Mastering a Trainer?
 

Ive seen this term thrown around alot but never have seen something to quantify what it means. Is there a measure, or a goal to know when you have mastered a trainer?

Or do you just know?

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I was told that when you can try and crash it and you still can't crash it. Sarcasm, but you understand. I realized at one point that nothing I did scared me with the trainer. I was trying all kinds of crazy stuff, even landed it in the pits one day. I was alone so it was ok.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

When every takeoff and landing is a breeze.  The upper air stuff, I guess as long as you dont make mistakes, and you can comfortably get yourself out of trouble. 

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Uhhh, landing in the pitts is never OK. You might want to rethink that one.http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/72_72.gif

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

The guys may not appreciate it.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

When you can hoover it and do a tail touch you are ready to move on.....:)

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

When you have learned every aerobatic maneuver that trainers can do and it's been boring for awhile. That said, all those maneuvers are easier on a sport plane, so in a way sticking with a trainer holds you back from learning. If you already have a sport plane, I'd say move on to it as soon as you stop bouncing your landings and generally beating up your trainer. If you don't already have one, fly your trainer until you're bored to tears with it.</p>

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Hover it? Is that a goal of a trainer? Perhaps I missed the point.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Good one... http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/thumbup.gif

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Is hoovering really flying ?

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I'd say when you can get your trainer to make pancakes for you for breakfast, that's when you just know you've mastered your trainer :)

Seriously though, one thing a guy once told me I tend you agree with, is when you can fly the pattern inverted, with a trainer, which wants to fly right side up pretty badly, you're flying it pretty well. Maybe not mastered, but at least on track.

Be careful though.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

No, no need to do any rethinking. All alone and nothing to damage but my plane if something went wrong.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I don't know too much about vacuum cleaners, but most trainers can do a bit more than just fly sloppy circles around the field.  Some will fly outside loops in close to stock configuration, but many have difficulty in doing simple things like spins.

The first thing to change is the center of gravity.  Trainers are designed to more or less fly in a self recovery mode.  To do this, the airplanes have the CG moved forward with the decalage to pick up the nose out of a dive without the pilot doing anything.  So move the CG back to the rearmost position shown on the plans, fly and retrim.

Increase control throws seems obvious.

The next easy thing to do to improve the airplane is reduce the decalage.  That means putting the wing and tail on the same angle of incidence and decreasing the down thrust on the engine.  You can also change the wing to another if you really want to experiment (it's surprising how often a wing survives a crash).

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

When you cannot perform the maneuvers you want to perform because the capabilities of the plane are insufficient, its time to move on.

Brad

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

when you can fly it in 18+ mph winds in a reasonable controlled mannor

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

:D

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Everyone will have an opinion on this here's mine...
You have master your trainer when......you grease in 95% of your landings
                                                                      You can fly the entire pattern inverted
                                                                      you can do more than one roll without loosing altitude
                                                                      and lastly you feel that you have gone just about as far as you can go with your trainer...
Whatever you do hold on to your trainer for those days when you just wanna be lazy and shot a tank full or two of touch and go's

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I have a feeling he learned in those winds, so that probably doesn't count. :D

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

GaryHarris:

Nobody knows what a trainer can do, until an experienced pilot pushes it to the limit.

My instructor used to do things with my trainer, that I have never been able to repeat!!

He did not endangered anyone, never folded a wing, or crashed the noble machine.

For me, the graduation test can be three basic maneuvers, performed each in 10 mph crossed wind:

1) A slow, but perfectly axial roll that takes the whole lenght of the field.
2) A perfectly round loop with same level in and out.
3) A greaceful landing on the center of the strip with soft touch down directly in front of the pilot.

Jumping to a more advanced model is nice and challenging, but it has nothing to do with having or not mastered your trainer yet.

