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Scale pattern plane?

Old 09-11-2012, 05:39 AM
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acdii
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Default Scale pattern plane?

Is there a kit out there of a scale plane that does patterns? Does the Chipmunk fall into this catagory? Now that I have the 4*120, I'm getting more into flying patterns, and tighter control. I have been doing touch and goes, and have the control down to where I can top the corn and set the mains on the numbers. I have been trying to get the hang of 4 point and 8 point rolls both in level and vertical, but the 4* is just too big, and/or under powered to maintain the vertical to complete the moves.

I've been considering planes like the Bridi kits, Killer Chaos, Dirty Birdy, etc. but would also like something scale. My flying skills have advanced enough that I want more of a challenge now in control, and not just fling the plane around the sky. Of course dogfighting is a blast, but picking up the pieces after a mishap, not so much fun. Had 2 close calls last time out, so need something else. I have 2 motors to choose from, a Magnum 52 FS and a Magnum 91 FS. So a plane that would fit either motor is ideal.
Old 09-11-2012, 06:08 AM
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matt13
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

I bought a set of plans from RCMP some years ago of a scale mustang that was designed to fly in F3a back in the seventies, it is called " Miss Kat Brat"from memory. It is still on my wish list for a build, but maybe electric rather than the 60.
Old 09-11-2012, 08:08 AM
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KrisG
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

MK Chipmunk, MK Zlin, MK Laser, MK Akromaster ... those were designed for 120 size 4-strokes in their day and should fly well with a modern 91 four stroke

You can have a look at them here : http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_96...tm.htm#9636215

Kris
Old 09-11-2012, 08:49 AM
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4u2nv-RCU
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

World Models made( may still make) an arf of the Goldberg Chippy. Goldberg had an Extra that was also a great flyer but you would have to build that one! Chippy is a great flying plane but has a bit of dihedral. The Extra, not so much dihedral but I am sure it wouldnt be classic pattern legal whereas the Chippy might. Would do all of the pattern maeuvers well. Would have to ask the people in the know about it being an approved design for SPA but you might not care so much about that as flight charachteristics.
Old 09-11-2012, 10:18 AM
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Nieuport nut
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

P-47 Thunderbolt or A6M Zero - if you want to go "heavy metal". Both these fly patterns pretty well for scale airplanes.

Martin
Old 09-11-2012, 12:03 PM
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KLXMASTER14
 
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Hawker Tempest Mk. II, predecessor to the Hawker (Sea) Fury. Excellent moments and force arrangements. If you have ever seen a Sea Fury fly, you will know what I am talking about.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:52 PM
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acdii
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Would not have thought of a warbird as a scale pattern plane, but after reading the different types of pattern, I guess it fits.  I don't want an ARF, I have a 4*120 ARF and would much rather have built it from a kit after seeing how it was put together. Granted, it is well made, but I would have used different glue instead of hot melt. The covering keeps coming loose too, so going to have to recover it this winter. 

What I want is a plane that looks like a real plane, but can fly the patterns well. The Chipmunk looks like a good prospect. 


Magnum 91 FS is a good match for it too. 

Now that I think about it. my friends brother had entered a pattern contest just for kicks with a Zero and won. He didn't have time to stick around, only a little time to fly, got it up, did the pattern and landed and had the best time out of all of them.  Really ticked off the regulars too.

Open to all suggestions on planes.  One plane that is on my list is a Bridi, either the Dirty Birdy or the Killer Chaos. Neither are a scale plane, so hence my posting.     Something tells me that my 1/7th scale TF P-51 will not make a good pattern plane. 
Old 09-11-2012, 01:07 PM
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burtona
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Dick Hanson designed a couple of pattern planes with scale appearance a few years ago. One was a Slim Ziln (I had one, crashed on maiden flight due to builder error (me) with a detachable stab that detached in mid air) and later an Excess that looked like an Extra 300 (I had one of these too and flew it a long time). If you could find one of these it should suit your needs and both were very capable pattern planes too.
Dave
Old 09-11-2012, 01:35 PM
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bigedmustafa
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

One of the guys in our club used to fly pattern with a Giles 202. I'd expect most of the Giles, Staudacher, or Extra scale models would flying pattern pretty well.
Old 09-11-2012, 03:13 PM
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turbo.gst
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

While it is not scale, I always liked Ted White's El Gringo design. The plans are available at RCM :

http://www.rcmplans.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1266
Old 09-11-2012, 03:20 PM
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ChiefK
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

The TF P-51 is probably not a good choice for a pattern airplane, but Jim Kirkland flew a design he called a Mustang X in expert pattern (back in the classic years). He flew it with a ST .46, but I think it would be fantastic with an OS .55AX. I think Eureka has a short kit available. One of these days, I'm gonna build one.

