RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Ahhhh......If you can fly the pattern with an LT-40 inverted...you can fly anything inverted......I praticed and praticed catching my LT-40 inverted.....finally got where I could do it at will.....as I was doing this, worked on turning inverted.....until I could fly the whole pattern inverted.....why do it with a trainer? Because it is hard....what is a trainer but an airplane you learn with.....
Did it help me who knows but my second airplane was a 4 Star 60....one fine day I was inverted at the departure end of the runway at around 25 ft altitude...no warning dead stick...no problem got the airplane down and stopped it at my feet...no I didn't fly the complete pattern...and had light winds.......but being inverted dead stick while it got my attention wasn't that big a deal.....
To answer your orginal question. No you haven't mastered your trainer.......Good luck and Good flying

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

You started this thread bringing up an excellent question, which made me believe you wanted to master your trainer, that machine that has been designed to be stable enough as to learn the basics of RC flying with it.

But basic skills are much more than soloing, and they are to be mastered with this type of forgiving model.

A second or third plane may be easier to roll and keep inverted, but it is not easier to fly.

With these models, there are complications of control and flight to pay attention to; hence, that will be the wrong moment to be distracted by improving basic skills.

You are missing nothing; we just have different approaches on what to squeeze out from different models.

I have seen too many fast and capable models smashed by pilots that thought they had graduated from a trainer.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

So many good answers to this question, but it begs the question-what is mastering any airplane by definition. Maybe it's as simple as performing the perfect scale takeoff, approach and landing. A trainer is designed to teach you just that. Then move up to aircraft designed for other things.

By the way, perfect takeoffs, approaches and landing are not easy. Just because it landed in one peice doesn't mean total success. I've seen guys that can perform very difficult stuff but can land worth a crap, at least where it looks like a scale type landing. Work on perfecting or should I say replicating scale flight.

A perfect line down the runway, no waivering and take off at correct speed with no tail dragging. A perfect two wheel touch down and slight run out. All these SOCALLEDsimple manuvers are not so simple with any plane-Work on that??

Good luck

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I did snap rolls and loops and rolls and even corrected rolls with my trainers.  However, what really told me I had mastered my trainer was I could land the trainer in a box 10ft long and 3ft wide (1ft for the trainer, and a foot on either side).  I could do that both under power and dead-stick.  I could also do touch and goes with just 1 wheel touching.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

why not just try the next step up from a trainer with a buddy box to see if your comfortable with it. i've been flying 30 yrs. ON and OFF, sometimes years in between. always nervous when coming back. flying my friends trainer recently, and my son's a few years back, i think i do worse! they aren't fly where you point them. a couple of popscicle sticks under the trailing edge of your trainer will make it more exciting too. (as Mentioned earlier). have a go, just don't go OVERBOARD!!! After a few years off i started back with my first pattern plane. like riding a bike.
just my $.02 worth. BUDDYBOX til your comfortable.

PS. Trainer will make a great floatplane also!!!

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Great posts! I am going to just take the trainer out and see what i can do with it this weekend, Sounds like it could be somewhat of a chalenge to try some of these things that is suggested with a trainer. I do not think I chalenge myself enough with the trainer! looking forward to trying some new stuff with it!  Bob



Dont want to crash? land higher!

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Want a real challenge?  Most trainers can be flown with just the throttle and rudder, never touching the elevator or ailerons.  Trim the airplane to fly level at half throttle and then go for it.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

On my Alpha trainer, the right tire is nearly bald from running one wheel on the ground instead of landing. Ithought I was the only luney tunes doing this. The reason the right tire is the one bald is because the prevailing wind comes from the one end of the runway, and if you screw up the "hold" on the ailerons and rudder, it will run right at you, if you are not on the outside tire, not a safe thing...http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/49_49.gif

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Mastering an aircraft, and being ready to move up to a more nimble plane are two VERY different things. 

One can spend YEARS flying the same aircraft, and never really MASTER it.  I do feel, when you can safely, and consistantly perform basic rolls, loops, patterns, and grease darn near every landing it's time to move up to something a little hotter.  Years back, I knew it was time to move up when I was bored out of my mind flying my trainer.  I could fly that ting in my sleep, however I Still own my old Royal Air 40T that I learned to fly on...and to this day I don't think I have "mastered" it. 

