This is way cool!

OK, I'll be the first to do a 100mph loop, 300 ft diameter.....he he he

8178 made the comment:
"Some have said pre-turnaround but there were people still flying Tipos and other new designs in the beginning of turnaround so the pre 1996 seems to work. When 2M started everything really changed and the “Classics� were no longer competitive in the higher classes."

At the risk of exposing my ignorance, (I've been out of pattern since the mid '80s), could someone give me the Reader's Digest version basically explaining the difference between first, the old SPA pattern planes, (Taurus, Phoenix 1, then later SPA such as the Dirty Birdy), then later, (pre-1996) pattern planes, and finally the 2M planes of today, and why the older planes are no longer competative. I can guess it's because of the higher speed does not lend itself to turnaround, but it's just a guess. I've been out of the "loop" so long, I need a basic education about what's happened in the last 20 years. Please help.

This ought to bring everybody to the same starting point.

8178 made the comment:
"Some have said pre-turnaround but there were people still flying Tipos and other new designs in the beginning of turnaround so the pre 1996 seems to work. When 2M started everything really changed and the “Classics� were no longer competitive in the higher classes."

At the risk of exposing my ignorance, (I've been out of pattern since the mid '80s), could someone give me the Reader's Digest version basically explaining the difference between first, the old SPA pattern planes, (Taurus, Phoenix 1, then later SPA such as the Dirty Birdy), then later, (pre-1996) pattern planes, and finally the 2M planes of today, and why the older planes are no longer competative. I can guess it's because of the higher speed does not lend itself to turnaround, but it's just a guess. I've been out of the "loop" so long, I need a basic education about what's happened in the last 20 years. Please help.

This ought to bring everybody to the same starting point.

I’ll take a stab at that although I haven’t been active in pattern though all of its twists and turns, only the 70s through the 90s time frame. Hopefully someone can chime in and add more detail.

In the late 60s and early 70s pattern was dominated by flyers like Phil Kraft (Kwik Fli series) and Ralph Brooke (Crusader and the Gladiator). Everything was scored including take off and landings, procedure stop and taxi back to the hanger, etc. As the 60 size engines became more powerful flyers started using retracts and the aircraft became faster and the maneuvers started getting larger and more graceful. The way pattern was judged and progressed over time was impacted by the flood of new designs with each designer looking for a competitive edge. Some say that the late 60s and up to around 75 was the golden age of pattern. Almost everyone in a given club owned a pattern aircraft and clubs hosted a lot of pattern events. This is the time frame that the SPA is focused on. You can learn more about the SPA at http://www.seniorpattern.com/ One twist to the SPA is they do not allow retracts, piped engines but do allow FS 91 size engines. Needless to say most run FS 91s. The idea was to keep the aircraft simple and have fun. On the other hand the Vintage Radio Control Society is focused on pre 1970 aircraft http://midsouthflyin.tripod.com/ .

As the aircraft became faster powered with piped and hot 2S 61s, the Curare, Tiporare class, they became incredibly fast rocket ships that really burned up the sky. Around this time frame turn around and flying the box came about apparently to slow everything down and use less space and make less noise. Many people consider the Curare and Tiporare type flying the zenith of RC pattern. But, the rocket ships were way too fast to be competitive in the new pattern. In the 1996 season 2M ships were allowed that had a lot of power, usually tail draggers with fixed gear and could fly slowly and did a great job on the new pattern. Because of the large size and light weight they are more costly than the old classics but to be competitive many flyers in the lower classes start out with a 2M aircraft. You could fly an older pattern design but you would not be very competitive flying against the 2M ships. The pattern has morphed to the point that take off and landings are only scored with a 0 or 10 now-a-days! Today's pattern is a new world and it started in 1996.

Thanks for the very even-handed response. As a new special-interest section, we need to make very sure everyone understands there is no "right and wrong", as to what's "best"--it's just a question of where each of our individual interests lie. Personally, I have definite leanings, but I honestly am interested in aerobatics in general, and can relate to all the planes covered in the "Classic Pattern" section. I'm sure I would even enjoy watching, (or maybe competing in), 2M pattern also in time--but I have just gotten back into R/C the past 2 years, and have never been to a modern patern event---I just don't know enough about it right now.

For nostalgic reasons, (and I'm sure that's why all of us are interested in the "Classic Pattern" ships of one era or another), I am glad there is so much interest in these planes. I competed in the early to mid'80s era, so I can sure relate to the fast, huge maneuvers mentioned above. On the other hand, I was an early teenager when the pioneers of pattern, (Lowe, Brett, Kazmirski, Kirkland, De Bolt were flying the Taurus, Perigee, Phoenix 1, Beachcombers etc). Our club, (RCCD--Detroit area), used to host an invitational meet in the mid '60s, and I personally saw most of these pioneers and their planes up close. It left a deep impression The first plane I built was the Phoenix 1 from RCM plans---I wasn't good enough to fly it at the time, but I didn't care--those swept wings were sooo cool. Every month, magazines like MAN and RCM, (I wish we had kept that 1st issue of RCM), would come out with a new exciting plane on the cover. Like you say, this WAS the golden age of pattern popularity, when the average guy could build and fly the same plane as the big boys. Except for the early proportional radios--the cost to fly the state of the art plane wasn't that prohibitive.

Anyway, for many reasons, I'm drawn to this era of aircraft, and I'm excited about the interest in this new forum. Please add your own thoughts/reasons for your interest, and why you're here.

Thanks

Great information! Wow a Phoenix 1! Don Lowe’s son is active in the SPA and monitors RCU forums.

It would be wonderful to see this new forum become popular and so far considering, it’s about one day old, I’d say its doing great!

A few more comments about pattern evolution:
Initially, with the introduction of Aresti style pattern in 1984, fliers thought they'd need bigger slower planes to stay in the box. wolfgang Matt's Joker is a good example. He had been flying an Arrow which was one of the fastest of the old style pattern designs - I loved mine!! At the 1985 FAI WC the Japanese showed up with fast airplanes only slightly larger than previous designs; such as the Aurora which was preceded by the Cosmos. The 150 meter boundary was not very stringently enforced. The Japanese flew closer to 180 meters out. Designs changed to be larger (for .60s), but fast (thin horizontal surfaces) such as the Mistress or the Summit or the Jeckyll. Naruke Shpwed up at the 1987 WC with his YS 1.20 powered Silent ST design and impressed everybody. 1989 was the last WC where both 2-stroke .60s and 4-stroke 1.20s competed in relatively even numbers. Aircraft performance varied tremendously. Tony Frakowiak had his Fyg Leaf .60 powered biplane. He flew precise, but quite small maneuvers. Wolfgang Matt had his Saphir .60 design which he retrofitted with the YS 1.20. It was a rocket - FAST - it accelerated in the verticals and the maneuvers were HUGE. I was lucky enough to attend. Probably the biggest variety of flying styles ever.
The 2meter, 5kg, unlimited horsepower rule and continued refinement of the aerobatic sequences has driven current designs. Large fuselage volumes to enhance rolling maneuvers at lower speeds. Smaller, thinner, double tapered wings to reduce drag and improve snap rolling maneuvers.
Who knows what's next...
My 2 cents :-)
Will B.

What year did AMA go to the "turnaround" style pattern in its sanctioned contests?
Thanks