Motor and ESC for TM upgrade
06-30-2004, 10:30 AM
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Motor and ESC for TM upgrade
Greetings Fellowwwwww Flyers,
I am hoping you can help me out. I am relatively new to r/c electric flying. About a month and a half a go a bought a ParkZone J-3 cub and began to learn to fly on my own. It was a bit of a learning curve to say the least. Two concerns basically my learning and the plane being for more intermediate users and second trying to get replacement parts. After some research I was pointed towards a GWS Tiger Moth.
My LHS has a great guy how has encouraged me about flying, and crashing, but the LHS does not really stock a great deal of parts for electric planes and they really don’t know a great deal about electric planes, geared more towards glow. I personally prefer a place where I can walk in and talk with someone face to face especially since I have a great deal of questions. I have found the forums to be a great resource for information and encouragment.
At this point I am flying a stock GWS Tiger Moth. I have a GWS ICS50 ESC 2 amps 4-8 cells, a GWS receiver GWR-4p, a GWS Pico STD Servos, and the default GWS Motor and Prop IPS-DX2BB-AXC. Basically the GWS dream Starter system. I would like to upgrade my motor and my ESC. I plan on only using my plane outdoors at this point. www.balsapr.com has a GWS motor and prop chart but it was a bit much for me. Supposed to help you pick out the right motor/battery/ thrust ratio. But not a great deal of explanation about the different motor types, as in this is more for indoor slow flight verse outdoor and flight time. I am not necessarily looking for more speed but more power. I also have been using the stock GWS 7.2v 150mah battery. On the recommendation of a fellow local flyer who also flies a Tiger Moth I bought a Thunder Power 7.4v 860 mah Li-Poly battery. Flight time somewhere from 15 to 20 min.
I have not charged or used it yet due to wanting to be safe in terms of charging and using the battery. My basic understanding is I need an ESC that can handle the amps and also has a voltage cut off. Again because I am just learning I do not understand a great deal about all the techinal parts of figuring out the amps/voltage and so on.
I have flow the Tiger Moth several times and really enjoy it. Though it flies very different from my piper cub. It’s probably not critical to upgrade the motor but I like the idea of making slight improvements. I looked at the Tiger Moth 400 but as a beginner a 3 channel system seems more than enough for me.
So again I was interested in motor and prop recommendations for my TM as well as a good programmable ESC. Sorry about all the questions but I do value the input of other flyers with similiar experinces or more "advanced" flyers. I am not real clear about the preferred amount of thrust to weight ratio. As in what is too much. The plane flies now even with me at the controls. It is very forgiving which is good as I am learning.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out.
Jim Whitehouse
I am hoping you can help me out. I am relatively new to r/c electric flying. About a month and a half a go a bought a ParkZone J-3 cub and began to learn to fly on my own. It was a bit of a learning curve to say the least. Two concerns basically my learning and the plane being for more intermediate users and second trying to get replacement parts. After some research I was pointed towards a GWS Tiger Moth.
My LHS has a great guy how has encouraged me about flying, and crashing, but the LHS does not really stock a great deal of parts for electric planes and they really don’t know a great deal about electric planes, geared more towards glow. I personally prefer a place where I can walk in and talk with someone face to face especially since I have a great deal of questions. I have found the forums to be a great resource for information and encouragment.
At this point I am flying a stock GWS Tiger Moth. I have a GWS ICS50 ESC 2 amps 4-8 cells, a GWS receiver GWR-4p, a GWS Pico STD Servos, and the default GWS Motor and Prop IPS-DX2BB-AXC. Basically the GWS dream Starter system. I would like to upgrade my motor and my ESC. I plan on only using my plane outdoors at this point. www.balsapr.com has a GWS motor and prop chart but it was a bit much for me. Supposed to help you pick out the right motor/battery/ thrust ratio. But not a great deal of explanation about the different motor types, as in this is more for indoor slow flight verse outdoor and flight time. I am not necessarily looking for more speed but more power. I also have been using the stock GWS 7.2v 150mah battery. On the recommendation of a fellow local flyer who also flies a Tiger Moth I bought a Thunder Power 7.4v 860 mah Li-Poly battery. Flight time somewhere from 15 to 20 min.
I have not charged or used it yet due to wanting to be safe in terms of charging and using the battery. My basic understanding is I need an ESC that can handle the amps and also has a voltage cut off. Again because I am just learning I do not understand a great deal about all the techinal parts of figuring out the amps/voltage and so on.