LOL, just for giggles I'm gonna take it out at some point this week :)</p>

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I like to do one better - take the plane up, intentionally dead stick and trim it out for a nice glide.

After landing, restart it and take-off. Set the throttle for a slight climb and don't touch it using only the rudder for control. Fly it until the fuel runs out and dead stick it back to the runway using only the rudder (not touching the elevator).

While flying under power, try gaining momentum and do a loop or rudder roll. Lots of fun to be had flying a trainer as a single channel. And for the newer flyers out there, they used to fly single channel aerobatics in competition.

Hogflyer

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Hogflyer, that is way over my head..http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...eeth_smile.gif

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

(Hogflyer, careful you are giving away all the secrets garnered from many decades of flying models and training countless beginners on their trainers.  And we just tell them that we are just trimming it out)

To all the newbies (less than a decade or two) - Nevermind.</p>

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Will try! When I was learning to fly I messed up and had the alerons backwords and had to get the plane back by rudder and elevator! That was tough! Bob



Remember it easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission!

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Excellent posts!

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I'll bet you learned something about careful approaches with that one!! Wphew.. must have been an interesting few minutes lining that one up for a safe landing!!

CGr.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Something that everyone missed that cost me my first plane was.. Learn to tune your engine..If you are on a teainer it may be your first plane. So learning to tune the engine may save you alot of trouble down the road. If the engine is not running you just learn to deadstick...Just my small thoughts..lol

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I said that of a Kadet LT-40 once to a friend, that I thought Ineeded another, better plane. He proceeded to fly left and right rolling circles with my poor underpowered pathetic trainer. Handing the tranmitter back to me he smiled. winked and said...."It aint the plane!"

T

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

It is a misconception that trainers are easier to fly. Like bicycles with training wheels, trainers are harder to crash, but once you have some basic skill they are not easier to fly. To the OP and anyone else considering this question: if there is someone at the field who will let you buddy box with their stick or 4 Star, go get yourself a taste of sport flying. Nothing is easier to fly and control than the classic "2nd airplanes," although they are easier to crash because they aren't designed to save you from yourself. What I've learned is that to build piloting skill, you need to be flying the airplane that makes whatever skill you are working on the easiest. So if that is flying the circuit and landing, then stick with the trainer. If it's loops and rolls, then a more neutral handling plane is in order. The one exception to that is not to use your first flying season time on a build. If you have basic control down and already have a sport plane, then don't be afraid of it. But if you will have to take your hobby time to put one together, then continue learning on your trainer as best you can until winter.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I have and fly lots of planes. The hardest one to me to fly now is my kadet 40.lol.. I use it for a bomb drop. I fly mostley at home on my 25 acres. So when all the neighbor kids are around they like for me to drop the parachute men and mini marshmellows.. I have the hardest time relearning how to land that floaty plane..lol..It does not harrier land.lol

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I have never flown a trainer so I have no idea how it flies or when you know when to move on. I do however think that, IF you are honest with yourself, you will know when you are pretty good with a trainer. I think every person judge by different levels and things. For one person being capable of handling a trainer at a lower level - will feel they have mastered it - because perhaps they are only interested in doing lazy circuit flying and just enjoy doing low and slow fly bys. Some peole will have an higher level at which they judge whether the plane has been mastered - because they want to go extreme with planes (3D and fast hard flying for example).

In other words, I think, it's what type of pilot you are which will determine if you have mastered it. I think it has more to do with - when have you mastered a certain type of flying. This then also leads to what the planes capabilities are. There are too many variables that influence an accurate answer I think.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

