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Phoenix 8 Restoration

Old 04-14-2014, 06:13 PM
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hsukaria
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Default Phoenix 8 Restoration

I just picked up an old Phoenix 8 classic pattern plane from a local guy. This is my first pattern plane. It looks quite old and looks like somebody was restoring it already by painting most of it with glossy white primer. I need to go completely over it and re-finish the whole thing.

I plan on putting my Fox 74 with a Jett tuned muffler. I intend to put electric retracts also. My concern, however, is that the airframe feels very heavy. I don't know if all those coats of paint and primer are the culprit.

My questions are:
1. Is it worth it to sand/strip the old paint off to reduce weight?
2. I don't have any instructions for setup for this plane. Is there a manual available for this to help me set up the CofG and the control surfaces ranges?

Thanks,

I will try to post pictures in the next few days, but the plane is not in good shape.
Old 04-15-2014, 04:24 AM
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rcguy!
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The lighter, the better! Nothing else to say.....
Old 04-15-2014, 06:42 AM
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Welcome to Classic Pattern! Here is a PDF of the plans and instructions. This forum is a gold mine of folks with the knowledge to help you get your bird back in the air right.[ATTACH]1987231[/IMG][ATTACH]1987232[/IMG]

-Robert
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Phoenix-8-Plan.pdf (3.27 MB, 184 views)
File Type: pdf
Phoenix-8-Instructions-1.pdf (18.5 KB, 146 views)
Old 04-15-2014, 06:51 AM
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hsukaria
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Originally Posted by KLXMASTER14 View Post
Welcome to Classic Pattern! Here is a PDF of the plans and instructions. This forum is a gold mine of folks with the knowledge to help you get your bird back in the air right.[ATTACH]1987231[/IMG][ATTACH]1987232[/IMG]

-Robert
Thanks Robert. Any info would be helpful. I am basically an ARF guy with some kit rebuilding experience. But totally new to pattern.
Old 04-16-2014, 02:27 AM
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Grab some Citristrip and start cleaning. I've stripped more than one old plane with citristrip. Awesome stuff.
Old 04-16-2014, 04:30 AM
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hsukaria
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Originally Posted by dhal22 View Post
Grab some Citristrip and start cleaning. I've stripped more than one old plane with citristrip. Awesome stuff.
So that works for any type of paint and primer? I am not sure what it was painted with. But it has a good bit of it sprayed with new primer on top of the old paint. A big mess.

I will try the Citristip, thanks. I may have some in the basement,
Old 04-16-2014, 11:19 AM
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hook57
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
So that works for any type of paint and primer? I am not sure what it was painted with. But it has a good bit of it sprayed with new primer on top of the old paint. A big mess.

I will try the Citristip, thanks. I may have some in the basement,
What David said on stripping. If you lay wax paper over the citri strip, it will keep the solvents working longer as it inhibits evaporation, just keep an eye on it. Use a plastic scraper and scrape away after it softens and wrinkles up. I picked up a P-8 a few months ago too, needs refininshing but overall good shape and aligned very nicely.
Mark
Old 04-16-2014, 01:06 PM
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Any paint as far as I've experienced. Including a few old planes myself.
Old 04-16-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hook57 View Post
What David said on stripping. If you lay wax paper over the citri strip, it will keep the solvents working longer as it inhibits evaporation, just keep an eye on it. Use a plastic scraper and scrape away after it softens and wrinkles up. I picked up a P-8 a few months ago too, needs refininshing but overall good shape and aligned very nicely.
Mark
Hi Mark, thanks for the info. Do you think a Fox74 with a Jett tuned muffler is enough power? Is there a way to find out where the CG should be and also the flight control surface travel? Thanks.
Old 04-16-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dhal22 View Post
Any paint as far as I've experienced. Including a few old planes myself.
Thanks David.
Old 04-16-2014, 01:10 PM
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I think it is time I invested in a paint sprayer. So far it's been heat shrink covering and spray can paint.
Old 04-16-2014, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
Hi Mark, thanks for the info. Do you think a Fox74 with a Jett tuned muffler is enough power? Is there a way to find out where the CG should be and also the flight control surface travel? Thanks.
The CG is shown on the plans. Here they are again in case you missed them the first time. Set your alierons up for 8-12 degrees low/high rate, elevator about the same and lots of rudder (till it almost touches the elevator halves). That should get you into the ball park. Remember, this is not a 3D airplane, a common mistake is to use WAY too much control throw. Think smooth and graceful.

