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Frequency hogs
Hi. I have 40 channel frequency TX/RX [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVW08**&P=7]see it here[/link]. There is another pilot with the same frequency at my local airfield. I swear he must live there because every time I fly he is there. Is buying a new TX/RX the only way to get another channel? Would I need new servos too? Are radios available that can switch channels?
Thanks. |
RE: Frequency hogs
First of all, you mean your radio is on Channel 40, right?
No, you CANNOT change TX channels, it's illegal. That means you must either get together with the other guy and alternate (your club should have a frequency control panel of some sort), or you must buy another transmitter. The servo's don't matter, but the RX must match the TX. There are some that are 'synthesized' in that you can select your operating frequency. Polk, Hitec, for example make synthesized models. I'm sure that there are others. Another thought is the Specktrum DX7 Radio System. It operates in the 2.4 GHz range and will not intefere with others even other DX7 users. It costs about $350 for an entire system (servo's TX, RX, charger) and the servos you are using now are compatible (they will work with the DX7). DS. |
RE: Frequency hogs
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I meant the radio is on channel 40. The other pilot and I alternate turns flying. It is just a bit of a pain waiting 10-15 minutes when we are the only two flyers at the field. So the receiver is considered to be on "channel 40" as well? So I would need a new transmitter and a receiver, but I wouldn't need to touch the servos. Just plug them into the new receiver. |
RE: Frequency hogs
Even though he is there, he cannot fly the entire time. Politely mention you would like to take turns since you are on the same frequency. I have heard that most clubs have limits to keeping the frequency pins. The one I used to belong to had a rule where you had to give it up in 15 minutes if there were others on the same frequency/channel.
There are newer radios that use what's called "Spread Spectrum" which means they do not use a frequency like the radio you have. I mean you do not have to declare you're flying on channel XX and see if anyone else is on the same channel. It's more complicated than that so search for the phrase on the internet and you will see what I mean. Since you already have the radio and receiver, I'd go with the "let's take turns" approach. Good Luck! ----- You must have posted just before I did... You are right about the servos just plugging into the receiver. Your current radio sends signals on channel 40 so your receiver my be programmed to receive on channel 40. The servo's don't care what channel you use. |
RE: Frequency hogs
1 Attachment(s)
That's correct. And, in most cases, if you stick with brands (Futaba for instance), you can re-crystalize the RX which is legal, and have an additional RX.
I have an Airtronics RD8000 system on channel 11 as well as the new Specktrum DX7. There is only one other guy in our club that uses channel 11, we don't often clash. But I am in the process of moving everything over to the DX7 system. I've done three so far. I really like the new system, but am still using the "older" RD8000. But, again, the new technology costs $350.00 to get started. New RX's are retailing for $99.00 each. So, if you are not willing to part with the $$$$ then you will have to work out a compromise with the other guy. Our club rules state that the frequency pin is supposed to be returned to the frequency panel when the pin is not actually in use. That way someone else can use it when and if necessary. DS. |
RE: Frequency hogs
You have a couple options
Change your frequency.. Send your TX and Rx to Radio South.. they can change your frequency for about $50 http://www.radiosouthrc.com/radio_repair.htm Get a new TX on a new frequency.. Your Tx has been discontinued.. This is the new model for $170 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXHYK7**&P=0 One advantage here is if you stick with a frequency between Ch36 and 60 (high band) you can put a new crystal in your current Rx (thats legal for you to do) and use it with the new Tx.. plus you have a whole new set of servos for a 2nd plane. The 6EX has 6 model memory so you can use it with multiple aircraft. Step up to the 2.4gig 6EX for $219 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXPZT8&P=0 this kit gives you a new Tx and Rx.. you re-use all your servos, batteries and switches. your old Rx will not work with it.. maybe you could recover some $$ by selling the old Tx/RX as a set. |
RE: Frequency hogs
You do NOT need a NEW transmitter. You can have an authorized service center change the crystal for you and perform any necessary retuning/checks required. First step is to poll your club to find out what channels are in use so you can request a currently unused channel or a more lightly used channel.
It IS legal for YOU to change RX crystals and you can do this yourself. One condition exists on this IF using Futaba radios. Most of their RX are Hi/Lo band segregated and crystals must be swapped within the same "range" of the band. If you move accross the band you should also send the RX in for retuning. Futaba's latest RX do not have this limitation. |
RE: Frequency hogs
so, you're telling us that changing tx chrystals is illegal? i wonder why that is? is it because of the tuning that's involved? i dont understand.
