There's one on a famous auction site, number 300585354285

Please provide a link or an address to the auction site.
JC

$ 306.00 bid by now and reserve price not met , wowwww [&:] wonder if this guy wants $1000 for the kit

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9569946/tm.htm

Last one went for around $350 and he states that $300 won't cut it. [X(]

I quote:

"The economy is in the crapper, and times are tough, but if you think $300 will win this, that's not enough."

Please, serious bidders only. Thanks.

Maybe I should raise the bidding to $307.

Anybody notice the high bidder’s bid activity? 100% with this seller???? Huh

I ran it up to $350 with my bid. That's it for me. Someone wants it more than I do...

Just looked at it. I must be giving my stuff away.

"Reserve not met" ....ouch

Ummm, isn't frequentflyer producing or going to produce an Illusion? or Just a Tipo? I'd rather have a 'new' kit from him, but I'm not bidding and it's only $$$$$.........

we could all chip in and buy the plane and send it to don. Our overall net expenses would be cheaper that what one would pay for it.

David

I never flew an Illusion; yes it's a midwing, but where did it rate against the Tipo? I enjoyed the one(750) I had years ago.

Another member on RCU is sending me his Illusion kit and I'll have them available two weeks after I receive his kit. For more informaton email me at [email protected]

Cheers
Don

Don,

if that fuse doesn't work out, let me know. I hope to sort out by the end of the summer the purchase of one from David here on the forum. We have just gotten side tracked on the exchange with one thing and another. I'd have him send you the fuse directly to avoid the double or triple shipping. I believe that particular fuse is of the early GP kits. WK Hobbies initially produced the fuses (at least until GP had the molds sorted out and produced them in house) so it has glass strips running down the sides and along the seams - top and bottom of the fuse. They were a little heavier than the latter fuses produced by GP but were sturdier. Difference in weight would result in what I'd say might result in an 8.5 vs 8.0 lb model so it would be up to the "client" when it comes to your production.

Personally I found the Tipo and Illusion fuses a little torsionally weak. When one compared these fuses to something like an Atlanta or a Conquest, they were "flexy". The main reason is due to the fact that there were no formers, other than the FW, in the fuse. Lateral stiffness was had due to tank and radio plates installled which spanned the width of the fuse so forward of the wing TE the fuses were fine. Rearward, rather flexy including the tail area where twisting the stab from side to side from the tips results in the entire fuse twisting up to the wing TE area.

Nowadays, you could do a really cool job, like you already do, by adding CF along the sides and perhaps a couple of pseudo formers by wrapping CF rings around the tail boom. I'm sure you have the best way to achieve stiffness in the back figured out.

Here are some pics of an earlier darker fuse with the glass side strips (first four) and then a later lighter one without them (next three). Note also that GP chose to not produce the pipe tunnel in the belly pan in the later versions - presumably with the idea of locating the pipe alongside it (as in the Tipo) rather than tucked into it using a cranked header that were originally produced by Hatori, Macs and others. According to Paul, the cranked headers can still be sourced these days; I believe in England.

Just some thoughts which primarily stem from my recent push on a Tipo build - getting to the "bondo" finishing stages. I'm stoked!

David.

Makes the GP Tipo I picked upfor wayunder that $355.00 (with an engine, a pipe, eader, mounts, and mech retracts) seem like a real bargain, or a steal! Nice to see that Don is going to keepthe Illusion alive too. Anyone know what the main differences that D.B. put into the illusion versus the Tipo andhow it performed better (if it did so)relative to the Tipo?
Only need one more classic pattern ship to complete my 1980 inventory!
hook

Here are a couple of better pictures sent to me by David of the belly pan and the fuse front showing the reinforcement strips.

Roary was inquiring about where the Illusion stood with respect to the Tipo. Based on the little info I have, the Illusion was a Dave Brown "design". In essence Dave took the Tipo 720 and enlarged the wing root to produce a 750 square wing. Span was the same as the T720 but the extra squares were gained at the root. The stab anhedral was reduced (can't remember exactly how much but probably around 2-2.5" total) consistent with Dick Hanson's idea that the pronounced anhedral on the T720 was partly required due to the underwing slung pipe. In fact, Dick suggests that if a muffler is to be used on the T720, that the stab anhedral should be reduced to ~2" rather than the 4-3/8" of the original piped design.

