Not me. I have access to a couple Illusion's. I think the 425 price is fair. I paid $375.00 + shipping for a P-8 about a year ago. I let one go, Gary Courtney got it, had to get one back, sorry I let that one go. Gary built his, flying BPA with it. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
There is a P-7 on the same auction site right now.
Crank

I agree on $425, not a BAD price considering the extras that came with it. I have a NIB Illusion I would not take $375 for it, if it was for sale, going to build it this winter.

Makes two of us now Ron....



Tim Redelman

Did you get that Illusion Tim! Cool!

hook

Hi All,

I should have the fuse and belly pan sent out this week to Don. I am having to build a box to ship it. Incidentally that is my fuse in the bottom (3) photos in post #16. I do agree that the last 3/4 of the fuse lacks rigidity. I was planning a former of some sort to stiffen it. It would almost be easier if the fuse came in halves to be joined.

I bought mine form Kitty Hawk models many years ago. Not sure what happened to those molds. I think they were kind of a small family run business. I think I still have thier flyer, I will try to scan it later and post. I think I paid $165 for the foam cores, and fuse.

Hi David,

thanks for posting on this. I'll drop you an email later on today or tomorrow at the latest. We have to sort some logistics (and finances first of course).

Based on the last post, I'd say that Don would be better off with Jquid's fuse which he's already working on sending. His fuse is of a more recent vintage, lacking the side and top/bottom glass strips and therefore, lighter. The belly pan is something to keep in mind though. If Don is interested and willing to producing a pair of Illusion pans, then jquid's pan which is flush and lacks the pipe tunnel would be best suited for an electric version of the model or one with a RE engine with pipe running along side the fuse. The pan with the tunnel built into it, would be better suited for a classic Dave Brown setup with the pipe tucked into the fuse.

Don, I don't know what you think of this but it might be worth producing both pans, or, if someone doesn't want the tunnel, they could simply glass over a pan with tunnel in it. What do you think?

For what its worth, I'm glad "my" pan has the tunnel in it. I want to build it per Dave Brown layout.

These later and lighter fuses were even more flexy than the original WK made fuses. I have a Tipo with a fuse just like that and it is quite flexy.

This is something that Don might be able to easily fix when laying them up - either by introducing a former or, better yet, some CF where needed.

David

The flex in parts has more to do with the resins used than anything else.

The higher the HDT of the resin the stiffer the part in most cases, there are also other things that come into play but the resin is the key.

So with my flexi-fuse, do you think I am better off having Don make me one that is stiffer? It is quite flexible. Also the belly pans instructions say to heat the pan with a heat gun to soften the center, and then squish it down for a pipe. I had planned on running my pipe along the side of the fuse, not down the middle. The middle interferes too closely with the front gear and could be a pain. But I have not 100% decided, as I have not yet started cutting the nose. I am using a Rossi .60 with Rossi Pipe, and Macs header.

My concern was the aft part of the fuse flexing. I was going to try some composite honeycomb maybe as a stiffener down the length. I was worried about the tail section twisting around. This is why I thought a split fuse would be easier in adding some bulkheads and stringers inside. I want to keep the weight down, but do not want to have the tail twisting.

I thought a second layer of glass added to the first at a 45 degree angle may stiffen it up? I am looking at the belly pan before I pack that up and it is just a single piece of heavy glass cloth, no double layer or anything, just like the fuse.

thoughts?

Never seeing one of Paul’s fuses up close and only having knowledge of the original Illusion versions, the reference to heating the center section to the point that you can squish a pipe down in it, is kind of telling me it’s the resin that he used has a lot to do with the Flexi-Fuse.

The original belly pans with the pipe molding were intended for the old ED and Macs Bent pipe only, the regular pipe won’t work as intended without some work (cutting out) on the belly pan. With this install the nose gear was shifted from the centerline and ears of the mount are modded for clearance, quite tight but doable. It was actually done that way.

If you were using an RE motor and tilted the motor even further than the SE motor as shown in the plans and without cutting into the fuse side as was done with the SE motor setup you could pass the pipe through the firewall and inner fuse side past an off center firewall mounted retract which is an even cleaner setup.

I would just run your pipe as you stated along the side of the fuse like a regular Tipo setup without an available bent pipe and not having the pipe channel in the belly pan.

Back to the fuse, how can you stiffen it up?

Your reference to running cloth on a bias would be done in a 3 layer layup with it being in the center of the other 2 cloths, adding some rigidity. The end result this being one piece. Adding glass now to the existing sides at 45 would not be any more beneficial as just adding the cloth. Pretty difficult to do to an existing fuse, and will add more weight to the fuse than the results you’re looking for. A lot of that flex your seeing will be eliminated by the time wing hold downs are installed and the wing bolted in and the stab and rudder post is in.

One thing you might consider is a adding a ladder (Hanson Ladder) with 2 or 3 bulkheads in the tail which could also be used to anchor a DEPS system for the elevators, still time consuming and tedious to get it right, but IMO it would give you the best results.