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RE: Frequency hogs
While Changing the Tx crystal will appear to work you may have reduced range and cause interference on other channels.
More info http://www.bergent.net/crystals.html More From the Futaba Site For a unit with crystals: We CANNOT recommend changing crystals to a different frequency. Changing the crystal on your transmitter is illegal unless you have the proper license. The FCC has established guidelines for the modeler's safety and for the safety of spectators. For safety and FCC reasons we must request that both TX and RX be sent to the service center to ensure proper crystal change and retuning to the new frequency. Crystal based radios cannot be converted to another band without parts replacement, and may not be able to be converted at all. Certain radios can be converted, for example, from 72 to 75MHz. Please contact the service center for any other conversions. The applicable Federal Regulation is as follows: TITLE 47—TELECOMMUNICATION COMMISSION (CONTINUED) PART 95—PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES Subpart E—Technical Regulations Sec. 95.645 Control accessibility. (a) No control, switch or other type of adjustment which, when manipulated, can result in a violation of the rules shall be accessible from the transmitter operating panel or from exterior of the transmitter enclosure. (b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not considered modules and must not be accessible to the user. |
RE: Frequency hogs
Crystals? Are we talking about things similar to what Superman used in his ice palace or Napolean Dynamite used in his time machine?
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RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: foosball_movie Crystals? Are we talking about things similar to what Superman used in his ice palace or Napolean Dynamite used in his time machine? Don't know who this Napolean Dynamite is supposed to be. |
RE: Frequency hogs
Old erroneous discussion. The 7202 has a FREQUENCY module.... that thing tha pops out in the back. Just get a new one with the right crystal pre-installed to do this legally.... yes legally. That said all the seller does is pop in the right crystal and send it to you, but it's then their problem not yours... To do it "correctly" send the radio to the JR service center and have them change the module/crystal for you. They will double check the module tuning as per FCC guidelines. Another even better but more expensive option, is to purchase the new synth TX module... Yes it WORKS in your radio... I have one in my 7202 and I interchange it with my 10X radio and also into a 347 and 728 radio... That little module can "dial" any channel you wish... very nice for 99.00. Then just change the crystal in the RX and have at it. I keep a couple of modules with me in the at the field for quick changes. |
RE: Frequency hogs
ok, i thought that was why you're not supposed to change tx crystals. thanks for clearing this up.
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RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: bobrev06x ok, i thought that was why you're not supposed to change tx crystals. thanks for clearing this up. That's just it, you are NOT really changing the crystals... you are changing the tuning module that has the crystal installed which is why you can LEGALLY do this. You are effectively changing out the whole transmitter section of the radio. JR Services can retune the module or swap modules for you. I find their prices fairly reasonable... However that synth module is very nice and it works very well on your radio. BTW: when was the backup battery changed on your radio? It's getting a little long in the tooth, and while they work and will continue to work great the battery has a 2-3 year lifespan. Send it to JR for replacement. They charge about 10.00 for this.... money well spent if you've ever tried to change it yourself... ( ask me how I know... ) . |
RE: Frequency hogs
Yes, the owner can change modules opjose but what makes you think that he has a 7202 or any other radio with a module? Nothing about it in this thread.
There are, of course, several manufacturers that produce radios that either have internal synthesizers or have standard or synthesized modules available. We were trying to keep the costs down here I thought otherwise I would have recommended a 2.4 GHz system. Again, just get your crystal changed at a shop. |
RE: Frequency hogs
I used to have a channel 44 buddy, he always seemed to be at the field when I was or maybe I was always at the field when he was.
After a while we started greeting each other as "channel 44 buddy". We shared the pin and there was never a problem and we both flew our planes alot. I can see how it could be a problem if someone does not want to play nice, but fortunately in my case we were both very willing to share. |
RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: bruce88123 Yes, the owner can change modules opjose but what makes you think that he has a 7202 or any other radio with a module? Nothing about it in this thread. That's what I get for having multiple windows open to RCUniverse at the same time... tsk tsk, my bad. |
RE: Frequency hogs
See if your club has a list of popular frequencies. You can then pick one that doesn;t seem to get used much.
