Notices
Classic RC Pattern Flying Discuss here all pre 1996 RC Pattern Flying in this forum.

Help, Prettner's Supra Fly

Old 05-03-2014, 05:15 AM
  #1  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default Help, Prettner's Supra Fly

Hi evrey body
I recently found a plan which seems to be a good duplication of Hanno's Supra Star called "Dupli Star"
I read the plan carefully and found that there is just a little part of the rudder surface under the thrust line and most of its area is off centered
I'm thinking of modifying the plan to have more rudder area under the thrust line in order to have more axial slow rolls and knife edges
is this a good idea to add a ventral fin or widening the fuse side area as shown in the image below? or the original profile is ok?



Regards,
Ehsan
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	4640
Size:	92.4 KB
ID:	1992103  
Old 05-03-2014, 05:45 AM
  #2  
JRgraham
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Im no aeronautics engineer, but I cant see how that subtle change would hurt anything, and I agree, would help like you explained. Makes me want to build one too!
Old 05-04-2014, 03:22 PM
  #3  
Rendegade
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Personally I wouldn't. I would hazard a guess and say you'd need more rudder to sustain KE as your centre of pressure will move back, as your area does.

Also, the dupli star isn't a supra fly, did you want to do a supra fly or a supra star?
Old 05-05-2014, 12:33 AM
  #4  
Elation1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Doncaster, AZ, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The Dupli Star plan was drawn from taking measurements from the EZ Supra Star model. I did judge the pilot who drew the plan up at a comp and, because of the way he had finished the model, it was in-distinguishable from the original kit model.
Old 05-05-2014, 04:15 AM
  #5  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Thanks guys
these are supra fly image and plan link:

http://outerzone.co.uk/download_this_plan.asp?ID=4967



and these are supra star and probabely a good copy of its plan named dupli star:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/clas...rawings-2.html (post number 40)



Ehsan
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Bild_SupraFly60.jpg
Views:	3145
Size:	84.1 KB
ID:	1992636   Click image for larger version

Name:	EZ_SupraStar60.jpg
Views:	4598
Size:	234.8 KB
ID:	1992637  
Old 05-05-2014, 06:53 AM
  #6  
JRgraham
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Rendegade View Post
Personally I wouldn't. I would hazard a guess and say you'd need more rudder to sustain KE as your centre of pressure will move back, as your area does.

Also, the dupli star isn't a supra fly, did you want to do a supra fly or a supra star?
He said he was going to add more rudder area.. not reduce it.. if I read that right
Old 05-05-2014, 07:01 AM
  #7  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Ehsan,

there are a couple of good threads on RCU of guys who scratch built Supra Fly's - one, the 60 size and the other, Hanno's show 2500 (~2m) version. Both used foam core surfaces and decks like shown in the Dupli Star plans you have.

The Supra Star was a variation of the Supra Fly which had slightly different moments and fuse heights (e.g., canopy shape and position) as well as other details such as wing/stab tip design. The cowl shape also changed and lost the "cheeks" reverting back to a Calypso, and eventually Mystic, style cowl.

I suppose the Supra Star can be thought of as Hanno's first turn-around design. In fact, he first competed with a 120 4s version, came in third if memory serves and went back to a 60 2s smaller model for the next WC where he jumped back into his customary first place. The Dupli Star plan should be a pretty good rendition of this latter model.

Some day I hope to be able to duplicate Hanno's 60 size Mystic powered with an OS Hanno Special. This was his last WC competition entry in 1993.

I look forward to your build!

