Bob..

Thanks a bunch for the update. Much apprecaited

The NEW SITE for Zimpro is:

[email protected]

They are best known for two-meter birds, and in SPA circles for the Daddy Rabbit. They also cut foam wing cores.

Duane

Does any one has a link to Wing Mfg site. I wanted to know something about Vertigo II.

Thanks

http://www.wingmfg.com/

For European followers:

Bitmodell
http://www.bitmodell.de
Curare 60/40, Leopard

Sunshine modelle
http://www.sunshine-modellbau.de
Curare 60/40/10, Blue Angel 60

Beineke Modellbau
http://www.beineke-modellbau.de
Shadow, Monza, Azzurro

The website links for Precision Aero Components are rejected by my antivirus program due to a virus infection on that side. Someone at that site needs to clean it up.

ChiefK

PAC has been shut down for some time, IIRC. I wish they were still around, since they had a lot of the most desirable 80's/90's era pattern designs for sale.

Rick

Here's another place for short kits of these

Mark III Kwik Fli $65.36 short kit By Model Airplane News
Orion $82.60 By: Topflite
Ultimate Kaos 60 $69.19 Updated fuse by Direct Connection
Super Kaos $46.69 By: RCM

http://lazer-works.com/rcm.html

They have a nice selection of RCM, Midwest, Model Airplane News etc. short kits.

I got a Super Kaos and Midwest Das Little Stick form them.

What exactly came in your super Kaos kit form LazerWorks ?

The last I checked they Are in bussiness, just not doing the pattern stuff anymore. They were a typical hobby store with the small foam R/C planes and such.. last I looked.


DM

I stand corrected.

Rick

Paternguy. Here's what I got in the short kit.
-3/32" ribs
-1/4" fuse sides
-1/32" plywood fuse doublers
-Formers
etc.

I'd be surprised if he's not selling the crap out of these short kits.

Bryan

[X(][X(] WOW!!!

Nice kit at prices from what...25-30 years ago?

Keep a written budget on this when you build her Roguedog. I think the glue is going to cost more than the kit!?


DM

I have re-drawn the plans and made a laser cut file for the original Χάος as I call it (chaos is from Greek). I got two short kits made, one for myself and one for a friend. I thought about offering short kits, but I don't know what to do about the plans. The parts only fit my re-drawn plans, not the original. Even so, it still doesn't feel right selling my drawings. Any suggestions or input on this matter?

David

I guess it depends on how many you plan to sell. If your just doing it for friends. I don't think you need to worry. If your planning on going into the business of selling kits I guess that would be another story. PM'ed you about this

There is a guy on ebay selling plans that aren't his, but he continues to do it anyway. So there is always the chance some hack will try to capitalize on your work. Then again is it alright to call it a Chaos or Kaos or some other already used name. I don't know about that.

Maybe that's why FK had different names for the glass planes that were close copies of the the MK Kits eg Blue Angel vs SBA

To pursue or not to pursue (appropriate commerce)?

Rainedave,

I am a big fan of your plans and your engine work and now your character as well. You are correct to consider the "authentic owners" of design A. B or C.

Example: Kaos, Super Kaos, Dirty Birdy, Dirty Birdy 40, Kaos 40...

The Kaos models for example, originally Bridi Enterprises, Inc, was sold to Great Planes Manufacturing, now a division of Hobbico. Hobbico owns the design (...most certainly a complex legal description) and I am absoulutely certain, if you contacted them, they would be happy to officially license the design for a modest fee.

Example of loophole: The Warlord

Consider the phrase "legal is what legal does" better known as "hey, I can change this a little here and there and it is DIFFERENT" better known as "well, I sold you the company and rights to exact model A, B and C. I have taken ELEMENTS from A, B and C and made E,F and G" better known as "too bad for you...I can slightly modify the designs I sold you last week and sell them this week using my fine reputation".

The Warlord uses elements from the proven Bridi designs and re-packaged them, complete with new names...legal yes...the most ethical, no.

The opportunity?:

Align yourself with a fine laser cutter, such as Dan @ Laser Tech (Mach One, Sequel...) and share your skills...execute appropriate permission and you will have at least one customer...me!

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba (a division of Hobbico)
Team YS Parts and Service
Capitalist

Consider the phrase "legal is what legal does" better known as "hey, I can change this a little here and there and it is DIFFERENT" better known as "well, I sold you the company and rights to exact model A, B and C. I have taken ELEMENTS from A, B and C and made E,F and G" better known as "too bad for you...I can slightly modify the designs I sold you last week and sell them this week using my fine reputation".