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RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: opjose ORIGINAL: bruce88123 Yes, the owner can change modules opjose but what makes you think that he has a 7202 or any other radio with a module? Nothing about it in this thread. That's what I get for having multiple windows open to RCUniverse at the same time... tsk tsk, my bad. |
RE: Frequency hogs
i never knew it was illegal. Does it also imply to 27mhz and 75mhz?[sm=confused.gif] I have changed my TX crystals before!.........now i know better.[sm=bananahead.gif]
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RE: Frequency hogs
when a service center changes freq. the transmitter is also electronicly verified to make sure the signal is correct and at the strength required for the unit to function properly, if its not, and the plane is out of range or poss. worse out of control thats where problems starts ie: crashing into the ground or worse into somone with the potental for a fatality.
when I purched my first ARF when the operator asked me( tower hobbies) what freq. did I want, my reply was whats the least popular freq. so far at my club only one other member flys ch. 50 and he flys on sat. usually sun is my day so there is no conflict but we also have a 15-20 min rule that says if your flying on a freq. and another club member shares that # then you have to surender the pin and place your transmitter in the impound until his/her time is up the rules are a guide and as long as the persons sharing the pin work out the time then the rule is very flexable until a pin hog trys to monopolize, then the rule book comes out and that ends any disagreement before it starts. |
RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: i live for 3D i never knew it was illegal. Does it also imply to 27mhz and 75mhz?[sm=confused.gif] I have changed my TX crystals before!.........now i know better.[sm=bananahead.gif] Long answer - Yes, it basically applies to all transmitters of this general type above certain power levels. Our transmitters are all above those power levels. Some Park Flyers MIGHT not be required. I can not give a difinitive answer on that. I suggest you contact the mfg about that and ask. |
RE: Frequency hogs
I CAN'T WAIT FOR 2.4 GHZ modules that are actually AVAILABLE and not just a promise!!!
Until then, I have a synth module and a set of crystals, (about 7 or 8 channels), so I can change the frequency and fly with no conflict, at the field... I seldom need to, but it's nice to have. |
RE: Frequency hogs
If you have a Futaba, you can check their website on what freqs you can change.
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RE: Frequency hogs
The 7202 Does NOT have a module. It is a fully synthesized radio, but has NO interchangeable module. JR does not sell a 7 channel radio that is module based. Period. Having said that, why would it need a module if it is synthesized? There is nothing on the back of the JR 7202 that will pop out.
Now, having cleared that up. As stated before, he doesn't have the 7202 anyway. |
RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: 2slow2matter JR does not sell a 7 channel radio that is module based. Period. My old X-347 has a module My XP783 has a module My 8302 has a module And my 10X's have modules All are interchangable. The 7202 doesn't though. |
RE: Frequency hogs
Those radios are no longer offered by JR, so therefore, JR no longer produces a 7 channel radio that utilizes modules.
Also, the 7202 uses flash memory rather than a battery backup. The 6102 uses the battery. At least, that's what JR tells us. |
RE: Frequency hogs
If you are going to spend the extra money to get a radio with frequency modules, why not just get a 2.4 GHz radio and be done with it? I just bought a Spektrum DX7 a month or two ago and I am loving it!
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RE: Frequency hogs
Now you've done it. Re-opened up an old can of worms.. :D
I too have the new Spektrum DX7 and have bought three receivers so far, and counting. I am changing over to this fine radio system. I still love and use my Channel 11 Airtronics RD8000, by the way, and it has all I need to fly with. The DX7 is equally capable and then some, with the addition of being totally safe at the field with others flying anything they darned well please. No modules, no frequency issues, no mess, no fuss. (Yes, we use a pin system and include 2.4GHz in our pin system as well as the 50 MHz frequencies, by the way. That way we know who is flying what.) My only problem is remembering to raise the antenna on the RD8000 after using the DX7 for a while.. [:@] but I am getting over that little mistake after a few, well, "damaged" airplanes. DS. |
RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: B.L.E. If you are going to spend the extra money to get a radio with frequency modules, why not just get a 2.4 GHz radio and be done with it? I just bought a Spektrum DX7 a month or two ago and I am loving it! Lets say you have 5 models. You don't want to invest a bunch of money to convert all of them to 2.4 at the same time. With a module radio, you can only convert them as you want to, and still only need one radio at the field. just pop the correct module in to fly the plane of choice. Lets say you have a modle with retracts, smoke, flaps, doors on a seperat channel, and all other controls. From my counting that is 8 channels needed, an module 9303 would do the trick. I am sure there are many other reasons, but for some the decision to just get a DX-7 is not easy. I have just about decided to get a 6M instead of 2.4. There are only 2 other fliers at my field on 6M, so there are plenty of channels available and I really don't need to worry about interferance or how a new technology will work. |
RE: Frequency hogs
I read a couple of articles ( [link=http://www.robotmarketplace.com/marketplace_rc_radioDX7.html]here's one[/link] ) on the DX 7. This sounds perfect! No more asking if someone is on my channel. When I upgrade from my Hobbistar trainer, I think I'll pick up DX 7 as well. Will Futaba servos work with the DX-7 receiver?
