electric starter
 

whats the best way to set up a battery to run a electric starter at the field

RE: electric starter
 

ive got a tower hobbies power starter 12v with batterry cable ends on it

RE: electric starter
 

Depends, how big is the motor, if it's a small<1 cuin, a pair of bannana jacks are fine it the power panel or small alligator clips, but for big starters, like gassers, I ues a car battery and big deavy-duty alligator clips or even buy repair terminals for cars, the kind you clamp the old cable to, the trick is to find a way to make a good solid connection that's user friendly. Toting a car battery sucks, so I just use my pacific aeromodels starter for the big stuff, it's gear reduced, my sullivan for the stuborn < 1 cuin stuff and the Hornet for 1/2A stuff to prevent engine damage.

RE: electric starter
 

I have mine secured inside a field box, and then it's connected to a power panel. I soldered bananna connectors on the wires of the starter and that plugs into the power panel.

Most starters come with clamp style connectors that you can clip directly onto the battery. This works, but you have to be careful that the connectors don't touch and short out. It will make some major sparks.

RE: electric starter
 

I got tired of the heavy battery in the flight box. I bought (2) 2400mah nimh packs for R/C cars, wired them together and mounted the pack on the starter. No cords to get caught in the prop too. It starts ever engine I have except the Saito 1.20 and I hand flip that one.

Down side to this setup is you need a charger that will handle the size of pack.


Dru.

RE: electric starter
 

Yup the car batteries work great...

I use two 7.4v 3800 NiMH packs, which actually fit in the Hobbico 12v "base" they provide for their whimpy battery.

The whole assembly looks clean and with a normal starter I can turn over a 50CC engine with ease... along with my 1.20's 1.80's, etc.

RE: electric starter
 

Can you tell me more about the packs you use? Are they sub-c?

RE: electric starter
 

[/quote]
Can you tell me more about the packs you use? Are they sub-c?
[/quote]



The lighter starter uses two 3000 Nimh 7cell packs (sub C size) in series for a total of 16.8 volts and this imparts major performance over all the commecial portables I've ever seen. My mondo starter is the same cheap Tower starter with a high capacity switch and two 5000 Nimh 7 cell packs (C size). This combo outperforms even many geared types.

RE: electric starter
 

Yup I pretty much did what John said above.

The only difference is I used two "Wolfpack" 3800mAh 7.4v packs from Tower wired in series to produce 14.8 volts.

I cut the existing cable from the starter and wired up two Tamaya style connectors for the batteries.

I charge each battery separately on my charger... so I charge the packs up in 2 hours at 1C.

On a typical weekend of flying I use up about 1000 mA on each pack ( or less! ) and that's over 20+ starts, including hard starts, larger planes, etc.

In other words I could theoretically go 1 month between charges if I wanted to... I tend to charge the packs every 2 weeks though.

I had previously purchased the Hobbico 12v battery and container sold by Tower. But I found that the battery would barely last me a season, and the starter was anemic with the battery sold by Tower.

After starting a larger plane, after borrowing a starter from someone at the field, who had done what John is suggesting, I decided to do likewise... there is NO going back now! It's a huge difference..

RE: electric starter
 

I have the battery pack from Tower and I am very unhappy with the performance. I thought You had found something that would fit inside the case. It would be an easy solution with minimal fabrication for me since the case is already attached. If that is not a good way to go I will do what you and John did.

RE: electric starter
 

What i did was run a hot and ground wire from my Pickup battery to the back of my pickup. Drilled two holes inside the liscence plate spot and put two bolts with wing nuts on them. Then i just hook my starter straight to 12V works great. Don't think it would crank big gassers but that is the starter itself not being big enough. But will turn a 180 quite well. Where we fly most times my planes are at the back of my truck anyway and if not then I use the panel from my flight box. With using the pickup though I don't even take my field box as i have everything in a bag and small plastic boxes. Most field boxes don't work very well IMO. The drawers fall out or won't close easily. Hard to get to battery also.

Oh use pretty heavy guage wire or you lose power running it that far. But then your battery is always hot. And your truck or car will recharge any time you go anywhere so unless it goes bad you always have a hot battery.

