bcfhigdon

My Feedback: (5)

Trying to make up my mind on what engine to power a Phoenix 8 with. Looks like for a new engine it would be a Jett or Rossi. Looking for any feedback on the Rossi engine on how it runs, tuning etc. Thanks Clint

energyman

My Feedback: (2)

I currently fly two of the currentRossi .60 long stroke engines, 240R60. The current inventory of Rossi engines can be found at http://shop.vendio.com/rossienginesusa/category/1/. The 240R60 is not currently listed but you might check with the importer.During our recent conversation he told me he had one in stock. The alternate is the short stroke Rossi 35R60 which is available with or without a number of exhaust systems. I currently fly my Rossi's with the Jett Stream 60-90 tuned muffler with excellent results. I fly one on a World Models Intruder and the other on a sport plane. They have excellent power. However, I would offer this caveat; order the engine with the 8.5mm carburetor. Mine were shipped with the 10mm carburetor. They have idle/transition issues that so far Rossi has not solved. I do however have one 10mm carburetor that works fine. The 8.5mm carburetor also works well. Tuning is not difficult with the 8.5mm carburetor. I initially run my new engines on a test stand with FAI fuel with extra castor oil.

The short stroke engine is offered with two Jett Stream mufflers, one is the 45 and the other is the 60-90, with the 45 being used for higher rpm and the 60-90 for lower rpm.In my opinion Rossi'sare excellent engines that are very robust. The new ones have a 3 year warranty. The spec weight of the 35R60 is 20.4 oz without muffler. The 240R60 is slightly heavier.

I used either Omega or Powermaster 5% fuel in the Rossi's.

Ihave a Sport Jett 50 purchased used. It has the AAC piston and liner set. It is set up for high rpm, turning an APC 10x6 at 16,700 RPM with Powermaster 15% fuel. I do not know if it will turn the 10x7 or 10x8 effectively with the Jett Stream muffler. It weighs 11 ounces without muffler. The specs can be found at http://www.jettengineering.com/engines/sj40-new.html

I recall my Dad flying a P-8 back in the 80's and I believe had a heavier engine such as a Rossi or HP gold cup. Good luck with your choice.

Danny Jackson

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Dub isn't making any more big case .60s, if I correctly understood my conversation with him. If this is correct, you may be locked into the Rossi anyway (not really a bad thing, IMO).

I have an SJ .60 (.61?) that I am installing in a H9 P7. With the Jett muffler, the total weight is about 26 oz. but it turns an APC 11x7 at 13,500 easily.
One of my friends has an SJ .60 on a Compensator-like SPA model and his is plenty fast on an APC 12x6, but I don't know the rpm.

The Rossi .60 with the VP mods should be in the SJ 60 performance range, and would be OK without the VP mods. My old Rossi 65 turns an APC 10x8 at 14000 open face, don't remember the numbers for the 11x7.

Jim

energyman

My Feedback: (2)

Following are tach readings for the 240R60 long stroke and APC 11x7, 5% Omega, with the 8mm and 10mm carbs. This engine does not have the VP mods. It weighs 28 oz with the Jett Stream 60-90 muffler. Have you tried an engine with the VP mods?

Danny

R_G

My Feedback: (1)

What are the "VP mods"?

RG

energyman

My Feedback: (2)

They are explained here. http://shop.vendio.com/rossienginesu...165/index.html

R_G

My Feedback: (1)

OK, Thanks Danny!

RG

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I run a .45 VP and a piped .61FIRE in Scale warbird racing, both with the 10MM carbs. The VP mod is a little port work and a shot peened crank. Both engines are powerhouses with manners. I will admit that the 10MM carb has it's quirks but after I learned how it wanted to be adjusted both engines run like silk. Two things can happen, the carb richens up at full throttle so you really need to set the needle at full. At first I thought the engine was going lean. The second is that if the low speed needle is set too lean it will have problems transitioning but will idle just fine. Looking into the bottom of the carb with it in the full open position the low needle should be covering about 60% of the opening in the spray bar. The only other things I have done to mine is add a .5mm head shim, run 15% fuel and an Enya #3 plug. Took me a while to get them set up well but well worth the effort. The .45 spins a 9.5X7 APC Pylon and motivates that airplane to about 130 MPH. The .61 spins a 10X10 and motivates it's airplane to about 150 MPH but sadly is still getting beaten by the YS 115's.