-Robert
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Phoenix-8-Instructions-1.pdf (18.5 KB, 62 views)
File Type: pdf
Phoenix-8-Plan.pdf (3.27 MB, 73 views)
Old 04-16-2014, 02:35 PM
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With all due respect, I think that a fine aircraft such as your P-8 deserves a better engine than a Fox .74. There are many good choices available, I recommend that you look at the O.S. .65 AX. That would be a premier choice.

-Robert
Old 04-16-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KLXMASTER14 View Post
The CG is shown on the plans. Here they are again in case you missed them the first time. Set your alierons up for 8-12 degrees low/high rate, elevator about the same and lots of rudder (till it almost touches the elevator halves). That should get you into the ball park. Remember, this is not a 3D airplane, a common mistake is to use WAY too much control throw. Think smooth and graceful.

-Robert
Thanks Robert, that's what I was looking for. I didn't get any documentation since I bought this plane from another guy who bought it at an estate sale.
Old 04-16-2014, 04:17 PM
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I dont think the plans went through the first time Robert as I didn't see it either. Hsukaria, regarding the Fox .74. I have no experience at all with Fox engines; I've used and still use Rossi, O.S., Kraft, Super Tigre, etc. However, I agree 100% with Robert, the O.S .65AX is a great choice for the plane. Even at 8 - 8 1/4 lbs I think it will pull it just fine for you. Mine was set up for fixed gear, haven't decided whether I'll leave it or cut into for the retracts.
Mark

Duh! Disregard Robert, I see it was linked to the text in your post!
Old 04-16-2014, 04:26 PM
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I had a P-8 back in the late 80's early 90's and flew it with an OS 61 FSR and a Mac's tuned pipe, at the time I was living in WY (6,000' alt) and power was never in question. Great plane, stable and smooth, just do not get to slow on landing.
Old 04-16-2014, 08:24 PM
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About the electric gear... Several of us classic pattern enthusiast's have discovered that electric nose gear don't do well bolted right behind one of these fire breathing 2 stroke pattern engines. We've had routine nose gear failures, specifically the Eflite electrics but I'm sure other brands are not immune to these vibrations. Don't ask me how I know.
Eric
Old 04-17-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hook57 View Post
I dont think the plans went through the first time Robert as I didn't see it either. Hsukaria, regarding the Fox .74. I have no experience at all with Fox engines; I've used and still use Rossi, O.S., Kraft, Super Tigre, etc. However, I agree 100% with Robert, the O.S .65AX is a great choice for the plane. Even at 8 - 8 1/4 lbs I think it will pull it just fine for you. Mine was set up for fixed gear, haven't decided whether I'll leave it or cut into for the retracts.
Mark

Duh! Disregard Robert, I see it was linked to the text in your post!
I mentioned the Fox 74 because I have one sitting around looking for a plane. But, based on my experience with my OS 55AX, I can tell the OS 65AX will be great.
Old 04-17-2014, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by edh13 View Post
About the electric gear... Several of us classic pattern enthusiast's have discovered that electric nose gear don't do well bolted right behind one of these fire breathing 2 stroke pattern engines. We've had routine nose gear failures, specifically the Eflite electrics but I'm sure other brands are not immune to these vibrations. Don't ask me how I know.
Eric
Thanks for reminding me about the electric nosegear retracts. I had read that in these forums, but forgot. Does it make sense to use electric on the mains and mechanical on the nosegear?
Old 04-17-2014, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
Thanks for reminding me about the electric nosegear retracts. I had read that in these forums, but forgot. Does it make sense to use electric on the mains and mechanical on the nosegear?
I think that it is a viable option. One thing that will help with the longevity of the retracts (and the rest of the airframe and equipment) is using a soft engine mount. You can read about it here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2100044&page=2

-Robert

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