View Poll Results: A poll
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Winter Build
09-19-2011 | 07:44 PM
#1
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From: Azle,
TX
Winter Build
I have been flying a Kaos I built in SPA, but am ready to build a "Championship" plane. (Almost certain all of those qualify) I thought I had this figured out, but a buddy made an observation at the last contest I was at, and now I am uncertain yet again. This will be powered by an OS 61 abc on a pre tuned Nelson muffler. I am going to be flying in expert next season, and want the best airframe for that engine to perform the sequence. Please post reason for choice as well.
09-20-2011 | 06:11 AM
#2
RE: Winter Build
Atlas. It's an interesting bird, I would like to see a good representation of that design in the air.
Tough choice, though. That's a list of fine aircraft.
-Robert
Tough choice, though. That's a list of fine aircraft.
-Robert
09-20-2011 | 06:55 AM
#3
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Winter Build
Well,
my vote goes to the Compensator if for no other reason that we haven't seen one built on the forum as far as I know. My next vote would go to the Atlas, also because few recent builds of this model have been seen or discussed on the forum. These criteria evidently have little to do with "advantages for SPA"...
As far as ease of building and overall flying qualities, while perhaps not the coolest of the set (no anhedrals or side mounted engines), I'd build a Deception any day. I also like the "mid-draft" position of the wing on this design. Engine maintenance and installation in a Deception is also very straight forward, especially with a 2 stroke OS 61 SF (I'm assuming it's an SF since you mention it's an ABC engine but perhaps it predates the SF?).
Unfortunately none of these models look good as tail draggers so although being flown in SPA, I'd build them with trike gear. In my humble opinion, the design that would look the best with legs extended is the Atlas .
David.
my vote goes to the Compensator if for no other reason that we haven't seen one built on the forum as far as I know. My next vote would go to the Atlas, also because few recent builds of this model have been seen or discussed on the forum. These criteria evidently have little to do with "advantages for SPA"...
As far as ease of building and overall flying qualities, while perhaps not the coolest of the set (no anhedrals or side mounted engines), I'd build a Deception any day. I also like the "mid-draft" position of the wing on this design. Engine maintenance and installation in a Deception is also very straight forward, especially with a 2 stroke OS 61 SF (I'm assuming it's an SF since you mention it's an ABC engine but perhaps it predates the SF?).
Unfortunately none of these models look good as tail draggers so although being flown in SPA, I'd build them with trike gear. In my humble opinion, the design that would look the best with legs extended is the Atlas .
David.
09-20-2011 | 10:58 AM
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From: Foxfire Village,
NC
RE: Winter Build
Having completed my Deception (love it...), and having participated in my first SPA contest (Ashville, NC), and having tried to pick the brains of every other SPA member there, and having observed closely the Expert flyers, I don't know what to tell you.
That said, I was most impressed and surprised by a couple of Daddy Rabbits. Lots of people think the Atlas is a great airplane, I'm biased toward the Deception. My advice... pick whatever you like best, build it straight and light, work on flight trimming for a hundred or so flights, and it won't matter which you picked.
ChiefK
That said, I was most impressed and surprised by a couple of Daddy Rabbits. Lots of people think the Atlas is a great airplane, I'm biased toward the Deception. My advice... pick whatever you like best, build it straight and light, work on flight trimming for a hundred or so flights, and it won't matter which you picked.
ChiefK
09-20-2011 | 12:34 PM
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From: Engomi Nicosia, CYPRUS
RE: Winter Build
After Hanno Prettner won the '77 World Championship with it, the Curare captured everyone's imagination with its aggressive looks, the funky F-4 Phantom-like anhedral tailplane, and with being the first "super-equipped" championship winner (fuel pump, tuned pipe, flaps and spoilers, even a mixture servo, when retracts were the only "complication" most other designs of the era adopted).
It seems to me that most people tend to forget that Wolfgang Matt not only came second to Prettner in '77 with the Atlas, but that he beat Prettner and a full-house Curare two years earlier, winning the World Championship in 1975 with an Atlas that only had the usual four-way controls plus retracts. It also only had a standard silencer, and dead simple suction feed for the fuel system - no pump, not even exhaust pressure. Matt didn't think he needed any of all that to win, and it turned out he was right!