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Rossi .61 vs. YS 1.15?? Not even in the same league....
A Rossi 90 would be a closer match, but the 1.15 will still have an advantage.

Jim

Dave Harmon

Clint.....the Rossi side exhaust may be too big physically to fit in the P8.
These engines are really robust and bulletproof but larger than the intended engine for that airplane.
I have a 206R61 that I special ordered from SG for a project that I need to finish.
I cant wait to run it. Hopefully it will be as strong as the short strokes I used in the 80's....probably won't though because I think this engine is a long stroke.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I hear ya. I know I have delt myself a handicap here but attempting to bridge the gap some through aerodynamics. While I doubt that I will ever be able to out pull the YS guys, we have a breakout time of 1:25 for 10 laps. Right now my best time is 1:39 and change. Being that I have the long stroke engine I am going to try different pipe lengths and maybe some port work in an attempt to get a 11X10 or 11X11 in the power band.

lfinney

My Feedback: (44)

the Rossi 61 RE or SE will fit just fine in either the P7 or The P8, they use the same bolt pattern as the OS 60/61 cases, using anything less that a 11x10 or the like is a waste on the long-stroke versions, i use 11x10 on the shortstroke versions as well with the macs quite pipe set long, i own both the hangar nine p7 and have it fitted for the rossi's, and i have 2 P8's as well, plenty of room there as well..

the VP mod actually knife edges the leading edge of the crank counterweight and also puts a relief cut on the edge of the crank-bore to unmask it when the con rod moves across its face...standard fare on car and boat motors.

with head shims there is no reason not to use 30-50 nitro in the rossi's a colder plug and head shims will wake them up with 30-50 nitro, they are every bit as strong as a YS if loaded with same nitro content.

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Helped a friend set up his new Rossi FISE .45 with 10mm carb this morning. APC 10x7, 10% Cool Power.

The only problem I see is that the high speed needle needs to be way out to be able to get the idle lean enough to have a nice clean transition.

Is there a "fix" for this? I have considered shortening the tip of the H.S. needle to allow/require it to be a turn or two further in for the correct H.S. mixture. Does this make sense?

Thanks,
Jim

Dave Harmon

Hi Jim

I had the same problem.....there are 3 fixes I know of....install a Perry pump...this works really great.....or get the smaller carb from SG....or a Perry carb.
I've done it all 3 ways but of course the engine will breath better with the Perry and big carb.
The big carb just does not have enough suction to be able to be adjusted properly....this is nothing new and I had this very problem in the 80's with several Rossi engines.
All were fixed using all 3 above methods.
I reccommend the smaller carb.

Webra had the same problem...they would ship 60 Speed RE engines with a huge slide carb i/d and no pump. A slick fix for that was to get a Webra 40 size slide carb and stand back...they really screamed....and idled....and transitioned.

lfinney

My Feedback: (44)

if you are careful you can actually move the needle in the brass to move the needle out a bit


the flat slide webra carbs had next to no fuel draw and weren't meant to be used without a pump.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Jim, sounds like you have the idle too lean and the high too rich. I was setting mine up the same way at first too. Remove the carb and with the barrel full open, adjust the low needle so it occupies 60% of the slot in the spray bar. Set the high speed to 3 turns and give it a try. Fire her up and set the high speed first then low. Keep the low as rich as you can to get a reliable idle. If it will not transition out of idle, it is because it is too lean on the low needle even though it will sound as if it is loading up. Would be interested in knowing what muffler you have as that can influence too.


If you just don't want to deal with that I have a 8mm carb that I would be more then willing to swap you for that 10mm. PM me if that interests you.

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

I have a Webra FIRE ABC longstroke in my Escape that I have installed a Perry pump and Perry pump carb; it works fine. but I would prefer to not have to use the extra "stuff".

I had wondered if the needle could be "slipped" in the brass body of the older NVs. The newer NVs are machined in one piece, taking away that option. Hence, my thought about shortening the tip a bit. I don't mind that it must be opened several turns, but it ain't good if it falls out!!

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

The idle is set pretty lean, but I still get an rpm rise when I pinch the fuel line at idle. The transition is like flipping a switch; idle to full power in an instant! I could probably open the idle needle 1/2 turn and still be OK-I'll try that and see.


This set up is on a friends model, and I offered to trade him a smaller Rossi carb for the 10 mm (I think I would like the 10mm on my .65).