Paul,

I have been working on an original WK (although GP branded) Tipo and it is completely framed up with all the hardwood needed in place as well as the tail wood. It also has a pseudo-ladder ply installation used for the radio tray to mount to but this is in the wing saddle area. This last is indeed rather flexy in the canopy area and tuck line in the absence of this ladder (two supports with 3 "steps" front, mid and rear) even with the wing hold down wood in place. I should also mention that this is one of the "stiff" fuses with the glass strips running lengthwise along the sides and at the seams top and bottom.

The main concern is the section aft of the wing TE as discussed above. I have to agree that using a Hanson ladder as shown in the picture above would be a light and effective solution to the flex issue. It is still a little tedious to install and the ply former would need to be "measured" with a tool prior to being cut.

Don will likely have his own ideas on how to go about the flex and perhaps CF is the easiest and least labor intensive to do in the layup process. For older fuses such as those from WK and GP, the above seems like a pretty good solution. My second Tipo has a fuse of that later "flexy" vintage.

BTW, the picture above looks like the inside of a Tipo fuse - is that the case?

Oh yea, heating the belly pan to mold it to a pipe sounds like more of a crap shoot than going with a regular external pipe setup Tipo style. For this reason, I'd say that if and when Don produces the molds it might be worth considering production of both belly pans or, simply one with the tunnel already in place which can be covered if so desired by the builder.

David.

Hi All,

Just letting you know I finished building a shipping box, took longer than expected. I will ship out to Don tomorrow, and he said a few weeks to get the mold done.

David I think that is a great idea . Do want to send me that Pan with the tunnel in it and I will get it back to you two days after I receive it.

Don

Don,

If it's OK with Doxilia, I will put the belly pan in a box and send it to you tomorrow afternoon. Then if it would be cheaper to send it on to Doxilia when you are done with it rather than sending it back across the country, that would be OK with me since he will be getting the rest of the plane eventually.

David

David, Don,

that's fine with me too.

And David, my apologies for the delay in sorting things out. Where are we at in terms of shipping logistics? Have you been able to find containers for the wings and fuse? Don mentioned that when shipping his kits he actually just makes boxes to fit the item by folding corrugated cardboard as needed - it might be the cheapest and easiest way to go. It might just require a "box in a box" as well as the usual peanuts for proper protection. What do you think?

David.

Hey David,

No apologies necessary. I'll send Don your belly pan on Monday. I'll send you an email on Monday and tell you where I am with regards to getting everything packed.

Don, I just sent you an email. Do you have any shipping preferences?

David

I use USPS, FEDEX & UPS and they are all good. If I use USPS I always insure it to make sure it gets there in one piece. Be sure which ever way you send it that it gives you a tracking number to be safe.

Don,

You should be getting my fuse and belly-pan today. Let me know when you get them and know if they are still in one piece.

Thanks!

Jquid

Yes, I received them today, thanks. They arrived in perfect condition. Great packing job! Is the plan and picture page you sent your originals or are they copies you made for me?

Don

Hi Don,

Have you been able to start the mold yet? I am curious to see how you do it. Can you shoot some pics as you work?

Thanks!

Hi Jeff

Yes I started it. So far I have made it ready to mold and installed it into the parting board/frame. I waxed it and applied the PVA mold release to it. It washes off with water when it comes out of the mold. The wax is removed with a wax and degreaser cleaner. I'll take some pictures for you and post them.

I spray the gel coat and apply the fiberglass cloth next. That takes one day for each half. I should be finished with it this week. I'll keep you posted.

Don

Thanks Don. What material do you use to make the actual mold? How many times can you use that particular mold?

Thanks!

Hi Jeff

I did the first half of the mold today. I use ISO TOOLING RESIN. It is a high heat resistant resin. It is also a very low shrinkage type of resin.. I first spray a Tooling Gel Coat and then fiberglass it with around a dozen layers of cloth. It takes about three gallons of resin to make a mold. So the cost is in the hundreds of dollars. I have made upwards of fifty parts from a mold and it is still fine. I do have to repair areas of a mold from time to time but it is no big deal for me. I've been doing it a long time. It took a lot of trail and error to come up with the techniques to make the various repairs that I do but they are invisible. I will probably do the next half of the mold on Thursday or Friday this week. I took some Pictures for you to see and will post them soon. Thanks again for loaning me this plane. I really love the wide wing root and mid fuse position. I think it will be my next build as soon as I finish the paint and fly my P-8.

Don

Thanks Don,

I have a molding book, and always wanted to try and make a mold myself. The book was of older vintage, and did not give too many pics. I assumed it was quite involved and costly, especially for that size of a fuse.

I hope it turns out well. It will be cool to have "Saved" a kit for future modelers to build. You may or may not know I started the thread about beginning the BPA here a few years back. I wanted to build and have always liked the unique/vintage - but with modern advances. So vintage pattern with modern lighter weight radios, carbon fiber, stronger power-plants etc. all cool to keep the creative and building part of the hobby alive. ARF's are ok, but I always liked to take a box of wood and create something that would fly well, and look great doing it.

Thanks for taking the extra steps to do this, and maybe have a few more Illusions show up at the field.

Jeff

I post the pictures in my "making molds" thread.