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RE: Frequency hogs
ORIGINAL: foosball_movie I read a couple of articles ( [link=http://www.robotmarketplace.com/marketplace_rc_radioDX7.html]here's one[/link] ) on the DX 7. This sounds perfect! No more asking if someone is on my channel. When I upgrade from my Hobbistar trainer, I think I'll pick up DX 7 as well. Will Futaba servos work with the DX-7 receiver? |
RE: Frequency hogs
Does Futaba make a TX/RX that does the same thing as the DX - 7?
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RE: Frequency hogs
Not exactly the same thing.
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/pdf/towj62web.pdf note: this pkg is without servos. they have other packages with servos available |
RE: Frequency hogs
Now this is all new to me. Please bare with me on this as I am trying to understand.
So I show up to fly with my Vangaurd 6 channel FM system that I originally purchased on channel 42. When I arrive I see "Bob" is there and I know that he flys using channel 42. Okay that is fine, because when this issue came up I reviewed the club frequency list and ordered up three crystals sets that are either open or have limited use. If I have read this thread correctly it is illegal for me pull out a crystal set that corresponds with an open channel and swap the crystals in both the TX and RX at the field. Is this exactly what this thread is saying? I do not see anything wrong doing this. The transmitter still broadcasts on the 72 Mhz frequency all I have done is alter exactly where in that frequency the information is transmitted. |
RE: Frequency hogs
Why? In my radios the crystal is right there on the back with a simple cover over it and a number. The same applies for the RX. All I need is a small screw driver and a set of needle nose pliers to change the crystals. All I need to remember to do is put the stickers on the covers so I know the channels.
ORIGINAL: bruce88123 You do NOT need a NEW transmitter. You can have an authorized service center change the crystal for you and perform any necessary retuning/checks required. First step is to poll your club to find out what channels are in use so you can request a currently unused channel or a more lightly used channel. It IS legal for YOU to change RX crystals and you can do this yourself. One condition exists on this IF using Futaba radios. Most of their RX are Hi/Lo band segregated and crystals must be swapped within the same "range" of the band. If you move accross the band you should also send the RX in for retuning. Futaba's latest RX do not have this limitation. |
RE: Frequency hogs
Yeah, the crystal setup is pretty misleading, comes from trying to make a common case for all of the world? FCC does not allow this in the US, possibly due to our closer channel spacings(?), You'll note that there is a spot of glue that supposedlly prevents us from swapping crystals, but generally no mention in manuals. I have seen 2 cases of interference caused by TX crystal swapping.
This question is so "popular" RCG has a sticky in their radio section. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94580 |
RE: Frequency hogs
Yes, you are absolutely correct. It is illegal for users in the United States to change the crystals in their transmiiters. This must be done by an authorized repair shop because the output frequency must be verified and adjusted if needed.
I understand that you crystal is easy to access for you and this is confusing. The reason for this is that these radios are sold worldwide, and it's only illegal in the US to change the crystal. The are not going to redesign the case just for sales in the US. This is why the crystal is easy to access on your radio. If I remember correctly the fine for changing these out if caught is $10,000 Ken |
RE: Frequency hogs
If you are interested in the full text of the regulations concerning this matter they can be found at:
[link=http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/47cfr95_04.html]FCC Title 47, Part 95 - Personal Radio Services[/link] Copied from Futaba's website How do I change the frequency of my transmitter? For a unit with crystals: We CANNOT recommend changing crystals to a different frequency. Changing the crystal on your transmitter is illegal unless you have the proper license. The FCC has established guidelines for the modeler's safety and for the safety of spectators. For safety and FCC reasons we must request that both TX and RX be sent to the service center to ensure proper crystal change and retuning to the new frequency. Crystal based radios cannot be converted to another band without parts replacement, and may not be able to be converted at all. Certain radios can be converted, for example, from 72 to 75MHz. Please contact the service center for any other conversions. The applicable Federal Regulation is as follows: TITLE 47—TELECOMMUNICATION COMMISSION (CONTINUED) PART 95—PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES Subpart E—Technical Regulations Sec. 95.645 Control accessibility. (a) No control, switch or other type of adjustment which, when manipulated, can result in a violation of the rules shall be accessible from the transmitter operating panel or from exterior of the transmitter enclosure. (b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not considered modules and must not be accessible to the user. Copied from FCC regulations concerning this issue [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 47, Volume 5] [Revised as of October 1, 2004] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 