I've never competed or even flown AMA profiles, but have always liked pattern ships. I've been on and off in the hobby for years, but I've noticed the big thing now is 30% extra looking things, hovering, and everything is four stroke. What happened to .60 2 stroke? OS doesn't seem to offer a pumped .60 anymore, and YS has dropped ALL 2 stroke airplane engines including the .45! I can't even find pattern stuff in Tower or on Ebay anymore, like it's just been erased. What gives?

I feel your pain; I am getting back into R/C after an 8+ year layoff and the landscape is very different from when I left. What happened? ARF's, 3D, giant scale, helis and decent performing electrics.


Mark

I do not have all the dates and details but in general this is what I saw happen. From the mid 60 to the late 80s pattern aircraft and pattern flying was immensely popular. Almost everyone I knew had a pattern ship and there were pattern contest everywhere. At first the aircraft were slower like the Kwik Fli IIs, etc. but as time went on the aircraft got faster with retracts, hot 61 engines with pipes and were rocket ships like the Tiporare and others. The maneuvers were basically presented one at a time allowing flyers of the Tiporare and others to setup for maneuvers from high speed split Ss, get on the pipe and fly very fast huge breathtaking maneuvers. Pattern was very popular then, both for flyers and spectators. They flew more like jets (rockets) than prop jobs.

In the late 80s the FAI and AMA went from the opened ended flying to turn around. I believe that the turn around idea was mainly a European idea to limit the amount of space used by pattern aircraft to help keep flying sites.

At this point things were slowed down and less space used to fly the sequence with maneuvers that were linked together. The aircraft designs changed to meet the challenge of the new sequence making the rocket ships obsolete. I think this was the first phase of the down turn in pattern interest. It also lost some of its spectator appeal.

Sometime after 1995 the Europeans wanted aircraft that had 2 meter or less wing spans and length and no limit on engine size. The AMA followed along. Pattern flying changed to a much slower flight sequence where constant speed and flying within a box was the key. To keep the speed constant aircraft shapes changed and finally developed into the very large fuselages that you see today. The 2M ships were the second phase of the down turn in interest and with all the other RC stuff going on not many continued on with pattern. The 2M ships are usually not something you would typically invest in for Sunday fun flying but some do. It is pretty hard to throw one in the back seat of your compact sedan! It is unlike the earlier pattern days where someone bought a pattern ship learn how to fly it and then went looking for a pattern contest.

The 2M ships can be very expense and that is when Mickey Walker came up with the Senior Pattern idea. Low cost fun to fly pattern like it was before 1975. But the SPA has morphed some and they allow 91 FS engines that are hard to install in older pattern aircraft, are also expensive so there is no relief.

I’m sure others will join in on the history with more detail.

This forum was setup for pre 1996 pattern discussion because that was a major turning point for pattern aircraft and flying.

8178, I think you pretty well nailed it. The spectators are more attuned to the big high speed maneuvers like they see with the Blue Angels or the Thunderbirds and don't find anything entertaining about a humpty bump except the name, nor are they impressed by the fact that current pattern ships require an 18 wheeler for transport to and from the flying field.

One of the other issues I encountered in the '90's was that it became increasingly difficult to recruit competent judges. The so-called 'turnaround' schedule is much faster paced and more difficult to judge well and consistently. Where the old AMA schedule left some time to reflect and do a mental playback on a maneuver before scoring it, the new schedule required that the judge simply take a quick shot at it and go on to the next one.

This became frustrating to me as a competitor, because I knew that the judge was doing his best but was not able to give consistent scores. It was equally(or more) frustrating to me as a judge, because I was fully aware that I wasn't giving everyone a fair shake. At that point I lost interest and started flying my pattern ships(Tip, Deception, EU1-B) for sport.

I still miss the fun and fellowship that we all enjoyed on the old pattern circuit here in Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, but as you and others have said, nowadays you have to look long and hard to find the few pattern contests still being held. I like the Senior Pattern idea except for the preponderance of four stroke engines, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much interest or activity except in Georgia and a few other spots in the South.