The Atlas and its successor the Arrow also had the widest wingspan of all the championship winners up to 1981 at least. Matt's designs were forerunners of the later generation of planes with wider wingspans and more constant speeds.
Don't get me wrong, the first pattern ship I ever flew in the 1980's was a Curare and I loved it. I have a very soft spot for it. Ideally I'd like to build one some time. But I'm glad to see the Atlas leading the vote.
I hope to build one (or two) myself soon, and am very happy Don has made glass epoxy fuselages available.
And I have to agree, we haven't seen an Atlas build thread recently...
It seems to me that most people tend to forget that Wolfgang Matt not only came second to Prettner in '77 with the Atlas, but that he beat Prettner and a full-house Curare two years earlier, winning the World Championship in 1975 with an Atlas that only had the usual four-way controls plus retracts. It also only had a standard silencer, and dead simple suction feed for the fuel system - no pump, not even exhaust pressure. Matt didn't think he needed any of all that to win, and it turned out he was right!
The Atlas and its successor the Arrow also had the widest wingspan of all the championship winners up to 1981 at least. Matt's designs were forerunners of the later generation of planes with wider wingspans and more constant speeds.
Don't get me wrong, the first pattern ship I ever flew in the 1980's was a Curare and I loved it. I have a very soft spot for it. Ideally I'd like to build one some time. But I'm glad to see the Atlas leading the vote.
I hope to build one (or two) myself soon, and am very happy Don has made glass epoxy fuselages available.
And I have to agree, we haven't seen an Atlas build thread recently...
09-20-2011 | 02:28 PM
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From: Azle,
TX
RE: Winter Build
Wow! This is great feedback, and I am truly surprised. I fully expected the Curare to be in the lead, and am glad it is not. I have never thought it was an attractive plane, but it does make since that it should be attractive as a "tool" for competition. I want to choose something other than it, and even already have the Eureka Compensator, but just can't help but feel that it might be the best choice. I am a pretty good pilot, but who couldn't use a plane that makes it just a bit easier. It is my guess that Hanno or Wolfgang might have had the same results even if they swapped planes.
09-20-2011 | 05:16 PM
#11
RE: Winter Build
I'm glad to hear that you have a Compensator, I think it's a great airframe that doesn't get the credit it deserves. IIRC, in the construction article, Rhett Miller gives a lot of credit to Jim Kirkland on the design. I voted for the Compensator. Go for it!
FB
FB
09-20-2011 | 07:25 PM
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From: Azle,
TX
RE: Winter Build
ORIGINAL: doxilia
Well,
my vote goes to the Compensator if for no other reason that we haven't seen one built on the forum as far as I know. My next vote would go to the Atlas, also because few recent builds of this model have been seen or discussed on the forum. These criteria evidently have little to do with ''advantages for SPA''...
As far as ease of building and overall flying qualities, while perhaps not the coolest of the set (no anhedrals or side mounted engines), I'd build a Deception any day. I also like the ''mid-draft'' position of the wing on this design. Engine maintenance and installation in a Deception is also very straight forward, especially with a 2 stroke OS 61 SF (I'm assuming it's an SF since you mention it's an ABC engine but perhaps it predates the SF?).
Unfortunately none of these models look good as tail draggers so although being flown in SPA, I'd build them with trike gear. In my humble opinion, the design that would look the best with legs extended is the Atlas .
David.
Well,
my vote goes to the Compensator if for no other reason that we haven't seen one built on the forum as far as I know. My next vote would go to the Atlas, also because few recent builds of this model have been seen or discussed on the forum. These criteria evidently have little to do with ''advantages for SPA''...
As far as ease of building and overall flying qualities, while perhaps not the coolest of the set (no anhedrals or side mounted engines), I'd build a Deception any day. I also like the ''mid-draft'' position of the wing on this design. Engine maintenance and installation in a Deception is also very straight forward, especially with a 2 stroke OS 61 SF (I'm assuming it's an SF since you mention it's an ABC engine but perhaps it predates the SF?).