47CFR95.221] [Page 539] TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED) PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents Subpart C_Radio Control (R/C) Radio Service Sec. 95.221 (R/C Rule 21) How do I have my R/C transmitter serviced? (a) You may adjust an antenna to your R/C transmitter and you may make radio checks. (A radio check means a one-way transmission for a short time in order to test the transmitter.) (b) You are responsible for the proper operation of the station at all times and are expected to provide for observations, servicing and maintenance as often as may be necessary to ensure proper operation. Each internal repair and each internal adjustment to an FCC certificated R/C transmitter (see R/C Rule 9) must be made in accord with the Technical Regulations (see subpart E). The internal repairs or internal adjustments should be performed by or under the immediate supervision and responsibility of a person certified as technically qualified to perform transmitter maintenance and repair duties in the private land mobile services and fixed services by an organization or committee representative of users in those services. (c) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each internal repair and each internal adjustment of an R/C transmitter in which signals are transmitted must be made using a nonradiating (``dummy'') antenna. (d) Brief test signals (signals not longer than one minute during any five minute period) using a radiating antenna may be transmitted in order to: (1) Adjust a transmitter to an antenna; (2) Detect or measure radiation of energy other than the intended signal; or (3) Tune a receiver to your R/C transmitter. (Secs. 4(i) and 303(r), Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. 154(i) and 303(r), and sec. 553 of the Administrative Procedures Act, 5 U.S.C. 553) [48 FR 24890, June 3, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 20673, May 16, 1984; 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998] [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 47, Volume 5] [Revised as of October 1, 2004] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 47CFR95.222] [Page 539-540] TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED) PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents Subpart C_Radio Control (R/C) Radio Service Sec. 95.222 (R/C Rule 22) May I make any changes to my R/C station transmitter? (a) You must not make or have anyone else make an internal modification to your R/C transmitter. (b) Internal modification does not include: (1) Repair or servicing of an R/C station transmitter (see R/C Rule 21, Sec. 95.221); or (2) Changing plug-in modules which were certificated as part of your R/C transmitter. (c) You must not operate an R/C transmitter which has been modified by anyone in any way, including modification to operate on unauthorized frequencies or with illegal power. (See R/C Rules 9 and 10, Sec. Sec. 95.209 and 95.210.) [48 FR 24894, June 3, 1983, as amended at 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998] [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 47, Volume 5] [Revised as of October 1, 2004] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 47CFR95.645] [Page 561] TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED) PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents Subpart E_Technical Regulations Sec. 95.645 Control accessibility. (a) No control, switch or other type of adjustment which, when manipulated, can result in a violation of the rules shall be accessible from the transmitter operating panel or from exterior of the transmitter enclosure. (b) An R/C transmitter which incorporates plug-in frequency determining modules which are changed by the user must be certificated with the modules. Each module must contain all of the frequency determining circuitry including the oscillator. Plug-in crystals are not considered modules and must not be accessible to the user. [53 FR 36789, Sept. 22, 1988. Redesignated at 61 FR 28769, June 6, 1996, and further redesignated at 61 FR 46567, Sept. 4, 1996; 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998] |
RE: Frequency hogs
Unfortunately, the manufacturers made it to easy to simply go ahead and change the crystals out. The bad part of this is the liability that is assumed once you change the TX crystal. If it is off frequency (It is not simply a place holder, the actual transmit frequency is changed and must be centered on that frequency not on the left or right of that center frequency) it will intefere with the adjacent frequency. It also could 'spatter' over other bands if it is not done correctly.
When they (radio shops like the manufacturer or Radio South for instance) swap out the TX crystal, they will check the output with a spectrum analyzer and see where the center frequency is and adjust it accordingly (if needed). Most systems use a phase lock loop system that digitally locks the frequency on center. What can be a problem is if you have a crystal that is problematic, and you will never know it until it causes problems, it could spill over to another channel and cause that channel to be corrupt. This will cause someone on that channel to have some serious problems. So, you cannot just swap transmitter crystals out. Receiver crystals, on the other hand, do not transmit anything (for all practical purposes). So, if it does not work you will know it right away, or if it is not exactly right, your range check will fail. Easy to tell. Not so with the transmitter. |
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