David

Last edited by doxilia; 05-05-2014 at 07:03 AM.
Old 05-05-2014, 07:35 AM
  #8  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Hi David,
Thanks, I'm searching on the web to collect true and complete info about these 4 models which they all belong to almost a same era
1) mystic
2) supra fly
3) joker ( as you know it's not Prettner's design and belongs to W. Matt)
4) supra star
mystic plan seems to be very rare , i couldn't trace it on the web instead of a low res 3-view
supra fly 25 plan is available at outerzone.co.uk
joker 25 could be found there too
but the supra star, i personally like its profile and think its building project would be much easier than the 3 others
infact i was aiming to do a complete thread after my incomplete tiny curare
And my first candidate was mystic but because the lack of enough data i prefered to have a brief look on supra star
if i start its project it'll be a 50 size bird
and about tiny curare
its progress stoped because i just work on my birds when i have a mind full of interest, a strong stimulator that forces me to do what should be done, and now i guess any trying to complete that project will result in a low quality bird and thread because of the lost interest
Some day it will be finished the way it must be

Regards,
Ehsan
Old 05-05-2014, 07:54 AM
  #9  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Ehsan,

information on Hanno's Mystic 60 and 120 is very scarce. The models were never commercially released as builders kits in these sizes (the 120 was released as an ARF) so there aren't plans out there to be had. Barring contact with Hanno himself, recreating the Mystic 60 is a rather difficult task. Greg in Australia (Rendegade on the forums) and I have discussed this project and tried to come up with proper lines and moments based on photos but it is tricky.

As for the SS50 what engine and weight do you have in mind?

David

Last edited by doxilia; 05-05-2014 at 07:57 AM.
Old 05-05-2014, 07:58 AM
  #10  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Rendegade,
You are right Supra Fly in the topic must be changed to Supra Star

Regards,
ehsan

Last edited by ehsanmorshedi; 05-05-2014 at 08:17 AM.
Old 05-05-2014, 08:09 AM
  #11  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by doxilia View Post
Ehsan,

information on Hanno's Mystic 60 and 120 is very scarce. The models were never commercially released as builders kits in these sizes (the 120 was released as an ARF) so there aren't plans out there to be had. Barring contact with Hanno himself, recreating the Mystic 60 is a rather difficult task. Greg in Australia (Rendegade on the forums) and I have discussed this project and tried to come up with proper lines and moments based on photos but it is tricky.

As for the SS50 what engine and weight do you have in mind?

David
Ok so Mystic is really mystic
I'm thinking of a 145 cm (56.6 in) span SS powered with a rear exhaust MVVS .49
weight around 2400 gr (5.3 lbs)

Ehsan
Old 05-05-2014, 01:22 PM
  #12  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ehsanmorshedi View Post
Ok so Mystic is really mystic
I'm thinking of a 145 cm (56.6 in) span SS powered with a rear exhaust MVVS .49
weight around 2400 gr (5.3 lbs)

Ehsan
Ehsan,

you mean like the pictures attached!?

Yes! That model would definitely fly... ;-)

I sent you an email with some further thoughts.

David

PS if you intend to continue with this topic, I would suggest that you start a thread on RCG. We've unfortunately had a number of problems with reliability here for a number of years. You will probably also have better viewership over there.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 1.JPG
Views:	267
Size:	532.8 KB
ID:	1992770   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 2.JPG
Views:	244
Size:	505.5 KB
ID:	1992771   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 3.JPG
Views:	178
Size:	484.7 KB
ID:	1992772   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 5.JPG
Views:	207
Size:	472.6 KB
ID:	1992773  
Old 05-06-2014, 07:08 AM
  #13  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by doxilia View Post
In fact, he first competed with a 120 4s version, came in third if memory serves and went back to a 60 2s smaller model for the next WC where he jumped back into his customary first place. The Dupli Star plan should be a pretty good rendition of this latter model.

David
It looks like memory didn't serve...

Hanno's 1987 Supra Star was equipped with a prototype OS 61 RF Hanno Special - basically the engine that eventually became the HS but it didn't have the red head. Hanno took first during all of the 1980's - Magic (81, Mexico), Calypso (83, USA), Supra Fly (85, Holland), Supra Star (87, France), Supra Star (89, USA). Then, in 1989, the era of turn-around began and the engine spec was lifted from 10 cc 2s max to 20 cc (120) 4s. So for the 1991 WC (Australia) Hanno entered a Mystic 120 with an OS engine where he placed 4th (I believe he had engine troubles). For 1993 (Austria), flying steps away from his home town, he reverted back to the 2s Hanno Special and his last WC design - the Mystic 60.

Yes, I think that's how it goes.

A picture of Hanno's Supra Star BGX show model.