Unfortunately none of these models look good as tail draggers so although being flown in SPA, I'd build them with trike gear. In my humble opinion, the design that would look the best with legs extended is the Atlas .
David.
Thank you for your input. The first plane on this list that I was going to build was the Deception, have printed plans and discussed getting the cores and glass canopy from Scott. When the Compensator was given to me I just though, what the heck, I'll build this. It looks good too. Now, as time is so precious, I really need to choose the best plane for the contest. I like to win!
Yep, it is an SF and pumped. It has not been run, and I have no experience with these pumped. I hope to put the tank on the cg, but will get the engine running on a stand before I commit to that.
Fortunately, although I love taildraggers, I believe a classic pattern plane should be true to the original and think the trike gear looks better on them. (Aeromaster is at least one obvious exception
)
09-20-2011 | 07:35 PM
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From: Azle,
TX
RE: Winter Build
ORIGINAL: ChiefK
Having completed my Deception (love it...), and having participated in my first SPA contest (Ashville, NC), and having tried to pick the brains of every other SPA member there, and having observed closely the Expert flyers, I don't know what to tell you.
That said, I was most impressed and surprised by a couple of Daddy Rabbits. Lots of people think the Atlas is a great airplane, I'm biased toward the Deception. My advice... pick whatever you like best, build it straight and light, work on flight trimming for a hundred or so flights, and it won't matter which you picked.
ChiefK
Having completed my Deception (love it...), and having participated in my first SPA contest (Ashville, NC), and having tried to pick the brains of every other SPA member there, and having observed closely the Expert flyers, I don't know what to tell you.
That said, I was most impressed and surprised by a couple of Daddy Rabbits. Lots of people think the Atlas is a great airplane, I'm biased toward the Deception. My advice... pick whatever you like best, build it straight and light, work on flight trimming for a hundred or so flights, and it won't matter which you picked.
ChiefK
That is one fine looking plane! Like I was saying a couple post ago, I had my heart set on the Deception... Thank you for sharing.
I'm having trouble determining "whatever I like best" lol, they all look good. Heck, even the Curare is growing on me!
09-20-2011 | 07:40 PM
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From: Azle,
TX
RE: Winter Build
ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes
Will you be happy flying a Curare when you'd rather be flying a Compensator??
There may be more pleasure flying a Compensator for you. You would probably do better as well...
Just some psychotic thinking for ya'....
Brian
Will you be happy flying a Curare when you'd rather be flying a Compensator??
There may be more pleasure flying a Compensator for you. You would probably do better as well...
Just some psychotic thinking for ya'....
Brian
That is a good point, except I don't have my heart set on any one plane. I built my "Classic Pattern" "Dream Plane" in '07, and even though it looks really nice, the design is from 1969 iirc. You have all seen it, but I'll share it again
BTW, I did pull a 1st place finish in Sportsman with it at the Fort Worth SPA contest Saturday!!!
09-20-2011 | 08:46 PM
#16
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Winter Build
Blake,
Nice looking Kaos!
Is that paint on the fuse or is it all Monokote (I take it the wing is MK judging by the light kick off it)?
Looks like an older gold head FSR up front too. Nice engines.
Congrats on your win!
David.
P.S. While you appear to have equal building skills to your pilot skills, I'd recommend going for a foam core wing and stab design. I'm not sure if the compensator kit you have has such surfaces. If you want an easy fuse to build, go with Don's (Frequent Flyer handle) glass fuse Atlas
It does not have an integral fin but he can probably provide you with a fin/rudder core as well as the wing/stab cores. A wood Deception fuse probably goes together as quickly as the prep work required get a glass fuse setup for engine and radio. But then, if you like paint, the glass fuse will prep faster than the wood fuse. Just some other thoughts...
Nice looking Kaos!
Is that paint on the fuse or is it all Monokote (I take it the wing is MK judging by the light kick off it)?