David (and perhaps Dick as well), no doubt wanted to explore this concept and modified the T720 by changing the anhedral and tucking the pipe "into" the fuse by raising the wing and producing a belly pan in which the pipe would ride. This essentially resulted in a T720 sans pipe front profile since the overall height of the fuse was the same but allowed for the powerful piped setup. The wing was placed such that the thrust line just grazed the top of the wing at its thickest point. This placement with respect to the thrust line was common with other designs of the 80's. Of course, the front profile of the fuse between the two models was similar (the fuse bottom under the wing was better integrated in the Illusion since there was no wing portion there) but the wing location changed altering the flight characteristics. I don't believe the stab incidence (0 degrees) or location was changed with respect to the T720 - it remained the same placed along the "tuck" line (the separation of the fuse and canopy, if you will) of the two designs.

According to Tony F, although he never flew the Illusion, he was of the opinion that Dave Brown did much better with the Tipo 720 (and 750 later perhaps although I'm not sure he flew the 750 competitively) and that the model presented and flew better than the Illusion. Personally, although I like the integrated and sleeker look of the Illusion, the T720 will always remain a great classic and arguably may fly better.

I had a T720 on the bench recently alongside Matt's Saphir I and the Tipo looks like a 40 size model in comparison. The wing is quite small and narrow at 720 squares compared to the early turnaround designs such as the Saphir and the Calypso. Of course, models such as the Dirty Birdy and UFO had fewer squares yet (< 700 sq in)! BTW, the Calypso also looks small compared to the Saphir - it is. I guess the Calypso was being flown with non pumped sport ST S60's while the Saphir was being flown with pumped long stroke inverted Webra's, at the time.

David.

Mark,

hopefully answered in #18 above.

Here's an interesting photo posted several times before. Dave Brown with the T720 (or T750 - hard to say) in the background and a two blade prop and the Illusion in the foreground with a three blade prop. Note the different anhedrals in the stab of each. Also, the Illusion has the engine mounted at 110-120 degrees rather than the 90 degree side mount of the Tipo. This was to put the header down the middle of the fuse just like in Hanno's Calypso. Unfortunately, RE engines are trickier to install in the Illusion than one might expect due to the nose gear and front design. This is unlike models such as the Aurora which also have a belly pan tucked pipe where a RE is preferable.

One other thing that can be noticed from this photo is that the Illusion has less wing dihedral than than the Tipo, again consistent with flatter stabs that don't require the opposing dihedral in order to track properly in knife edge. I forget exactly how much dihedral the Illusion has by design but it is less than the Tipo. It might be a flat top wing in fact. It appears to be or close in this photo.

David.

P.S. Were you able to take some snaps of your Hammer kit and plans? Still interested if you are able to but don't worry of it is a lot of hassle.

David,

Thanks for the Illusion info. I knew the annhedral was less, but didn't know the wing dihedral was too (though it makes sense). I don't recall seeing an Illusion fly, but I've seen the Tipo plenty. I called for a friend flying in Expert at the 1980 Nats in Wilmington. His had an O.S. .60 RE side mounted on it and it flew like it was ontitanium rails! I have the same O.S. engine, NIB, and I may build my Tipo like that too since he still has his. I know the guys messed around a lot with sideand inverted mounting, but until the belly pan style planesgot abundant(like around 82 I think) it was too much work for me so I sideor upright mounted my engines.

I do have the pics of the Hammer 25 for you. It's more me sitting my arss down at the PC and transferring them to it from the camera, my apologies, I will get it done.

Mark

David,

As long as Don doesn't mind the engine hole and the slot for the header that is already cut in the fuse, I would be more than happy to send anything I have to him to help him produce the kit again. Just let me know how you want me to proceed. I know I owe you ALLOT of pictures, but like you, my life's been crazy all summer. Send me an email when things have calmed down on your end and we will pick up where we left off.

David.

I don't mind. Jquid is sending his I think. I really hope the kits that guys are sending all get here in August. This resin and mold making smells very strong and I do them outside. Hope to get a bunch done in this month before it gets cold and wet outdoors.

DOn

Dox,
Thank you for the input. Funny, at the time, everybody was running for the Illusion kits simply because of the midwing; better rolls, or so it was reported. The guys that I knew flying The I's did like them, but it seems the design sortof got lost in the transition from the old pattern to turnaround presumably because there was so much good stuff and then the 61 two stroke vs 1.2 four stroke thing taking shape. I did not know the Calypso was a turnaround design since mine is such a fast flier(OS 61 FSR/pipe).

Just to put a date on the photo I took that at Westover AFB NATS , 1983 Tipo 750 in the back. if I recall correctly.

Well, who is $425 lighter in the wallet???