A trainer is to keep forever, for you, and for friends that just begin.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

It was more like 30 mph winds yesterday.. They just popped up and I was really worried that I was gonna crash. Does flying backwards count? :D

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

There is never a time when one truly MASTERS an aircraft, of any type. Sooner or later, ALL mechanical items will fail, airplanes included, leaving you gasping at the mess made on the field. There are points of being skilled, and being comfortable, but one cannot master a machine, only maintain it. The best "experts" at any given motorsport, can fail at any given time. If you have gotten bored with a trainer, switch to a more competitive plane, for a while, then go back to the trainer, and see if you don't crash it. True, while a trainer is just that, a trainer... it has its place in the sport, and one should NEVER get rid of their trainer... I have found them to be "hones" so to speak.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I doubt Ill be able to many tricks with my plane.  It barely will do a torque roll.  (Kadet LT-40)  But I am comforatble with it, even somewhat confident.  Touch and goes, 3 dead sticks so far, no problem.  Ive been soloing for 4 weeks now.  Ill never get rid of the Kadet.  It just flys so sweet.

My next plane is about finished.  Its a Goldberg Eaglet 50 with an OS FS .30.  I took an inch out of the dehidral so it should be a little more of a sport plane than the Kadet.  I had started building a 4*60 but pulled off the build the Eaglet since I wanted a smaller trainer to carry around just in case I feel like stopping at the field after work or something.

When I finish the 4*60 Ill start building the SSE.  I figure Ill be fully ready for the SSE when its finished.  Maybe 6 months.

Even though I havent been flying very long, I notice that moves are coming naturally to me with having to think about them.  I think racing RC cars for 17 years may have helped me in a way.  And hurt me in a way.  Im still over controlling at times.

But yesterday when that wind kicked in I thought I was toast.  I couldnt idle it in and the gusts were really weird.  They would lift the plane, then try to slam it to the ground.  My first reaction was to get it down asap but I didnt panic.  If things wernt just right, Id circle around again, and again, and again.  lol  The wind wasnt going to slow down and there was no chance of making a pretty landing.  I landed in the grass just to be safe.  As soon as I touched down the wind blew it over. lol

That was the last flight of the day.  All the other guys saw fighting that wind and they started packing up to leave. 

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

It is if you're Bob Hoover-ing it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZBcapxGHjE

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

shhhhh dont spoil the kansas secret.

and yes please do not advance to your next plane before you can torque roll your trainer http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif(major sarcasim)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5VOdjM0kkc

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Hey my trainer has never made me pancakes, and I like pancakes! Mine was an arf from China, it makes sweat and sour chicken! I think you will just know! it is when you are just getting very bored with it because you have done all that it can do! But still like getting it out and just doing some lazy Sunday flying with it and the grandkids! Bob


Remember it is easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission!

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

That's a great way of putting it.

When nothing seems to bother you, nor make you nervous, you've mastered the plane...

As an added bonus, toss in medium winds and include cross wind landings.

If you don't even think about them, you've truely mastered the plane.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I disagree.

You're equating maintenance and up keep, with ability. The two are unrelated.

You can indeed "MASTER" anything. Mastery is nothing more than attaining a high level of proficiency.

This has nothing to do with mechanical failure or even auguring into the ground.

"Master" pilots can fail, and still be "master" pilots, race drivers, etc... as long as they survive.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Thats what helicopters are for. :D And I hate pancakes. Their like a bloated tortilla. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...used_smile.gif

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Thanks.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

i agree, when you can do "what ever you want" with your plane and your heart rate doesnt increase, you have mastered your plane

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Hi,
If Mastering means becoming competent and flying at the limits of the craft then few people really master a trainer. Try some one wheel touch and goes. I also teach my students to do axial rolls and get good at slow and low flying. Inverted under good control is a good measure IMHO also.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I don't mean to sound harsh...please don't take it that way....but from post 21 I don't think you have mastered the trainer......Now of course I haven't seen you fly.....and I am not taking anything away from your skills........nor Am I saying you aren't ready for a second airplane.....What I am saying is that aircraft is capable of more than you have pushed it to......inverted flight as in the whole pattern.....and perhaps some elevator and rudder to help in a slow roll......with a more aerobatic airplane these manuvers are easier to perform....perhaps that is the only way to learn them...then go back and apply what you learned to the trainer.....
I wonder if we ever truely master an airplane......Good flying to you and good luck 

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I agree a 100%! I don't belive there is such a thing of mastering a trainer, or any plane. Thats why I asked the question to begin with. I read, master a trainer then go to a low winged trainer, master that and go to an easy flying aerobatic plane etc. I think the wrong message is being sent out. I would word it something like, learn to solo a trainer with confidence and if youfeel like it, move up to something faster andgive it a try. When that scares the poop outa you, go back to the trainer and work on getting better with it. When you gain even more confidence with the trainer, try the second plane again.