RE: electric starter
 

Yes I fit TWO 3800 "Wolfpacks" within the Hobbico case.

I had to cut away part of the flashing, but they fit just fine once done.

RE: electric starter
 

For the complete "electrically challenged" guy, can someone validate the proper wiring of this? Looking at the pictures it appears that it goes as follows:

1) Black wire from starter to Black lead from Battery1
2) Red wire from starter to Red lead from Battery2
3) Connect Red lead from Battery1 to Black lead from Battery2

That correct?

-MA

RE: electric starter
 

Correct!

However here is something that will make this easier...

Click on this link:

[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=LXMTZ3+&search=Go]Connector[/link]

Using one of those, you only have to cut the existing starter wires and attach one new connector.

It also makes the batteries easier to disconnect to recharge...

RE: electric starter
 

Awesome!! That's exactly what I needed. Thanks Opjose! [8D]

RE: electric starter
 

BTW: I also kept the cut piece of cable and placed a corresponding connector on it.

That way I could always go back to hooking the starter up to a field box.

I have yet to use this however...

RE: electric starter
 

Just for a little clarification:

I'm unclear about the 'amperage' here. In other threads people were saying that the hobbico power core was weak due to the amperage - 1.2 amps. Is this different than having a 12v 1200mah battery?

I just got the heavy duty starter. There seems to be little difference between that and the regular '90' starter. I tried both with the power core 1.2 amp battery, and then with my car batter.

I then tried my '90' starter with my 14.4v power drill battery, and WOW! I think it's a 3amp battery. This is different than 3000mah?

I want to get two of the 7.2v rc car battery packs and wire them together with the above connector. Will there be a difference in cranking amps with different capacity batteries, or is the capacity strictly the length of time the battery will run?

Also, if my charger can charge up to 16 cells, can I just charge the packs while still connected in series?

I was not looking forward to taking my EE classes, but I'm so sick and tired of not knowing this stuff! Next semester hopefully I will be able to give advice and not have to ask;)

RE: electric starter
 

gaRCfield


I'm no EE.

But a 3000 Mah battery will give you
3 amps for 1 hour.

As for charging, charge each pac seperate.

Also 1.2 Amps is 1200 mAhs.

Bob

RE: electric starter
 

Go to Walmart and buy a $30 Black&Decker Jumper battery, you will use it to start, charge, all kinds of things, it comes with 2 or 3 chargers from the house or car, will jump off your miata or the honda thats been sitting in the basement for 3 years (yes it will) and anything you need 12 volts for at the field without ruining your car battery (had that happen too)...its a great investment,I saw a guy at the field with one charging his lipo's and I was having trouble (redoing a 91 miata) with a car and BOING it hit me , what a great idea...so I got one, very useful so far and after 2 days of carb cleaning I DID get my 95 Honda Magna running!!!...course the tank is shot but thats another story......Rog

RE: electric starter
 

Do not increase the voltage if you expect to keep your starter with your stuff and not have to go looking for it all the time. Its as simple as that. No matter how much you agonize and anylyze. Mine all operate at 16.8 volts seven cell packs and various capacitys the all work great the small half A unit I charge all fourteen cells together and the two larger units each seven cell pack is wired to charge with separte dedicated peak chargers. Bottom line all the starters operate at 16.8 volts regardless. The commercial portable starters that operate at 12 volts are in My Opinion a complete waste of money.


After some years now thankfully a number of the other locals are copying this set up and I finally do not have to go looking for my starters, well at least not as much.

John

RE: electric starter
 

Thanks guys. I can get a couple of 7.2v, 1800mah batts for $13 ea. Sounds like that will be enough then;)

RE: electric starter
 

The power available to turn the starter depends on the voltage available. What many people don't consider is the internal resistance of the battery. About the worst setup to use is the gelcel, which has a fairly high resistance, plus a pretty short life. They do work well as doorstops, so not a total loss.

I built my first cordless starter over 25 years ago. Just a couple RC car packs in series of only 1200 mAh which was plenty for a weekend. I would select batteries today based on what you have on hand to charge with or what you want to buy. Some chemistries tend to self discharge.

