Pattern Flying
 

This past weekend I went to a pattern (precision aerobatics) meet in Goshen NY. One of the best pilots in the country competes in my district (D1- north east) and was there, and a friend managed to get his routine on video.

This is the international level "FAI" and this is the harder of their two routines. It starts (after a couple of trim passes and a cuban 8 to get into position) with a rolling loop with 2 rolls, in reversed directions. It ends with two snaps on a down line in opposite directions and I'm amazed at how pretty he makes them and how he ends up perfectly on his line. *Please note: the takeoff procedure is a different pilot with a different plane(glow), but the rolling loops on is the right pilot (electric).

Pattern flying is fun and challenging and adds a nice new dimension to flying - we always have something to practice and it really helps overall flying skills. Many of the best 3D pilots actually started out flying pattern, and many of them still compete. Competition is really friendly and it's really about improving your own skills. I have met some really great people in the pattern scene and am really thankful for learning about the whole thing on this site.

Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-pREmry-SE

(Here's my sorry but competing in the beginner's class for anyone interested...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIDupIvy2o0

RE: Pattern Flying
 

I am trying pattern and its trying my patience ... its hard and its nuts. Even trying to fly straight with simple 1/2 Reversed Cubans for a turn around is a real chore. Its a whole world of its own. Need patience, perseverance, practice practice and practice ... of course a good tutor really helps.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

The only thing I found wrong with the first video is that it was an Astral when it took off, and a Prestige when it landed.

Congrats on second!

RE: Pattern Flying
 

A drum of fuel or two wouldn't hurt either.:D

RE: Pattern Flying
 

A drum or two only? For me maybe a whole 20 foot containers worth of fuel! Anyways, I am all EP! :P

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Man what a smooth flying plane/sequence!

RE: Pattern Flying
 

I flew pattern back in the 70's. I eventually lost interest in the competition aspect, but whether you stick with it or not, it a great way to learn discipline and a great foundation to your skills

RE: Pattern Flying
 

HA! LOL LOL! I wish I could take off a showtime 50 and get back a 40%!!!

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Yeah I don't know how/why the Astral got in there - Dave flies electric.

And yes, he is darn smooth =)

Thanks for the props. I came in second twice this year to the same guy. I'll fly against him two more times, and if I beat him I'm treating myself to a much nicer pattern ship =) Unfortunately my Venus didn't turn into the Pinnacle I've been dreaming about:eek:

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Looking good Joe...

Keep at it...Your rolls are much better than mine already...Hope to see you on the trail....

Larry Diamond
NSRCA 5024

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Go for the Sebart! I think I will get the Wind 110 to replace my Angel 50 (RIP). They seem to be the best value for money at the moment. Unfortunately, its mainly EP. How about treating yourself to a nice Integral? Hehehehe ...

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Did you say you were flying in the same class as Dave Lockhart, FAI, now?

That was quick.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Boy, Joe has come a long way in just a short period of time. Congrats!!!!! CGR, 1 egg basted soft, homemade crumpets, spicy sausage and chock full of nuts coffee. I saved you some.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Im assuming he meant the same district

Wow that KE loop Dave did was awesome, ive never seen one done in a pattern comp

RE: Pattern Flying
 

That's some very nice, graceful and smooth flying.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Congratulations!!

Your dedication and progress, in just a little more than one year of RC flying, is really impressive.

Nice flying![sm=thumbs_up.gif]

RE: Pattern Flying
 

That would be a maneuver for the F09 schedule. They also have some form of a combination of a loop rolls, kinda like a vertical rolling circle. :)

RE: Pattern Flying
 

I wonder how good he is at freestyle? Ive seen some imac stuff and ive never seen rolling loop so precise as in the video...i guess it could have to do with that in imac they are bulkier airplanes such as, extras yak, katanas...etc

RE: Pattern Flying
 

I saw him maiden a glow Sundowner that was sent to him by Horizon to show at some fair...the first thing he did was take off into a rolling circle about 15ft off the deck.

I haven't seen him with the foamies or anything but I heard it's a sight.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

would you happen to know what servos he uses in his ailerons?

RE: Pattern Flying
 

JR 9411
http://nsrca.us/documents/nats/2008_...tion_Sheet.pdf

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Stupid question. Can you fly pattern with a stick? if not I might have to build a more patternly ship and play a bit.. (Anything to make my maneuvers more precise and purpose looking versus "hey that was cool how'd you do it?" "No clue, lets see if i can do it again"

RE: Pattern Flying
 

The maneuver that you are referring to is called a rolling loop with two reversed integrated rolls. It has a K-factor of 5.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Dave is a member of our club. He practices there regularly. I saw him hand launch... a high-wing "trainer" and put it through some maneuvers I didn't even know were "in the books". He's quite an event in his own right!