One thing I will dissagree with you on is, why try to learn inverted flight on a plane that isn't designed to fly that way? I don't see that helping any since something like a Kadet LT-40 with tons of dehidral flys pretty weird down-upside. Not that I know for sure, but I don't see that helping any. Something I allways argued against with rc car racing. Most guys will preach, practice, practice practice. I think thats bad advise in a way. Practice doesn't make perfect if your doing it wrong to begin with. Practice perfection with the correctequipment and with the mindset of what you want to accomplish.

Practice "mod", race "stock".

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

That is the point!!!

It is harder to fly inverted and with total control with a Kadet than with an aerobatic bird.

There is no reason for not trying and improving, even if it takes the help of a buddy box.

Then, there will be much more to accomplish with that aerobat than just flying inverted, with which you are already proficient by practicing under more difficult conditions.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Gary-

My 2 cents worth, from someone else pretty new to the sport (and also from Houston)

Get a second plane.  I had been flying for about 6 months, about 8 weeks solo when I got my second plane.  It is an 40 size ultra stik, top wing, and equipped with flaps (haven't used them yet).  I've decreased throw to something pretty minimal, but will say that the plane has taken my level of expertise (lets call it beginner +) much higher much quicker because there is so much more I can do with this plane over my trainer while at the same time, it is easy to fly and to land.

I still get my trainer out pretty regularly. It's just fun to be able to relax and know what the plane is going to do. 
Larry

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

I must be missing something. What use is it to learn to fly a trainer inverted when the second or 3rd plane is designed for just that? Can't a trainer just be a trainer?

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Were thinking the same bro. I see no reason to wring out a trainer to do something it's not designed to do. Sorta like in manufacturing, it's a non value added operation.

You fly Scobee?

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

That is quite true... people who believe that they have "Mastered" a trainer, quite often have not.
Even an experienced and able pilot can still learn a thing or two from a seemingly whimpy trainer.

( And YES you CAN "Master" a plane, or anything you want. Mastery is nothing more than a high degree of PROFICIENCY. )

We have a few Giant Scale ( 50%!!! ) flyers at our field, who perform some amazing stunts with their big birds.

One of the guys who flies a 50% Yak, pulled out his old trainer and now brings it out to the field with some regularity.

While we all kidded him about reverting back to a trainer, he commented about how it was more difficult for him to do things on this smaller, less acrobatic plane, which made it a bigger challange for him.

He mentioned that he felt that he had mastered his Yak, but he was still working on his trainer.

RE: Mastering a Trainer?
 

Because you'll have to work at making a trainer fly aerobatics where a more advance plane you won't. It's called gaining experience and building skills, and that is what a trainer excells at.

Nothing personal, but having 4 weeks of solo, able to shoot touch-n-go's and 3 dead stick landing to me ranks as a beginner who just soloed. At this point you need to work on precision in how you fly. Loops that are round, rolls that are more axial, Immelmann's and Split-S's that start/stop on reciprocal headings and level, perfectly level straight and level inverted flight, landings within a 2 meter spot 9 times out of 10, etc.

Most flyers want to move on to a secondary trainer way to fast. Take this time and spend the summer working on the fundamentals - there is plenty of time in the future to fly the higher performance aircraft, and you'll better appreciate them when you do move up from a trainer. I have one student who decided he was ready for more advanced planes and wasn't. So far he's crashed probably close to 30 in the past year, and his landing skills are basically non-existent.

I love taking a trainer and putting it through it paces to the limits of what one can do, and there isn't much a trainer can't do that a more advance aerobatic plane can (excluding 3D).

Hogflyer