I have flow the Tiger Moth several times and really enjoy it. Though it flies very different from my piper cub. It’s probably not critical to upgrade the motor but I like the idea of making slight improvements. I looked at the Tiger Moth 400 but as a beginner a 3 channel system seems more than enough for me.
So again I was interested in motor and prop recommendations for my TM as well as a good programmable ESC. Sorry about all the questions but I do value the input of other flyers with similiar experinces or more "advanced" flyers. I am not real clear about the preferred amount of thrust to weight ratio. As in what is too much. The plane flies now even with me at the controls. It is very forgiving which is good as I am learning.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out.
Jim Whitehouse
07-01-2004, 05:49 AM
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RE: Motor and ESC for TM upgrade
Jim,
Without making the step up to a brushless motor and ESC then your probably not going to find a better motor system for the Moth than the GWS IPS DXA that you already have. It really is the best match to that plane (and I guess GWS should know!). The one thing you CAN do to improve performance is the one thing you are already in the process of doing - that is switch to LiPo batteries. If you were to go for an even smaller/lighter pack then you'd trade some reduction in duration (compared top those 860s) for an increase in flying power as the overall weight of the plane would be far less than when you fly it with NiCd/NiMh. Have a look at a 2S pack of Kokam 340 for example.
By the way, if the only thing you change is the batteries then you do NOT need to get a new ESC. The amps that will be pulled from the battery and through the ESC will be exactly the same if you continue to use the same motor, gearbox and prop. And don't worry about needing an ESC that has LiPo battery protection. In reality you'll feel the power sage and want to land long before the LiPo batteries get into "danger territory" (below 3V per cell).
One thing you could do if you REALLY want power is to replace the IPS system and the ESC you have with something like a PJS300 brushless and a Phoenix 10 ESC. I've tried this on a Tiger Moth and it's definitely more powerful but the main advantage is a more efficient motor that will fly for even longer and, of course, never wear out (because there are no carbon brushes to wear).
However the Moth isn't really meant for "power" flying. When you get to the stage of wanting more power so you can fly aerobatics and that kind of stuff then you're probably ready for a brushless+LiPo powered shock-flyer plane anyway!
Cliff
Without making the step up to a brushless motor and ESC then your probably not going to find a better motor system for the Moth than the GWS IPS DXA that you already have. It really is the best match to that plane (and I guess GWS should know!). The one thing you CAN do to improve performance is the one thing you are already in the process of doing - that is switch to LiPo batteries. If you were to go for an even smaller/lighter pack then you'd trade some reduction in duration (compared top those 860s) for an increase in flying power as the overall weight of the plane would be far less than when you fly it with NiCd/NiMh. Have a look at a 2S pack of Kokam 340 for example.
By the way, if the only thing you change is the batteries then you do NOT need to get a new ESC. The amps that will be pulled from the battery and through the ESC will be exactly the same if you continue to use the same motor, gearbox and prop. And don't worry about needing an ESC that has LiPo battery protection. In reality you'll feel the power sage and want to land long before the LiPo batteries get into "danger territory" (below 3V per cell).
One thing you could do if you REALLY want power is to replace the IPS system and the ESC you have with something like a PJS300 brushless and a Phoenix 10 ESC. I've tried this on a Tiger Moth and it's definitely more powerful but the main advantage is a more efficient motor that will fly for even longer and, of course, never wear out (because there are no carbon brushes to wear).
However the Moth isn't really meant for "power" flying. When you get to the stage of wanting more power so you can fly aerobatics and that kind of stuff then you're probably ready for a brushless+LiPo powered shock-flyer plane anyway!
Cliff
07-01-2004, 07:48 AM
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RE: Motor and ESC for TM upgrade
Cliff,
Sounds good to me. Having longer flying time will be a plus. I am enjoying flying the TM. It is really helping to build my confidence for when I fly my Parkzone J-3 cub. But boy there is a big difference between the two. I am going to try and stick with the TM for a while and eventually look into something that is inbetween the TM and my cub though I really dont think my wife wants to see an airport in my play room. But it is definately good to have a few planes with different flying abilities.
Thaks for the input and good flying for you as well.................Jim
Sounds good to me. Having longer flying time will be a plus. I am enjoying flying the TM. It is really helping to build my confidence for when I fly my Parkzone J-3 cub. But boy there is a big difference between the two. I am going to try and stick with the TM for a while and eventually look into something that is inbetween the TM and my cub though I really dont think my wife wants to see an airport in my play room. But it is definately good to have a few planes with different flying abilities.
Thaks for the input and good flying for you as well.................Jim