Then he did one of his horizontal rolling loops followed IMMEDIATELY by a vertical rolling loop.. or was it the other way around.. doesn't matter... quite a show.

CGr.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

If im not mistaken, the Ugly Stick was designed by Phil Kraft in the 60's to compete in pattern.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

You can fly pretty much anything in the beginners ("sportsmans") class. I believe someone was flying a stick in Goshen last weekend.

I competed with my Dolphin at my first meet last summer.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

I videotaped the Pattern event at Goshen which included a [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWjNMx7N5HY&feature=channel_page]first time pattern flyer[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nAY1zaAQek] several of [/link] [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kSmhqarEgo] Joe's [/link] [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIDupIvy2o0] flights, [/link], and Dave's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-pREmry-SE]demonstration[/link]. Joe drove 5 hours to compete, and I drove 5 just to watch the pattern event and admire the flying. I don't know why some people say pattern flying is like watching paint dry. It was just the opposite to me, very exciting to watch the precision and maneuvers. The Knife Edge loop for example is a thing of beauty and awe inspiring when executed to the degree of precision I observed. Shoot, just the perfect circles, and even the perfect straight and level flight impressed me more than watching someone hot dog their airplane into a bouncy looking hover for example. Although, I do ALSO like to watch 3d flying, unlike some purist pattern flyers I know:)

The fact that I turned Dave's Astral into a Prestige was also awe inspiring if you ask me:) Just kidding, a mistake at throwing the tape together. I taped another fella taking off and flying a bit before Dave's flight, which I missed the takeoff on. Ended up being a pretty cool effect though if you ask me :)

Anyway, I have to say Joe has progressed quickly and will no doubt achieve his goal at first place in Sportsman and advance to the next class. I aspire to just get into pattern myself and will eventually enter my first competition this year hopefully. I'm sure I'll make plenty of mistakes and doubt very much if I'll place anything but last, but just the thought of trying is exciting, I'm also sure it will make me a better rc pilot and help me to enjoy the sport even more than I already do.

Congratulations to Joe and can't wait to see him get first place - and soon I expect!

RE: Pattern Flying
 

...look's like I'm dreaming about an Oxai plane again...

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Hmm... That can't be an RDS8000 Joe has in his hands, can it?

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Yes, but maybe if he had a better radio he would have come in 1st instead of 2nd ;) Sorry, couldn't resist:D:D

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Possibly, but his disrespect for the RDS8000 earned a little jolt.

Joe seems to be willing to buy just about anything available to improve his flying skills, so why fly a competition flying sequence with an RDS8000 if there is no respect for the radio? Especially after "making the grade" with that radio?

As I've said before, I flew Sportsman Pattern sequences with a Tiger 60 and an RD6000 (72 MHz). And, I know several "sportsman" category pilots that have succeeded with similar equipment AND moved up to Intermediate with similar equipment. It's not all in the equipment, but in the hands of a capable flyer, success is probable.

I don't doubt Joe's capabilities and willingness to succeed. If he keeps at it, and adds the dedication and practice necessary, I'm sure he will continue to move up.

I've admitted it before and will admit it now. I don't have that drive, that dedication needed for pattern. I tried it, but it just was not my cup of tea. I fly the sequences as I know them, but mainly for relaxation.

Comments made here are public. Everyone that wants to read them are free to do so. So, honesty is a big factor. Talking down the RDS8000 is one thing, but down-grading it after flying a winning event with it is another.

CGr

RE: Pattern Flying
 

All I did was state the limitations of the radio. I wish someone else had done that before I bought it. People are constantly comparing it to the DX7 and the 7C and it just isn't at that level.

The radio obviously isn't "winning" (let's not forget I came in second here) any events for me, and neither is my Venus. Burning fuel, asking questions on the forums and to my coach, and practicing what I learn is what does it. Spending an entire day and a half gallon of fuel doing nothing but 4pt rolls so I can learn how to use rudder in my rolls is what 'wins' pattern meets. I work very hard at what I do, and I know that better equipment won't make me a better pilot. I do know that better equipment will help me achieve certain things I'm looking for in my plane and in my flying.

I also know this is a hobby for people that like 'cool toys'. Most of us don't need most of the technology we have in our setups, but we like it...it makes it fun. Spending a few hundred dollars on a radio because people suggested it to you without telling you it's limitations is not fun - it's actually pretty annoying. Had I gotten a DX7 none of this would be coming up (yet). All I wanted to do in the other thread was help someone avoid the same disappointment I keep getting as I learn about these limitations.