Looks like an older gold head FSR up front too. Nice engines.
Congrats on your win!
David.
P.S. While you appear to have equal building skills to your pilot skills, I'd recommend going for a foam core wing and stab design. I'm not sure if the compensator kit you have has such surfaces. If you want an easy fuse to build, go with Don's (Frequent Flyer handle) glass fuse Atlas
It does not have an integral fin but he can probably provide you with a fin/rudder core as well as the wing/stab cores. A wood Deception fuse probably goes together as quickly as the prep work required get a glass fuse setup for engine and radio. But then, if you like paint, the glass fuse will prep faster than the wood fuse. Just some other thoughts...
09-20-2011 | 09:58 PM
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From: Broken Arrow,
OK
RE: Winter Build
Blake,
The good news is, you have some hellagood thumbs and you are going to be very competitive in the expert class, and would be with your Kaos. I got to watch up close and personal this weekend (Blake and I called for each other), and you've got the goods as a pilot first and foremost.
I do believe that the best pilots are the best, and would agree with the comment that it is possible that both Hanno and Wolfgang would have been great if the planes were swapped. I also believe that these pilots and designers didn't do stuff by accident. Kirkland, Prettner, Lowe, Matt, Bridi, were very much trying to design planes not to fly good, but to fly great, world championship great. That's why I as I have thought in terms of planes I wanted to compete in SPA with I have looked at the Champions, both National and World.
I have flown a Compensator, a Curare, and an Atlas on the list you have. I know I told you that for me, I have never had my hands on anything like the Curare. It should be noted here that my love affair with that plane dates back some 30 years or more, and it got my vote on your poll. I was super impressed with my dad's Atlas, I just didn't get a chance to fly it much before it's untimely demise. I would say your top two vote getters would be my two choices. I really liked the Compensator with the two stroke, but wasn't as sure with the four stroke. Just my opinion, but it seemed to like the 2 stroke better to me, which means it should remain a real option for you.
A friend of mine from the Gluedobbers, Bill Cunningham, had a great deal of success with a Deception, I remember watching him practice, it was so captivating. So, your back to what a lot of folks have said here, you have a great list of airplanes to choose from. And I will say again, you are a very talented pilot that will likely make any of these planes work extremely well. I look forward to flying with you and against you, all of us will have to step up our game!
So, to wrap up this eternal post, lol, go with your gut, bro. If you've picked up anything your list is full of top notch airplanes, so trust that thing inside you that points you to a plane., build it straight, as light as you can, and burn a ton of fuel practicing. My dad has been extremely successful in building really light airplanes, his Atlas was right at 6 1/2 pounds, as was my Curare. Any thoughts you might want on building light, he would have some great input. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks.
Lindy<br type="_moz" />
The good news is, you have some hellagood thumbs and you are going to be very competitive in the expert class, and would be with your Kaos. I got to watch up close and personal this weekend (Blake and I called for each other), and you've got the goods as a pilot first and foremost.
I do believe that the best pilots are the best, and would agree with the comment that it is possible that both Hanno and Wolfgang would have been great if the planes were swapped. I also believe that these pilots and designers didn't do stuff by accident. Kirkland, Prettner, Lowe, Matt, Bridi, were very much trying to design planes not to fly good, but to fly great, world championship great. That's why I as I have thought in terms of planes I wanted to compete in SPA with I have looked at the Champions, both National and World.
I have flown a Compensator, a Curare, and an Atlas on the list you have. I know I told you that for me, I have never had my hands on anything like the Curare. It should be noted here that my love affair with that plane dates back some 30 years or more, and it got my vote on your poll. I was super impressed with my dad's Atlas, I just didn't get a chance to fly it much before it's untimely demise. I would say your top two vote getters would be my two choices. I really liked the Compensator with the two stroke, but wasn't as sure with the four stroke. Just my opinion, but it seemed to like the 2 stroke better to me, which means it should remain a real option for you.