David
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	suprastar.JPG
Views:	573
Size:	41.6 KB
ID:	1992979  

Last edited by doxilia; 05-06-2014 at 07:11 AM.
Old 05-06-2014, 10:51 AM
  #14  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by doxilia View Post
Ehsan,

you mean like the pictures attached!?

Yes! That model would definitely fly... ;-)

I sent you an email with some further thoughts.

David

PS if you intend to continue with this topic, I would suggest that you start a thread on RCG. We've unfortunately had a number of problems with reliability here for a number of years. You will probably also have better viewership over there.

Right, This is my mvvs .49
beautiful colors...


Ehsan
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	P1300082.JPG
Views:	2060
Size:	67.8 KB
ID:	1993033   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1300081.JPG
Views:	2120
Size:	79.1 KB
ID:	1993034  
Old 05-06-2014, 04:18 PM
  #15  
flywilly
My Feedback: (121)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: glen allen, VA,
Posts: 2,229
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 21 Posts
Default

Hi David,
your history isn't too bad, but a few corrections for the sake of accuracy. The first FAI turnaround WC was in 1985. Hanno flew an ST 61K in 1987 and used the prototype Hanno special in 1989. The first notable appearance of a 4-stroke 120 was in 1987 when Naruke introduced his Silent design powered with the first version of the YS 120 4stroke. The OS 120SP (supercharged) that Hanno used in 1991 was notoriously cantankerous and had a nasty habit of violently backfiring especially if it was just a tiny bit too lean. The WC wasn't won with the clearly more powerful 4-stroke until 1995. I believe (ok, too lazy to check) the YS 4-strokes have won every WC since (mostly due to CPLR's regular appearance in the winner's circle).
Old 05-06-2014, 06:37 PM
  #16  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Will,

thanks for clearing things up.

What engine did Hanno use in the Mystic 90 that he seems to appear with in a few show photos? I'm not certain this is the same model scale as the EZ Mystic 90. I'm trying to follow the EZ engine spec but it strikes me as a little odd. Why would they release a Mystic in the same scale as Hanno's 60 2s version and then designate it as a 90 4s? I suppose the M120 was a touch larger so it might make sense to call it a 90...

Or maybe 4strokes were just all the rage in the early 90's...?

David
Old 05-07-2014, 09:58 AM
  #17  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

David,
I searched the web with almost no success
I couldn't figure out what engine Hanno used on MY 90
even I think he never used a 90 2s because of the competition rules of those days ( if i'm wrong please correct me)
In my search results I only gained the same info that every body knows
It seems that MY 90 refers to 90 4s that could be replaced with a 60 2s engine and maybe it's because 4s engines were getting more popular those days.

Regards,
Ehsan
Old 05-07-2014, 10:28 AM
  #18  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Ehsan,

The Mystic 90 is a bit of a puzzle but you are right, 90 2-strokes were not being used in those days - at least not for competition in F3A. The issue is that during the 90's, the four strokes began to be more popular and although we know that Hanno didn't use a 90 2-stroke or a 90 4-stroke in competiton, this model appears in his hands in a few photos I've seen. My feeling is that that model was really a Mystic 60 but it was designated as a Mystic 90 by the manufacturer, EZ, to encourage the sale of equivalent 4-strokes. Even the Mystic 30 was released with some reference to it being a "50 size" model suggesting the use of a 48-53 size 4-stroke. In fact, even the earlier Supra Fly 25 and Supra Star 25 models were advertised in this fashion.

The main thing I would like to clear up is the number of scales that the Mystic existed as. We know it existed as a 60 size model as well as a 120 size model but what's not clear to me is what the Mystic 90 is. Either a Mystic 60 advertised for 4-stroke power or a slightly larger model than the Mystic that Hanno flew with the OS 61 RF HS in Austria. I suspect, the 90 is just a marketing thing and it is actually the same size as the Mystic 60 that Hanno flew.

I believe I actually have some further info on this from a fellow modeller in England who has (had) an EZ Mystic 90 ARF kit. What I can't remember is the scale of the model. I'll have to see if I can dig that info up as, in retrospect, it is golden info! He kindly took the time to measure things out for me so I might, after all, be able to re-create some semblance of Hanno's Austrian WC model.