I'm not sure what that bit about public forums and honesty was, but anyone who knows me knows I take a lot of pride in my honesty. I really like this hobby and I really like to help people out and am willing to share everything I've learned over the past year or so.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Nice job flying Joe and with the video's.
I was just in Burlington, VT and Plattsburgh, NY a couple of weeks ago but didn't have time to check out any RC Clubs in the area.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

Thank you! Cappaj1 really does a fantastic job with videos...very impressive;)

Watching Dave leaves me pretty speechless - it seems better and better every time I watch it - there's so much in that routine.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

The ugly stick while designed by Phil Kraft was not designed for pattern,It was designed to be a quick build inexpensive expendable plane to be used to test radios.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

For sportman you can try but one problem will be your rolls ... the Stick is not that axial being a shoulder wing. Another thing, Stall Turns are lousy on sticks. But again, if you are good you stand a chance to look decent for sure.

For me this is the best pattern plane in the size 50 class. She is amazing ... Sebart's Angel S 50.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

As I said earlier. I flew the Goldberg Tiger 60 ARF and wsa able to do all.. ALL of the sportsman category maeuvers just fine. You do not need to spend money on a pattern plane to do pattern, at least in the beginning.

I recently bought a Goldberg Skylark 70 which is also a totally capable aircraft for Sportsman Pattern. If the plane is set up correctly, and is properly powered, and if you really want to do it, you can make many airframes fly the sportsman level maneuvers, and fly them very well. And, you can use just about any radio, although at least a basic computer radio would be desirable.

The most basic, and oddly enough, the most difficult maneuver is a staight line. Just flying right to left or left to right, in a straight line, and making a coordinated turn, without gaining or losing altitude, is probably the hardest thing to do. That maneuver sets up all the other maneuves because if you cannot fly straight and level, you cannot set up and properly do a half-reverse cuban eight, for instance, or do a properly coordinated loop or roll that is on center, and starts and ends level.

You can do this with a "second plane". I was doing these maneuvers with a Goldberg Protege, which is a high wing aerobatic trainer aircraft. And, I might add, doing them correctly. And that was with an Airtronics RD 6000 radio on channel 42.

It can be done without all the hype and with slightly advanced basic equipment. But.. it takes time. Learning pattern is not easy because you have to learn the basics fist, then move up, one maneuver at a time, learning how the plane reacts to each maneuver and fying the plane. Yes, all the nice equipment makes it easier but you still have to fly the plane. Learning on a lesser capable plane teaches discipline and how to set up maneuvers by flynig straight and level. If you can do it wit a lesser capable aircraft, you can do it with more advanced aircraft.

Is the Stick capable? The Protege is, so why not.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

hi CGretired, i have a ys fz110s looking for a home. wanted to get a plane that will do pattern and a bit of beginner 3d. had my eye on the seagull yak 54 ,black and yellow version.i know that would be more 3d than pattern style, but looks too good to avoid!. any suggestions would be appreciated.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

If you are capable of handling that sort of airframe, then by all means, go for it. Many of the 3D airframes will do pattern nicely... up to, probably an into, the intermediate level.

If you want a pure airframe for that engine, the the Venus II is an excellent choice. I've made some minor modifications to mine that make it a bit more precise.

Anyway, in most cases, it's how you set it up that makes the difference between a pattern plane and a 3D plane. With Pattern, you don't want excessive control throws, you want more resolution and less radical movement.

With 3D, you will put in as much throw as the airframe, and you, can handle. So, for the beginner to intermediate level, it comes down to what you fly and how you set it up. Pure pattern will go for the pure pattern airframe setup. But if you have your mind set on that Yak, then, by all means, go for it, but if you want to use it for pattern, build it straight ( careful attention to such things as the squareness of the tail feathers, and the relationship of the horizontal stab to the main wing, then how much throw you actually put in the controls. Then comes the trim and all the work it takes to get it properly in trim for straight level flight plus pure straight for certain maneuvers.

Good luck.

CGr.

RE: Pattern Flying
 

thanks CGr, i do have my heart set on the yak, but i had doubts cause it is more of a 3d airframe. i dont want to do total pattern , its just not me , i would rather do 3d stuff. i had a showtime 90 with the ys in it but i dumb thumbed it one day , only had about 12 flights on that airframe and didnt get a chance to try any 3d with it .i would have got another but now that aircraft cant be got ,looks like they have stopped making it unfortunately. anyway as you said yourself its the way you set it up . thanks again for the info!.