RE: electric starter
 

Ok, after a few shipments I was able to try some comparisons and nothing seems to be working.

I tried two starters - Hobbico 90 Deluxe starter, and Tower Hobbies 180 Heavy Duty Starter. I tried both starters with a fully charged Power Core battery (12v 1.2a lead acid), my car battery (12v, lots of amps, lead acid) and two 7.2v 3000mah nimh wired together with the above connector.

None of this is enough to start my 120AX. Sometimes, with even the 'weakest' setup, I am able to do the 'running start' and hold the starter against the cone for a full revolution. and once out of 10 tries I was able to get the prop spinning enough for multiple cycles.

I guess I need to try a different style starter?

Boy am I having growing pains...starter issues, pull pull issues....OOOOUUUUUCCCCHHHH!!!! :):)

RE: electric starter
 

My Hobbico 180 WILL turn over BGX-1's, 1.20 2C, 1.80 4C engines, etc. using two 7.4v packs wired in series... as you've tried.

But you have to remember that:

- You need the right starter cone. You can't use a small cone with a large engine.
- You need to give the starter a "running start" so to speak.
- Your engine must be broken in.

A small cone cannot produce enough torque "leverage" as the cone is too small. Did you change yours out?

You need to turn the engine against the direction of rotation fully until the beginning of the reverse compression stroke. This let's the starter FREELY turn the engine almost one turn ( two on 4C's ), which gets it moving before the cylinder goes to TDC. This extra inertia gets permits the starter to crank the engine past max compression, given the other factors...

Starting a new engine is problematic, particularly with 2C glow engines and even worst with ABC/ABN engines. The first time you start this type of engine up you not only need to do the other things, but it pays to preheat the cylinder head with a heat gun, to make the engine easier to crank over. Once you do have it started, it is important to run through the breakin routine which will loosen things up so that subsequent starts are easier.

RE: electric starter
 

Thanks, I guess I'll try a larger cone. The engine has roughly a gallon and a half through it. The plane has been inside and I tried starting it in a warm place. I did the 'running start' routine.

Does anyone know exactly what the difference is between the 90 and the 180 starter (deluxe vs heavy duty)?

RE: electric starter
 

You want the starter to perform, Up the voltage, 16.8 volts its as simple as that. all the comercial 12 volt portable systems are whimps.

RE: electric starter
 

Heavier guage wire, bigger stator, etc. which will handle more current...

Note however the only way to get that extra power out of the HD starter is to up the voltage.

It will handle it!

I'm able to crank over 50CC engines if the voltage is high enough and the batteries do not sag with the load.

RE: electric starter
 

It would be nice if the website mentioned any of this. They say the starter is enough for a 1.80, recommend the power core, and don't say anything about using a larger cone.

Thanks for your help guys.

RE: electric starter
 

Yeah so much of this hobby involves "black arts" and "arcane magic"...

This is typical of a manufacturer seeing a need, acting to fill it, but forgetting to test them theirselves and then explain things to the end user... Which is often typical... You have encountered this yourself several times already!

BTW: The "power core" 12v T.H. recommends is not worth purchasing... I wished they would merely sell a package to store whichever batteries we select instead.

I gutted my Power Core , and replaced the abyssmaly weak 12v battery with a pair of racing batteries, so now I charge the starter on Friday before a weekend of flying... the one charge suffices after the "upgrade".

RE: electric starter
 

if your car battery will not turn it something is wrong, maybe the cone idk
are you priming the engine? if not that would help a lot. (dont flood it that wont help)
are you turning on the starter before you put it on the spinner? if not do that
turn the prop backwards, by hand, until you start to feel compression (make sure glo-starter is out) then try to start it

if you are doing all of these then its either the battery's or the connectors/wires
it sounds to me like the starter is not getting the amps it needs to turn it over. a car battery can deliver some serious amps (it starts yor car, at least a 4 cylinder motor, you are tring to turn a 1 cylinder...............)
and others have tried it with 2 7.4 pack wired together and it worked so..... what types of plugs do you have on the starter, are they the aligator clips or banana plug or what???

uping the voltage will work but not if your wires/connectors cant handle it.

RE: electric starter
 

He is NOT using a "car battery" ( which incidentaly gaRCfield would put out about 13.8v or so since the car battery would see almost no load ).

He's stated that he is using one of these:

[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL372&P=ML]Click me![/link]

While adecuate for a .40 glow engine those things are awful for anything larger... and even then the included 12v battery barely lasted me a season before it was used up.

RE: electric starter
 

Ok so this project is really getting to me and I am totally losing my mind. Please tell me what to do as I'm now confused and frustrated and just want to get this over with and take a nice long break from this plane.
this is what really confuses me.

I've got the Tower Heavy Duty starter, two Venom 7.2v 3000mah batteries, and the wrong size starter cone. I have an OS 120AX and a YS FZ110s. These are two kick***** engines so I want a kick***** starter to fire them up.