A friend of mine from the Gluedobbers, Bill Cunningham, had a great deal of success with a Deception, I remember watching him practice, it was so captivating. So, your back to what a lot of folks have said here, you have a great list of airplanes to choose from. And I will say again, you are a very talented pilot that will likely make any of these planes work extremely well. I look forward to flying with you and against you, all of us will have to step up our game!
So, to wrap up this eternal post, lol, go with your gut, bro. If you've picked up anything your list is full of top notch airplanes, so trust that thing inside you that points you to a plane., build it straight, as light as you can, and burn a ton of fuel practicing. My dad has been extremely successful in building really light airplanes, his Atlas was right at 6 1/2 pounds, as was my Curare. Any thoughts you might want on building light, he would have some great input. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks.
Lindy<br type="_moz" />
09-21-2011 | 01:02 AM
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From: Foxfire Village,
NC
RE: Winter Build
Blake,
My Deception was built using Scott's cores and canopy. Excellent stuff! You probably noticed that I made mine a taildragger. Just have to be more careful landing to avoid the "bouncies".
ChiefK
My Deception was built using Scott's cores and canopy. Excellent stuff! You probably noticed that I made mine a taildragger. Just have to be more careful landing to avoid the "bouncies".
ChiefK
09-21-2011 | 01:48 AM
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From: Engomi Nicosia, CYPRUS
RE: Winter Build
ORIGINAL: LS171Malibu
Who is Don? You have a link?
ORIGINAL: AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken
Don now has kits of the Atlas based on the Southern RC model.
Don now has kits of the Atlas based on the Southern RC model.
09-21-2011 | 06:15 AM
#20
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From: Azle,
TX
RE: Winter Build
ORIGINAL: lindyq
Blake,
The good news is, you have some hellagood thumbs and you are going to be very competitive in the expert class, and would be with your Kaos. I got to watch up close and personal this weekend (Blake and I called for each other), and you've got the goods as a pilot first and foremost.
I do believe that the best pilots are the best, and would agree with the comment that it is possible that both Hanno and Wolfgang would have been great if the planes were swapped. I also believe that these pilots and designers didn't do stuff by accident. Kirkland, Prettner, Lowe, Matt, Bridi, were very much trying to design planes not to fly good, but to fly great, world championship great. That's why I as I have thought in terms of planes I wanted to compete in SPA with I have looked at the Champions, both National and World.
I have flown a Compensator, a Curare, and an Atlas on the list you have. I know I told you that for me, I have never had my hands on anything like the Curare. It should be noted here that my love affair with that plane dates back some 30 years or more, and it got my vote on your poll. I was super impressed with my dad's Atlas, I just didn't get a chance to fly it much before it's untimely demise. I would say your top two vote getters would be my two choices. I really liked the Compensator with the two stroke, but wasn't as sure with the four stroke. Just my opinion, but it seemed to like the 2 stroke better to me, which means it should remain a real option for you.
A friend of mine from the Gluedobbers, Bill Cunningham, had a great deal of success with a Deception, I remember watching him practice, it was so captivating. So, your back to what a lot of folks have said here, you have a great list of airplanes to choose from. And I will say again, you are a very talented pilot that will likely make any of these planes work extremely well. I look forward to flying with you and against you, all of us will have to step up our game!
So, to wrap up this eternal post, lol, go with your gut, bro. If you've picked up anything your list is full of top notch airplanes, so trust that thing inside you that points you to a plane., build it straight, as light as you can, and burn a ton of fuel practicing. My dad has been extremely successful in building really light airplanes, his Atlas was right at 6 1/2 pounds, as was my Curare. Any thoughts you might want on building light, he would have some great input. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks.
Lindy<br type=''_moz'' />
Blake,
The good news is, you have some hellagood thumbs and you are going to be very competitive in the expert class, and would be with your Kaos. I got to watch up close and personal this weekend (Blake and I called for each other), and you've got the goods as a pilot first and foremost.
