from? Not a chance IF they don't turn it off and leave it off. To make matters worse, the person that learns to fly using SAFE doesn't know what (s)he doesn't know or what to expect in situations that SAFE again protects them from

Originally Posted by rbstern (Post 12624465)

If someone learns to fly with it enabled, never flies a model without it, and just enjoys flying a SAFE enabled plane...so what? Why should that bother anyone? Doesn't bother me in the least. It might bother those that look at flying as a challenge and SAFE planes just get in their way of being able to fly more complex patterns

Someone who is enthusiastic about the hobby and interested in advancing their skills will know they'll eventually have to turn SAFE off to go further. If they progress wisely from SAFE, they stand a good chance of becoming a successful RC pilot. I knew many people who washed out of the hobby because they were tired of the expense of crashing planes and couldn't find enough help to get them over the hump. That was 30 years ago, before the marvel of software was mainstream in RC flying. There's no reason, if used as intended, going out of SAFE to the intermediate mode, and then finally to full control, someone can't learn to recover from mistakes. Sure, some will be overconfident due to SAFE and make mistakes. Seen that plenty without SAFE. That's a cognitive issue, not a technological one. Totally agree with you on this one

Are you bothered by people who can only play chopsticks on the piano? Never learned to cook anything other than scrambled eggs? Someone who has a fantastic eye with a camera but only takes pictures with their phone? These examples don't affect anyone other than the one doing so. Flying a plane isn't in the same family as it normally takes two to fly at an AMA field to follow the rules. At the same time, an aerobatic pilot would probably become annoyed by a SAFE plane putting around the pattern while the aerobatic pilot is stuck on the ground waiting

RC flying is a hobby with all kinds of participants. If SAFE gets someone in the air, and keeps their interest because they managed to not drive the model into the ground on the first flight, it's a good thing. And again, I'm agreeing with you, it can build the hobby and get new people flying. That's something most of us want.

Originally Posted by Tom Nied (Post 12624462)

Can I fly RC, sure. I would admit, one can fly with Safe. But if someone would have asked me yesterday, "is that easy to fly", I would have to answer, "it is easy to fly, but it is easy to get into trouble real fast". So lets not kid ourselves.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie (Post 12624486)

Ok a few things based on the last few posts. First I don't think that it's against any AMA rules to fly alone. Granted it may be a rule for some clubs ( not any that I belong to ). I will agree that it's not exactly a safe practice but some still do so. I was told a spotter was required by someone many moons ago so it's possible they took club rules and applied them to all AMA fields. It seemed reasonable also since, when I'm driving my boats, I have to have a spotter with me on the driver's stand at all boating events I go to

When there are guys out at the field I don't give a rats ass what they are flying provided they are flying in a safe manner and enjoying themselves. Most sport pilots fly in rather close so if I choose to fly ( usually pattern practice ) I am typically 100-125 yards out. For most flying that far out is quite uncomfortable. This was the case two weekends ago when a couple of us decided to practice for a pattern contest the following weekend both Saturday and Sunday and Sunday was a bit crowded. Since we fly two Pattern models at the same time during the contest it's actually good to practice holding concentration while others are flying. As you said, not all want to fly that far out. Last time I was at a flying field(a few years ago), one of the guys was flying a biplane right over the runway doing loops, rolls, etc and was upsetting several that wanted to fly but couldn't. Someone finally walked up to him and told him to stop so the rest could fly too.


For the record, I don't exactly mind airplanes with Safe, except that it reinforces the lack of learning how to properly setting up a model airplane. All too often I see guys fighting their airplanes around the sky because they aren't interested in learning how to make them fly correctly. IMO safe will mask a poor setup making it unnessesary to fine tune the adjustments, then turn off the safe with a poor setup and the new pilot struggles and hasn't a clue why. Thank you for making my point from a couple of posts back.

Originally Posted by rbstern (Post 12624465)

If someone learns to fly with it enabled, never flies a model without it, and just enjoys flying a SAFE enabled plane...so what? Why should that bother anyone?

Someone who is enthusiastic about the hobby and interested in advancing their skills will know they'll eventually have to turn SAFE off to go further. If they progress wisely from SAFE, they stand a good chance of becoming a successful RC pilot. I knew many people who washed out of the hobby because they were tired of the expense of crashing planes and couldn't find enough help to get them over the hump. That was 30 years ago, before the marvel of software was mainstream in RC flying. There's no reason, if used as intended, going out of SAFE to the intermediate mode, and then finally to full control, someone can't learn to recover from mistakes. Sure, some will be overconfident due to SAFE and make mistakes. Seen that plenty without SAFE. That's a cognitive issue, not a technological one.

Are you bothered by people who can only play chopsticks on the piano? Never learned to cook anything other than scrambled eggs? Someone who has a fantastic eye with a camera but only takes pictures with their phone?

RC flying is a hobby with all kinds of participants. If SAFE gets someone in the air, and keeps their interest because they managed to not drive the model into the ground on the first flight, it's a good thing.

Originally Posted by Nikom (Post 12652080)

So true my friend👍 Think it’really comes from “old” pilots who didn’t had safe back then
And it annoys them to see new pilots fly and land planes smoothly😜

Originally Posted by bisco (Post 12652097)

well lads,

after 3 months, i can say that i'm weaned off of safe for high winged trainers. flying the aeroscout, sport cub and smart dart no prolem.
i still have a long way to go, and my first foray into a lower wing with no stabilization whatsoever will be a 42" yak 55, which i am building now, but likely won't fly until spring.
i am still trying to find a pc that will handle rf9.5 so i can practice more over the winter, but no luck so far.

would a teacher and a buddy box be the best way to go, i have no doubt. would have saved me a lot of crashes and treetop landings.:eek:

as far as permanent safe is concerned, i would get bored just steering it around the sky, but it's the next best thing to a real teacher that i can think of, especially during covid.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie (Post 12652134)

The Yak is not a particularly difficult airplane to fly provided it is set up correctly. This is where the old fart in me comes out. I'm not going to try to assign blame to what I have seen over the past few decades but I have seen a decline in the amount of effort that people put into setting up and trimming their airplane. I see guys all the time fight an airplane around the sky that with a couple hours worth of work would fly a whole heck of a lot better. things like balancing aileron throws, aileron differential, expo settings, testing for correct CG placement, thrust line adjustment, throttle curve etc. results in a package that makes just about any airplane much easier to fly. Once the airplane is flying as it should, building piloting skills happens at an accelerated rate.