The Warlord uses elements from the proven Bridi designs and re-packaged them, complete with new names...legal yes...the most ethical, no.

The opportunity?:

Align yourself with a fine laser cutter, such as Dan @ Laser Tech (Mach One, Sequel...) and share your skills...execute appropriate permission and you will have at least one customer...me!

Rusty Dose


This is true... But it IS opinion based on personal ethics.
It is One view of a vary, vary large form of patent rights. You can also look at the same issue (rule) from a designers piont of view. One who sells patents for royalties. One can have a specific design, sell the rights, then change that design (which he doesn't legally own any more) patent the new design and offer that design for more royalties on an open market.

Designing a plane that simply has the same exact layout as the original, but is completely different as a build Is a different plane and a different design. Not my opinion, but the rules of the PTO, Patent and Trademark Office. It would fall under a Utility Patent and as far as it was in 2003 it was at the cost of roughly $800 to submit the application... Thats To own YOUR own rights on that design! But once you offer it (the design), or share it, or just talk and show it to someone, it becomes Public Knowledge and is then fair game.
If you are serious about this matter, run down to borders and thumb through their books on the subject. I had a copy that I paid about $50 for that even had Every application the PTO offered. They had it in the back of the book. Very good read.
I rreally think you should get the book, even if you do not proceed with the Patent application, it will help you for what it seems You are destined to get into... Becoming a R/C Model Airplane Designer, which you pretty much already are!

DM

I'm looking for a short kit of an "open Face" Kaos. the one before the Super... I only had one but had 3 Supers in my day... I really want the open face...
can you point me in the direction?

David,

consider this.

Several of the short kit cutters and vendors supply plans with their kits whether original or redrawn in CAD. However, notice that Isaid supply. What this means is that the plans are not being sold - only the kit is. The plans are being shared freely by interested parties and some of these plans circulate due to them no longer being offered (under rights) commercially.

As A60 points out, it is quite likely that if you offered a Kaos kit or any other classic (preferably not in current production) along with plans on the auction site (or elsewhere), you might be entitled to do so. In essence the rights of the design are not being infringed provided you do not sell the original plans. Alter the design somewhat, use different construction menthods, provide a modern CAD plan, credit the original design inspiration and you may well be in a position to sell the kit of your new design which has a different (Greek) name.

My 2c. David.

List of Classic Pattern Kit Manufacturers and OTHERSOURCES...

I have added "...and OTHER SOURCES" tomy post,as an appropriate method to share the existence of a newsletter dedicated to the golden age of R/C precision aerobatics- the "Classic Pattern-Trader". Send me a RCU (PM) toreceive the no cost, no fee newsletter which isa not for profit information source.

I initially was going to produce a simple one page list of hard to find kits, engines and accessories available for purchase from modelers all over the world...I have now determined that based on truly extraordinary response it has expanded to include an interview of a special personality (June 2009 issue is Ben Strasser) , flight trimming information from Dave Guerin, meet a "collector" (want MK kits...I havefound one guy with many...priced right and available), classic kit reviews/builds and much more...

Want to know the where to find a newly found classic kit...that just became available? I have created a no fee, no cost "Classic Alert" which is a e-mail about a special item found on the world wide web. Send me a RCU (PM) with your e-mail address to receive the alerts. Individuals who have asked to receive the "Classic Pattern-Trader" are automatically on the list.

The "Classic Pattern-Trader" and the "Classic Alert" will replace 99.9% of my writing on RCU.

Rusty Dose

That's a pretty impressive deal from Lazerworks. The Kaos was such a good flying ship; just got a Tower Kaos from a club member, so we'll see how the new guy stacks up. I had the open face when it was out with the orange and white trimscheme on the box.

8178 started a really good thread on the Tower arf:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_37..._1/key_/tm.htm

Sorry if you already know about it.

David

Thanks for the link; wasn't following it until now. The Tower Kaos appears to be a nice knockoff of the original.

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Unlike the purple and white version that was covered with Monokote the latest version is covered with some type of Chinese junk that is a real mess!It would be a good idea to peel it all off and cover it with MonoKote before you snap it together.Out of the box it will peel right off with little effort.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt">Too bad more of this stuff isn&rsquo;t made in the US with quality materials and quality US workmanship. Hate the idea of my hard earned money ending up in another country like China, especially with our current US economic challenges.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"></div>

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