Regardless, keep the voltage high, the internal resistance (# cells x mOhm/cell) low, and the wiring heavy duty, short and clean.

RE: electric starter
 

i use one of these 7.4v batt's (hobbico yellow starter like above) to start my .47 gms.
http://www.all-battery.com/72v4200ma...umorobots.aspx
with a 40 amp drain rate (4200 mah) these can turn a starter well w/ 7.4v, let alone 14.8 if i were to add another pack

or you could make a pack w/ these (way overdoing it) and power your starter(and everything else) for a month or so (being sarcastic)
http://www.all-battery.com/4pcsfsize...batteries.aspx

RE: electric starter
 

Perhaps I was not clear enough on the relation between voltage and power.
When you double the voltage, in effect you get 4 times the power. (It's actually a little short of that, because with the higher voltage, you also have higher losses due to higher current.)

But if you ever plan on running bigger engines, more power (grunt, grunt, grunt).

RE: electric starter
 

I've got a 1.20 two stroke and a 1.10 four stroke so I need the power. Thanks for all the input.

RE: electric starter
 

Ok, after a few shipments I was able to try some comparisons and nothing seems to be working.

I tried two starters - Hobbico 90 Deluxe starter, and Tower Hobbies 180 Heavy Duty Starter. I tried both starters with a fully charged Power Core battery (12v 1.2a lead acid), my car battery (12v, lots of amps, lead acid) and two 7.2v 3000mah nimh wired together with the above connector.

None of this is enough to start my 120AX. Sometimes, with even the 'weakest' setup, I am able to do the 'running start' and hold the starter against the cone for a full revolution. and once out of 10 tries I was able to get the prop spinning enough for multiple cycles.

I guess I need to try a different style starter?

Boy am I having growing pains...starter issues, pull pull issues....OOOOUUUUUCCCCHHHH!!!! :):)

RE: electric starter
 

My Hobbico 180 WILL turn over BGX-1's, 1.20 2C, 1.80 4C engines, etc. using two 7.4v packs wired in series... as you've tried.

But you have to remember that:

- You need the right starter cone. You can't use a small cone with a large engine.
- You need to give the starter a "running start" so to speak.
- Your engine must be broken in.

A small cone cannot produce enough torque "leverage" as the cone is too small. Did you change yours out?

You need to turn the engine against the direction of rotation fully until the beginning of the reverse compression stroke. This let's the starter FREELY turn the engine almost one turn ( two on 4C's ), which gets it moving before the cylinder goes to TDC. This extra inertia gets permits the starter to crank the engine past max compression, given the other factors...

Starting a new engine is problematic, particularly with 2C glow engines and even worst with ABC/ABN engines. The first time you start this type of engine up you not only need to do the other things, but it pays to preheat the cylinder head with a heat gun, to make the engine easier to crank over. Once you do have it started, it is important to run through the breakin routine which will loosen things up so that subsequent starts are easier.

RE: electric starter
 

Thanks, I guess I'll try a larger cone. The engine has roughly a gallon and a half through it. The plane has been inside and I tried starting it in a warm place. I did the 'running start' routine.

Does anyone know exactly what the difference is between the 90 and the 180 starter (deluxe vs heavy duty)?

RE: electric starter
 

You want the starter to perform, Up the voltage, 16.8 volts its as simple as that. all the comercial 12 volt portable systems are whimps.

RE: electric starter
 

Heavier guage wire, bigger stator, etc. which will handle more current...

Note however the only way to get that extra power out of the HD starter is to up the voltage.

It will handle it!

I'm able to crank over 50CC engines if the voltage is high enough and the batteries do not sag with the load.

RE: electric starter
 

It would be nice if the website mentioned any of this. They say the starter is enough for a 1.80, recommend the power core, and don't say anything about using a larger cone.

Thanks for your help guys.

RE: electric starter
 

Yeah so much of this hobby involves "black arts" and "arcane magic"...

This is typical of a manufacturer seeing a need, acting to fill it, but forgetting to test them theirselves and then explain things to the end user... Which is often typical... You have encountered this yourself several times already!