ChiefK
Old 09-11-2012, 03:40 PM
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matt13
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Her is the link to the Miss Kat Brat, a Mustang for Pattern!

http://www.rcmplans.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1496
Old 09-11-2012, 04:01 PM
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Rendegade
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

I always questioned the validity of the MKB to do a decent pattern, cosidering it has such a sharp leading edge! I guess for me it goes down into the category of f3a rocks.

"This rock will do the P-13 better than anything!"

I've seen a few rocks in my time.
Old 09-11-2012, 06:01 PM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Not really scale but a Kaos wing has a lot of P-51 look. Add the leading edge wheel fairings, water radiator, canopy and deck, maybe shape the tail some. Mine in a hard bank always reminded me of one. I would do a B but a D would be just as easy. The hangar 9 planes fly pretty good. They are about 2-4 pounds lighter than a true scale plane.
Old 09-11-2012, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

In what class of pattern would these "scale" pattern planes fall into ? classic pattern, senior pattern or F3A?


Old 09-11-2012, 08:52 PM
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Rendegade
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Well, don't forget that TOC has been scale-ish since the 80's.

Most of them were flying pattern-style maneuvres.
Old 09-12-2012, 12:44 AM
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matt13
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

I think that the Miss Kat Brat would pass as a classic pattern due to the year that it flew, but as there were probably only one or two at any contests it could not be considered a classic.
It would certainly fly better than scale, as it had a "Kaos" style wing section, but would not fly as good as a Kaos due to the shorter moments, I like it as it would be a cool "Sports model" that could fly accurate maneuvers that would impress.
Old 09-12-2012, 04:26 AM
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Rendegade
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

I don't recall Joe Bridi designing the Kaos with sharp leading edges like the MKB had.

Wait, just checked, nope, and just checked it's predecessor, the sun-fli, and that's another no.

The control line stunt guys figured out a long time ago that the shape of a leading edge can make or break an aircraft, and sharpness is a big boo-boo.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a pattern-stang, I just think there's better planes out there for pattern, and there's better airfoils out there than that sharp nastyness the MKB has.
Old 09-12-2012, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Hanno Pretners Dalotel comes to mine.  There is a very large 110" wingspan ARF availble for the Dalotel, but Hanno's was more like 70 or 72" wingspan.
Old 09-12-2012, 07:34 AM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?


ORIGINAL: Nieuport nut

P-47 Thunderbolt or A6M Zero - if you want to go ''heavy metal''. Both these fly patterns pretty well for scale airplanes.

Martin
Old 09-12-2012, 08:08 AM
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JeffH
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Actually the 1/7 TF Mustang does fly pattern manuevers very well, however, the take off and landings on grass will net you low scores very quickly!!
I have the ARF version with a YS 120 and it will do slow and point rolls almost like a pattern plane. Nice LARGE round loops, but it takes some rudder work to keep your heading true.
In thick grass there is zero hope of landing without nosing over. I have shimmed the gear, moved the CG back etc etc with little positive effect.
Old 09-12-2012, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

And the very old Dave Platt Spitfire MK IX was actually a pattern plane made to look like a spitfire. It did the pattern quite well.
Old 09-12-2012, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

If I recall correctly the Giles 202 wingspan to length ratio is very close to the typical classic pattern plane of 1:1.  It is the main one I have looked at for doing the same thing you are.
Old 09-12-2012, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

I have found the German TA 152 H to fly very smoothly.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: Scale pattern plane?

Dick Hanson models produced the Zlin, which would fly great with your engine, is scale, and relatively easy to build. He also produced several Dalotels in different sizes, which are scale as well. The Excess mentioned earlier was designed around the 1.20 4-stroke, although several have been flown on 2-strokes with great success. I have since taken over making these great pattern planes from Dick, as they are some of my favorite planes to fly, and if you would like to email me privately, I can give you much more info on them.

Rich Lee
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