In my opinion, being able to do crazy, nuts things in trainers is great, Ido all kinds of stuff with my old trainer i shouldnt. But in reality, why in the world would somebody who will never fly 3D, nor has the desire, need to learn to do these things. If a guy is going to be taking off, flying circuits, occasional loop and roll, why the heck would he need to learn the other stuff. I say, its all based on what you plan to do, if what I mentioned is all you plan to do, and you are proficient and can perform landings takeoffs, without any problem, and regualr flight is a breezy, move on if youd like. You will get all kinds of opinions on all this stuff, but if you have the basics of flight downm taking off, landing basic flying, loops and rolls without losing alt. and exiting a loop on the same level no problem. Then go for it. Everyone has thier ideas of what is right, I suggest taking the bits and pieces of info that will help you and use them. Not to mention, some of the older guys that helped me when I was starting, while they have the most and best info, sometimes old habits die hard. IF an engine booklet says, run the engine rich and at full bore for a tank of gas to break her in, do it.... The technology andinstructions are there for a reason, but since they had been doing things one way for years they had me do it their way, ruined some equipment that way. Bottom line, when you are flying it solo with no trouble and are able to do the stunts and things you plan on doing for a long time, move on. Some people seem to think that a buddy box only works on a trainer.... get a second plane buddy box her unitl you can fly her, jsut like you trusty ol trainer!

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Yes it was a tough landing I bent the nose gear and broke the prop but that was it! I had started with a tower hobbies 4 channel and switched to a 7 c so I could not just get the plane up high and switch it on the bottom. So I was in trouble plus being very new at flying! I knew I was in trouble when I went to go left and it went right, Right over my new pickup! Lucky I was the only one out there. I just had to forget the alerons and fly rudder till I got it back, It still is in my hangar and except for that one flight has been a great airplane! I now know that if you push the stick right and the right aleron goes down its a bob! Bob




Want to keep from crashing? Land higher!

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Gary-

Glad we agree-

I fly out of Ft Bend-a bit closer to where I live and more out in the open.


Larry

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

great thread all. ive been soaking up a lot of the info from these threads and post before i pull the trigger and buy a trainer. i have zero flight experience thus far (have quite a bit of ground experience with monster trucks, some truggy &amp; buggy).

im kinda lucky that there is middlesex county r/c flyers is about 1/2 mile from my house so i'll hook up with them at some point.

great info here, great bunch.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

hi keep that trainer around- (it will fly better with a straight wing or you can add anheadral-it will fly better )when you are away from the hobby for a while -be it weather-or your personel life-it will be real good to get your fingers working the TX again- and then you can get back to you expensive fast stuff i find planes that require a lot of assembly time at the field- cowls -cabaines-seem to have the effect of reducing flying time and you get rusty -from not doing as much actual flyingjust my two cents

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I think that if you can do rolling circles with a trainer, youshould've moved on LONG ago.  However, I agree with the statement thattrainers aren't the easiest to fly.  I think that the easiest plane tofly is a great 3D plane set-up on low rates.  They're very responsive,but not twitchy.  They go where you point, but they're not unstable. They slow for landing incredibly well, and float for miles.  In noorientation do they fly poorly.  I think that your first two planesshould be hard to crash (Trainer/Ultra Stick type plane).

Iguess the real way to answer the OP is like this: if you think you'reready....you are.  A second plane isn't any harder to fly....it's allabout confidence.  If you BELIEVE you'll be fine, you will be (untilyou get to Warbirds :D).  That's the way half of life works.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

CastorTroy answer this one.....a drivers license.....I don't plan on ever driving on an interstate...or in a city, I live on a farm...and only drive to the general store in my very small village...I don't see the need to learn how to control my car above 30 MPH...or what a stop lights colors mean....do you think you'd want to drive on roads with people like that?
Same with RC....I don't fly 3D, I don't have the desire....I fly scale like with scale like areobatics......but there is no promise that your aircraft will always be right side up...won't stall or get hit......If you can't fly into a situations at will, you surely can't fly out of it when you have too.....
I have crewed alot of full scale airplanes.....on a pilot's check ride......the new guy would but a newpaper up over his windshield and close his eyes.....the pilot in command would turn the aircraft a few times then put us in a weird attitude like 45 deg of bank and 15 deg nose down...
ok new guy open your eyes and fix it.......we never planned to fly in that attitude but the drivers knew how to get out of it....
always learn all that you can.....stalls......inverted flight.....unusal attitude recovery both going away from you and toward you.....which is areobatics....you may save yourself your favorite airplane some day.
sometimes you can't plan for things.....near my field a year ago or so a factory that made gas additives blew up....all the aircraft that were flying were hit with the shock wave...some it turned 90 deg in the roll.....no planes were lost...cause the guys were good pilots......then they had to dodge debris.......