Thanks for the offer, but I like the boost from the big bore carb for my use. My friend doesn't need the 10mm carb on the .45 so I will probably swap him out of it.

Jim

energyman

My Feedback: (2)

I have owned 5 new 10mm carbs. One was on a 40, two on 60 LS's, and two were purchased separately. None of the 5 workedcorrectly exhibiting the symptions metioned here. Isent the Rossi 40 back to Italy and they replaced the carb with an 8mm carb, which works fine. The 8mm carbsas far as I know have not been a probem. They sent replacement carb bodies for the remaining 4-10mm carbs. One works fine, the others are the same. Rossi acknowledged the probem and sent me three replacement carbs. The problem is is still there in the replacements.

Ihave discussed this and exchanged e-mails with the importer (SG)and he has been very cooperataive and helpful. He has been communicating with Rossi, sending them my e-mails and pictures.

Following are some of the findings:

1. In the initial run of carbs and replacement carb bodies, the spray bar notch is not consistantly located in the spray bar, resulting in the tip of theidle needlebeing locatedat different locations in the spray bar notch when fully closed (carb body fully open, idle needle fully closed).
2. Iwas sent new idle needles, which were the same size and lengthas the originals.This did not help.
3. Ihaveattempted rounding the end of the idle needle with mixed results.
4. Various idle needles work correctly in the one10mm carb that works properly.
5.Possiblities as to the source of theproblem (my opinions)are; 1, The spray bar notchis in the wronglocation; 2, The inside diameter of the spray bar is too large, not blocking enough fuel at idle/mid range; 3,The taper of the idle needle needs to be changed.

To clarify the symptoms, the idle/mid range is rich up to and evenwhen the idle needleis bottomed out in the clockwise position. This affects the high speed needle by closing off the spray bar notch to the point where the high speed needle can be backed out all the way and the engine is still lean. When backing the idle needle out a small amount, there is a small window where you can get a clean idle transition with an adjustable high speed needle, but the idle time needs to be no longer than a few seconds, or the engine will load up.

I have copies of e-mails from Rossi to SG regarding plans to send new (longer) idle needles. They plan to test prior to shipping. If anyone is interested, I will post results when I receive the new parts. Ican also post pictures of the different spray bar notch locations if interested.

Jim, the idle needles cannot be backed out for removal. To remove the idle needle, the throttle arm must be removed and the idle needle turned clockwise to remove. So they cannot back out on their own.

SpeedRacer, I tried your technique, but have the same idle/mid range problems. The engine spits fuel out the carb when it loads up. Pinching the fuel line cleans it up.

Has anyone documented the improvements of theVP modifications? Thanks.

Danny

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Danny,
Thanks for the details, hope Rossi gets it sorted out.

A new H.S. NV from Sahak is only $10.00; I may try re-configuring the tip of one of mine just so that I will have enough threads holding it in after getting the idle and H.S. needles set.

Some of my older 8mm (may be 8.5mm, not sure) carbs have different H.S. needles than the new carbs.

Roary m

My Feedback: (67)

Were the black head versions the short stroke? I remember the advert years ago selling it as the 3+2 version; until recently, I never ran Rossi engines.

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Maybe the older blackheads were shortstrokes. Recently, Rossi has had different colored heads; don't know if there is a "color code".

Present line-up from Rossi USA:

http://shop.vendio.com/RossiEnginesUSA/category/1/

Jim

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

The 3+2 version is the one pictured above and is the same as what I have if I'm not mistaken. The blackhead .61 I had was a two peice case design and only had 3 intake ports. The 3+2 also seems to have a longer stroke.

Danny, I was not familiar with any of the 10mm carb issues. I'm at a loss as to why I have not experienced anything more then thinking the carb was a little tougher to set up then others. I'm wondering if the exhaust is the key? On my .45 I am using an ultra thrust and on the .61 it's a Mac's muffled pipe and a 5" header. I'm thinking the header is too short and have a new one I am going to try at full length in an effort to get it to swing more prop. I've had so much success with the 10MM that I will leaver an open offer to anyone who would like to trade one for an 8MM.

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

I wonder if the pressure tap on the muffler could be opened up a bit to supply more pressure to the tank and help feed the 10mm carb???

Jim

Dave Harmon

Regardless of head color, the long strokes can be identified by the rather large gap in between the top of the case and the bottom of the head.
See post #10.