I do believe that the best pilots are the best, and would agree with the comment that it is possible that both Hanno and Wolfgang would have been great if the planes were swapped. I also believe that these pilots and designers didn't do stuff by accident. Kirkland, Prettner, Lowe, Matt, Bridi, were very much trying to design planes not to fly good, but to fly great, world championship great. That's why I as I have thought in terms of planes I wanted to compete in SPA with I have looked at the Champions, both National and World.
I have flown a Compensator, a Curare, and an Atlas on the list you have. I know I told you that for me, I have never had my hands on anything like the Curare. It should be noted here that my love affair with that plane dates back some 30 years or more, and it got my vote on your poll. I was super impressed with my dad's Atlas, I just didn't get a chance to fly it much before it's untimely demise. I would say your top two vote getters would be my two choices. I really liked the Compensator with the two stroke, but wasn't as sure with the four stroke. Just my opinion, but it seemed to like the 2 stroke better to me, which means it should remain a real option for you.
A friend of mine from the Gluedobbers, Bill Cunningham, had a great deal of success with a Deception, I remember watching him practice, it was so captivating. So, your back to what a lot of folks have said here, you have a great list of airplanes to choose from. And I will say again, you are a very talented pilot that will likely make any of these planes work extremely well. I look forward to flying with you and against you, all of us will have to step up our game!
So, to wrap up this eternal post, lol, go with your gut, bro. If you've picked up anything your list is full of top notch airplanes, so trust that thing inside you that points you to a plane., build it straight, as light as you can, and burn a ton of fuel practicing. My dad has been extremely successful in building really light airplanes, his Atlas was right at 6 1/2 pounds, as was my Curare. Any thoughts you might want on building light, he would have some great input. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks.
Lindy<br type=''_moz'' />
Lindy,
Thank you for all the kind complements. Flying with you Saturday really shined a different light on this competition. Your comment on the way you approached choosing a plane is what ultimately lead to this poll, and now I truly believe that any of the planes listed will be a good choice. I will just have to do some soul searching, and figure out which one I like the best. Looking forward to the TxWings contest, see you there!
09-21-2011 | 07:45 AM
#21
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From: Azle,
TX
RE: Winter Build
ORIGINAL: doxilia
Blake,
Nice looking Kaos!
Is that paint on the fuse or is it all Monokote (I take it the wing is MK judging by the light kick off it)?
Looks like an older gold head FSR up front too. Nice engines.
Congrats on your win!
David.
P.S. While you appear to have equal building skills to your pilot skills, I'd recommend going for a foam core wing and stab design. I'm not sure if the compensator kit you have has such surfaces. If you want an easy fuse to build, go with Don's (Frequent Flyer handle) glass fuse Atlas It does not have an integral fin but he can probably provide you with a fin/rudder core as well as the wing/stab cores. A wood Deception fuse probably goes together as quickly as the prep work required get a glass fuse setup for engine and radio. But then, if you like paint, the glass fuse will prep faster than the wood fuse. Just some other thoughts...
Blake,
Nice looking Kaos!
Is that paint on the fuse or is it all Monokote (I take it the wing is MK judging by the light kick off it)?
Looks like an older gold head FSR up front too. Nice engines.
Congrats on your win!
David.
P.S. While you appear to have equal building skills to your pilot skills, I'd recommend going for a foam core wing and stab design. I'm not sure if the compensator kit you have has such surfaces. If you want an easy fuse to build, go with Don's (Frequent Flyer handle) glass fuse Atlas
It does not have an integral fin but he can probably provide you with a fin/rudder core as well as the wing/stab cores. A wood Deception fuse probably goes together as quickly as the prep work required get a glass fuse setup for engine and radio. But then, if you like paint, the glass fuse will prep faster than the wood fuse. Just some other thoughts...
Thank you for the nice complements. I wish I had the skills to paint, but at least I do know my way around a MK iron. It is all MK. The engine is now a SF with a Nelson pipe. I just could not get the FSR to run right...
The Compensator is the foam wing and tail variety. I have not built a foam wing in 20 years (prefer built up) but plan for this next build to be foam. I will have to lean on the forum for help there. I have a nice foam cutter that I want to use to honey comb the cores, just need to learn how the pattern is achieved.