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Here's my 2&cent;<div></div><div>I first got into this hobby about 15 years ago. I started with a Tower Trainer and learned to fly it. My instructor at the time had the same mindset as many of you in that he didn't think I was ready to move on until I could basically do very nice legit aerobatics: perfect loops, axial rolls with no altitude loss, fly inverted for a tank of fuel, etc. And I practiced and practiced on those things until I could do them, and do them well. By the time I moved onto my 2nd plane (a .40 Patriot) I was more than confident in doing anything and everything with my trainer. However, what I found out is that a lot of the things I learned on my trainer, I had to unlearn on the Patriot. The Patriot was a much more capable plane and it was sooooo much easier to do aerobatics and things of that nature that my naturaltendencieslearned on the trainer actually hindered me at first.</div><div></div><div>Now stuff like still being able to get out of trouble, being able to take off and land, and basic skills still served me VERY well, but the more advanced maneuvers I learned on the trainer ended up frustrating me a lot at first.</div><div></div><div>Now fast forward to present day. During high school and into college I got out of the hobby as I had other priorities. This year, after about a 10 year hiatus, I got back into the hobby. I started off with a trainer, and picked everything back up pretty quickly. And now I'm ready to move onto a new plane. However, I'm moving on not being able to do perfect axial rolls on the trainer or fly inverted all day long because of my last experience. I am comfortable landing/taking off in gusty cross winds, I can place it perfectly on the field where I want to, can get myself out of trouble, and am confident everytime I go up in it.</div><div></div><div>My rolls aren't perfectly axial, I have a hard time holding her inverted, but for me I don't want to make it do something its not designed to do.</div><div></div><div>It would be like using a monster truck to do an indy race. It could be done, but I'd rather use something designed to do it.</div>

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Ithink it has something to do with a vacuum cleaner...

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

You've mastered a trainer when you can drag the fin on the runway about 50 feet, then get the plane back in the air.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Inverted for a full tank on a trainer?     Is he out of his mind???
 
Hell I fly my lt40 for almost 40 minutes on a tank..If I had to do that inverted all at one time I would find a new instructer...It's hard as hell to just get my weak lt 40 to fly inverted at all...lol...

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

As I said in this post before......if you can fly an LT-40 inverted for the whole pattern...then you can fly anything inverted......once you can do it for a lap around the pattern...you can do it for a whole tank...but why unless you just want to......IMHO you have demo'ed mastery of inverted flight with a trainer, in a lap around the pattern......low level high speed inverted passes is above mastery.

the only time I ever saw someone have to unlearn something in RC was a student of mine who was a sail plane pilot...he had to unlearn what control surface to go to first and to add throttle........I've seen alot of folks have to modify what they knew...but not unlearn it.

this has been an outstanding post...as it has caused many of us to stop and think....I wonder how many trainers will get dusted off this week end for a go in the pattern

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

My trainer won't sit long enough to collect dust. :D

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Maybe modify is a better word than unlearn it. All my point was, that for me anyways, initially it was a little frustrating flying the next plane because to do many of the moves on the trainer was different than on the Patriot. Basically I felt like I wasted time doing them on a trainer, rather than moving on once I was confident flying the trainer competently.
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RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

What happened is you took another lesson on the learning curve. Over time, as experience grows and the number of aircraft flown increases you'll learn they all fly and feel different yet there is a similarity to them. It's a matter of learning how to deal with the individual flight characteristics of that particular aircraft and adjusting to it, like jumping from a quickie pylon racer to a high-start launched glider, pattern plane, trainer etc. They all fly differently and require a different touch to fly, but with experience you can hop between them and not think about it.

Hogflyer

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

if you can dismantle and assemble your trainer blindfolded, if you manage to do all the maneuvers a trainer can do and you think you can do better. then you might have mastered it already.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I've very recently seen expert pilots do some things with my Avistar that I can't do yet, My first two planes were high wing electrics. (J-3 and Super Cub)
When I got to the point I could fly all the basic manuevers these planes are capable of and landsuccessfully anywhere I wanted (within the plane's limits) I moved up to my third plane, which was a low wing (T-28). WhenI moved up to glow engines, I followed the samepattern. Started with an Avistar and moved up from there.If you can fly your glow engine trainer in 10mph winds,fly the pattern inverted, and land safely and consistently, you still have not mastered it, but you are probably ready foryour next plane.