Do I get more mah, more volts, or both, or keep what I have and just get the big cone?

Thanks. I'm done! [&o][:@]:eek::D By the way, I REALLY LOVE to fly airplanes!!! :D:D:D ;)[&:]

RE: electric starter
 

Pick up a 12v battery. A lawn and garden tractor battery is 12 volts and has enough "umph" to turn over most planes, and costs ~$20. I've used it on engines up to a Saito 180.

Ken

RE: electric starter
 

Thanks. I was just coming back on to say that it doesn't have to be cordless. My planes always get started in the same spot, so while it's nice not having wires around the prop it's not totally necessary.

RE: electric starter
 

Like Ken I just use the Garden Tractor batteries. They work great with my little tower starters as well as my Sullivan Dynatrons

RE: electric starter
 

finer edge manufacturing makes an adapter to fit various starters that allow you to use a Mikita drill 18V battery...you can start a 1.60 2 stroke....no problem...the down side is the price of the batteries...
let me see if I can help you with voltage verus amps.....
electricity is lazy..it will only do the minimum to get a job done..and will always take the path of least resistance to return to it's source...however it will return to its source in a milisecond..even if that path back to source is through you....
1 the term amp hour really does nothing for you...just gives you an idea of the batteries capacity.
2 If a battery is rated at 1800 mAh that does not mean that the most amps you will get is 1800mA...you will get more than 1800mA depending on the circuit and the demand, and of course the state of charge
3 if you have a power supply that is capable of suppling 300 amps like a car jump start battery...the power supply can supply up to 300 amps..but will only supply what is demanded.
4. it takes 1 volt to push 1 amp through 1 ohm of resistance
5 voltage in series is additive but the amps available remains the same(like a d-cell flashlight)
6 voltage in parallel is constant but power is additive

hope this helps you some
Good flyin to ya

RE: electric starter
 

Since you already have the Venom batteries, they will work FINE...

Wire them up in series to get 14.4v, and get the larger starter cone.

The larger cone has a larger lever moment so the energy from the starter gets transferred properly.

Right now what your doing is akin to trying to pry out a nail with a jeweler's screwdriver... the lever is TOO SMALL!

The larger cone will give a better grip as well... but ALWAYS use the running start.

RE: electric starter
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; line-height: 115%"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%"><font color="#800080">gaRCfield</font></span>,</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; line-height: 115%">What did you end up going with and how did it work for you? </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; line-height: 115%">Coop</span></div>

RE: electric starter
 

I have the Tower Hobbies heavy duty starter, two 7.2 volt, 2500 nimh car battery packs, and a large starter cone.

No need to 'running start' anything (for when Iforget, good idea to do anyway), it will crank right through compression on both my 120 two stroke and 110 four stroke.

Thanks for the advice guys!

RE: electric starter
 

Here's a pic. Icharge it after every 2 or 3 days of flying, though could probably go much longer than that.

RE: electric starter
 

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="color: windowtext"><font face="Times New Roman">gaRCfield</font></span><font face="Times New Roman">,</font></span>

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</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 11pt"><font face="Times New Roman">For now I am going to stick with my 12V lead calcium battery.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>When hooked up directly to the starter with 10 gauge connectors it performs well.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I can start my 1.20 four stroke on the compression stroke.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I will get the larger cone but for now I have this:www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p and it performs well.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>In addition I will get the adapter for the Makita battery:www.afineredgemfg.com/index.htm.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>It just looks cool and if it works half as good as a Makita drill I don&rsquo;t think any NiMH battery will compare.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The only draw back is the price.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I will do more research and see if I can get the battery cheaper somewhere and just buy the drill along with it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I have always like them, that way I have the drill and charger to boot.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>These are the things I have learned: </font></span>

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</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 11pt"><font face="Times New Roman">Hope this helps.</font></span>

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</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 11pt"><font face="Times New Roman">Coop</font></span>

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RE: electric starter
 

I know your post is an old post, but I want to say thank you, for the information that will now resolve my starting issues. Now I will purchase an identical set-up as yours and using a Hobbico base unit for holding the "Wolfpack" batteries.

After running 40 and 60 sized glow engines since the 80's, I starting having difficulties starting my OS 75AX and major complications in cranking my new Thunder Tiger 91 4 stroke for break in. The only way I could get my TT 91 cranked was using car jumper cables and my idling vehicle. Even that was tasking the alternator to the car. After several banana plug meltdowns, me going knucking futs and a half day later, the engine is broken in. The next day was going to be a maiden flight for my Corsair, but I knew that was not going to happen until I buy a new starter to replace my 19 year old heavy duty starter. So now that I have your input, I should be up and running next week with your set-up.

Mike

RE: electric starter
 

You can see how I wired mine up here....

http://image2-6.rcuniverse.com/e1/ga.../lg-178914.jpg

http://image2-6.rcuniverse.com/e1/ga.../lg-178913.jpg