BTW: The "power core" 12v T.H. recommends is not worth purchasing... I wished they would merely sell a package to store whichever batteries we select instead.

I gutted my Power Core , and replaced the abyssmaly weak 12v battery with a pair of racing batteries, so now I charge the starter on Friday before a weekend of flying... the one charge suffices after the "upgrade".

RE: electric starter
 

if your car battery will not turn it something is wrong, maybe the cone idk
are you priming the engine? if not that would help a lot. (dont flood it that wont help)
are you turning on the starter before you put it on the spinner? if not do that
turn the prop backwards, by hand, until you start to feel compression (make sure glo-starter is out) then try to start it

if you are doing all of these then its either the battery's or the connectors/wires
it sounds to me like the starter is not getting the amps it needs to turn it over. a car battery can deliver some serious amps (it starts yor car, at least a 4 cylinder motor, you are tring to turn a 1 cylinder...............)
and others have tried it with 2 7.4 pack wired together and it worked so..... what types of plugs do you have on the starter, are they the aligator clips or banana plug or what???

uping the voltage will work but not if your wires/connectors cant handle it.

RE: electric starter
 

He is NOT using a "car battery" ( which incidentaly gaRCfield would put out about 13.8v or so since the car battery would see almost no load ).

He's stated that he is using one of these:

[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL372&P=ML]Click me![/link]

While adecuate for a .40 glow engine those things are awful for anything larger... and even then the included 12v battery barely lasted me a season before it was used up.

RE: electric starter
 

Ok so this project is really getting to me and I am totally losing my mind. Please tell me what to do as I'm now confused and frustrated and just want to get this over with and take a nice long break from this plane.
this is what really confuses me.

I've got the Tower Heavy Duty starter, two Venom 7.2v 3000mah batteries, and the wrong size starter cone. I have an OS 120AX and a YS FZ110s. These are two kick***** engines so I want a kick***** starter to fire them up.

Do I get more mah, more volts, or both, or keep what I have and just get the big cone?

Thanks. I'm done! [&o][:@]:eek::D By the way, I REALLY LOVE to fly airplanes!!! :D:D:D ;)[&:]

RE: electric starter
 

Pick up a 12v battery. A lawn and garden tractor battery is 12 volts and has enough "umph" to turn over most planes, and costs ~$20. I've used it on engines up to a Saito 180.

Ken

RE: electric starter
 

Thanks. I was just coming back on to say that it doesn't have to be cordless. My planes always get started in the same spot, so while it's nice not having wires around the prop it's not totally necessary.

RE: electric starter
 

Like Ken I just use the Garden Tractor batteries. They work great with my little tower starters as well as my Sullivan Dynatrons

RE: electric starter
 

finer edge manufacturing makes an adapter to fit various starters that allow you to use a Mikita drill 18V battery...you can start a 1.60 2 stroke....no problem...the down side is the price of the batteries...
let me see if I can help you with voltage verus amps.....
electricity is lazy..it will only do the minimum to get a job done..and will always take the path of least resistance to return to it's source...however it will return to its source in a milisecond..even if that path back to source is through you....
1 the term amp hour really does nothing for you...just gives you an idea of the batteries capacity.
2 If a battery is rated at 1800 mAh that does not mean that the most amps you will get is 1800mA...you will get more than 1800mA depending on the circuit and the demand, and of course the state of charge
3 if you have a power supply that is capable of suppling 300 amps like a car jump start battery...the power supply can supply up to 300 amps..but will only supply what is demanded.
4. it takes 1 volt to push 1 amp through 1 ohm of resistance
5 voltage in series is additive but the amps available remains the same(like a d-cell flashlight)
6 voltage in parallel is constant but power is additive

hope this helps you some
Good flyin to ya

RE: electric starter
 

Since you already have the Venom batteries, they will work FINE...

Wire them up in series to get 14.4v, and get the larger starter cone.

The larger cone has a larger lever moment so the energy from the starter gets transferred properly.

Right now what your doing is akin to trying to pry out a nail with a jeweler's screwdriver... the lever is TOO SMALL!

The larger cone will give a better grip as well... but ALWAYS use the running start.