Regarding the Supra Star, I'll get back to your email as soon as I can.

David
Old 05-07-2014, 01:21 PM
  #19  
flywilly
My Feedback: (121)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: glen allen, VA,
Posts: 2,229
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 21 Posts
Default

The elusive Mystic 90 was discussed here (RCU) more than once. The '90' version, like most other '90' sized pattern ships of that era were really sized for a good 2-stroke 45. The 90 4-stroke referred to was any 4-S engine not built by YS. The original YS 91AC put out almost as much power as the original YS 120 and wayyyy more than any other 90 4-stroke available at the time (or since). It's a shame that none of Prettner's designs after the Magic were ever published as plans or kitted in an all wood format (MK). I guess EZ was the 'highest bidder' and wanted exclusivity. Then their factory burned down... I bet Don Carlson at RCAIIR could produce a nice glass/foam kit from an original EZ kit. Anybody have a Mystic 60 or 120 they could send him?
Old 05-07-2014, 07:37 PM
  #20  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Will,

That's now ringing a bell. I was going to mention the 45 2s but wasn't sure and thought I'd just add to the confusion.

So there we have it, post Calypso, EZ put out 2-3 scales of each of Hanno's designs. Using proper notation ;-), they came in 25 (50), 45 (90), and 60 (120) size.

David
Old 05-08-2014, 07:42 AM
  #21  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

David,

seems the puzzle is getting solved

ehsan
Old 05-08-2014, 12:45 PM
  #22  
Elation1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Doncaster, AZ, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default


This is a Supra Fly 45 that I made after taking measurements from an un-built kit. Powered by an OS 45 FSR (brand new) and weighing in at 5.5lbs, the model has a fantastic performance. Highly recommended.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture1.jpg
Views:	3127
Size:	154.8 KB
ID:	1993575   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0876.JPG
Views:	2479
Size:	997.5 KB
ID:	1993577   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0880.JPG
Views:	2696
Size:	1.15 MB
ID:	1993578  

Last edited by Elation1; 05-08-2014 at 12:50 PM.
Old 05-08-2014, 02:48 PM
  #23  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Steve,

thanks for posting pictures of your beautiful Supra Fly. I followed your build on the UK forum with much interest.

Will you be offering this as a kit or was it a "two-build" project?

I'm discussing with Ehsan the idea of doing a re-design of the Supra Star much in the same spirit of what you did on the SF. Scale would be very similar.

Incidentally, would you mind posting some detailed specs of your model - wing span, stab span, fuse length (spinner included)? I would also be interested in how you went about the radio installation and what components you chose.

Regards, David

Ehsan,

I just sent you email in reply.

Last edited by doxilia; 05-08-2014 at 02:57 PM.
Old 05-09-2014, 01:07 AM
  #24  
ehsanmorshedi
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: TehranTehran, IRAN
Posts: 140
Received 23 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Elation1 View Post

This is a Supra Fly 45 that I made after taking measurements from an un-built kit. Powered by an OS 45 FSR (brand new) and weighing in at 5.5lbs, the model has a fantastic performance. Highly recommended.
Steve,

Your Supra Fly is one of the best of is type, fine finishing.
Shall I ask you a question?
would you mind telling me the wing span?
Is it equiped with retractable landing gears?

Ehsan

Last edited by ehsanmorshedi; 05-09-2014 at 01:11 AM.
Old 05-09-2014, 04:22 AM
  #25  
Elation1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Doncaster, AZ, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi all. Model specs are:
Wingspan 1475mm (58")
Length (incl spinner) 1425 (56")
Stab span 598mm (24")
Weight 5.5lb (2.5kg)
JR 591 on rudder, elevator, throttle
Spektrum 6200 Digi on ailerons
OS 45 FSR with Just Engines Purple Pipe
Layout in fus below

Fixed U/C used as it's just for sport flying and on a grass strip. Easy and less hassle
Enjoy
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	fus layout.jpg
Views:	2660
Size:	57.2 KB
ID:	1993744  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.