8178, I too think you got the chronology pretty much right.
I do have a differing opinion on some of your points if I may.
I am a pattern retread.
I flew my last pattern contest in 1985.
Quit RC around '88 or '89 and started back a year ago this month.
Last year when I started I told myself I would never compete again.
I bought a UCD 60, had the weather turn cold a couple months later and had to wait for Spring. When the weather turned flyable again I quickly became tired of just boring holes in the sky. I told my wife if this was all there is I would quit again. I found myself trying to fly the old AMA pattern. I knew about the changes to turnaround. I was a judge at the US Team selections in 1985 and that year you were allowed to fly your AMA class, mine was Advanced, and the FAI if you liked at the local contests. By the way I too flew the Texas circuit back then. There was a lot of resistance to turnaround by the established flyers but you could tell it was the way of the future.
When I decided to give it a try this Spring I attended a pattern clinic. Yes...with the UCD!
I hadn't seen the new planes but I was impressed.
I was also impressed with the level of flying.
I decided to give it a try and started on an Ultra RC Quest 2.
Observations:
The new pattern is more difficult with judged turnarounds. You get no breaks.
If you mess up one maneuver that error compounds and you can dig yourself a deeper hole.
But you know what? It's a heck of a lot of fun.
The planes and engines are better! My ARF Quest flys better then my Phoenix, Arrow or Dalotel from 20 years ago. It's a fact. And the power of a YS...well...if I had only had one 20 years ago! No more scrambled plugs, blown couplers, etc.
I trully do believe that the overall skill of the pilots is better. And the grace and flow of the flying is impressive.
And finally, folks are just friendlier. If you have a problem at a contest you have so much help it is unbelievable. I have made two contests now...12 judged flights. I have had a Master as a coach/caller on each one. All you have to do is ask and they all will help you...all the way up to FAI.
At the clinic there was someone there with an old AMA plane. Looked like a Phoenix but wasn't...retracts, .61, the whole bit. I was both glad and sad to see it fly. Glad because until that time I too had longed for the old planes...sad because seeing it fly in that context I realized it's time had passed...it was obsolete.
As far as size of the planes, yes they are bigger but most have two piece wings so that part isn't too bad to transport. The fuse is longer. I remember being able to put the Phoenix fuse in the passenger side of my '81 El Camino! You're right you can't do that anymore.
My experience this time around has been all good!
Just like 20 years ago.
It's a lot of fun and worth tracking down a contest as close as possible to you.
Just go to the NSRCA website and you can see all the districts and schedules.
Give it a try...I bet you'll like it!!!

Yes, 8178 hit the nail on the head with his timeline. I began competing in 1990 right after I first learned to do a loop and roll. I flew novice pattern for over a year with my high-wing trainer. I couldn't win because of the plane, but I usually didn't come in last either. By the time I took a break from flying to chase girls I was finishing top-3 in every contest I entered with my O.S. .60 powered Escape. This was around 1993 or 94 (I managed a 10 on 3 inside loops, my shining moment in pattern). Anyway, when I got out I had just gotten a new ship and engine(a YS .61 AR) for Christmas, and it went into mothballs with just a handfull of flights on it. I brought it out briefly about 6 or 7 years ago just to try and get back into the sport, but that came to an abrupt end with the theft of my 7 UAF futaba computer radio. I gave in about a month ago and bought a new radio, and now I have the bug worse than I ever had it before. I went to a small contest last weekend just to see what would happen, and I was extremely pleased. I buddied up with some guys whose names I remembered from the old days, and I struggled my way through 6 rounds of an Intermediate pattern that I had hardly read, let alone practiced and committed to memory. My .61-powered ship showed all the characteristics that you would expect... poor vertical performance and too much speed to provide ample time to think between maneuvers. I didn't care, I was having fun. I have another kit of the plane I'm flying now and I plan to buy a used YS .91 or a new 1.10 to build it around, because the old plane was not the real problem, the power plant was. I've noticed that as much as people seem to be complaining about the changes to pattern, not much other than the move to turnaround has changed. The mantra remains, just a little more specific: stronger but still light, and more power (equated to more torque, hence the 4-strokes). Anyway, my feeling toward pattern is extremely optimistic. It was great to see some old faces at that meet, and along with that I met some of the up-and-coming. The heart of pattern still beats strong because it remains grounded by its roots: straight lines and precise maneuvers. The day I quit pattern flying is the day the AMA (I don't care what FAI does) creates a freestlye portion...

jlkonn

I hope I didn’t make it sound too negative. I was trying to explain how a facet of our hobby that was absolutely huge became very small in comparison. Not that there are not people having fun with the current pattern. Nothing is ever static and I expect if they didn’t like the rules and the resulting aircraft they would change them.

8178,
No, no...
I didn't think you were being critical at all.
I thought your timeline was right on!
I think we may have a slight difference in opinion as to why the perception is a lessening of interest but Hey!
That's what makes the world goes 'round.
There's room for us all in this hobby!

I always enjoy your posts.
JLK

Let me add my two-cents worth. I agree with the aformentioned opinions expressed. I started in pattern in the mid seventies. In Texas where I lived at the time, going to contests required much long distance traveling. It seemed that there were less competitors at most of these events. I recently flew in the SPA event in Chattanooga (28 fliers) and had a ball. Though I didn't fly that well, the fellowship was well worth the trip. I would recommend that those hardy folks that want to continue the old style of pattern flying join the SPA. You won't be dissapointed. Stop complaining about the four-strokes and join the fray. Yes planes are hard to find. I have now started scratch building from old plans. It's a great feeling to build your own plane and have it perform well. It gives me a sense of pride and accomplishment. The engine problems regarding c/g with the heavier 4-strokes can be solved during the scratch building process by lengthening the rear fuse a little, or adding a few squares of weight under the tail. The planes perform really well and the noise isn't so onerous. I have noticed lately that some younger fliers are attending our events and doing really well. It's nice to know the baton will be handed to another generation of "Old time" pattern flying and the SPA will continue to exist in the distant future.

The biggest problem we've had this year with SPA is that we're having so much fun that no one wants to go back to work on Monday.

Chattanooga was exceptional. This was a first SPA event for this club. It was well organized and run on a great flying site. We had fun. We had lots of weird stuff happen. We had a great dinner on Saturday night. The heat index was over 100 both days and no one really cared. We flew 4 strokes. We flew 2 strokes. Somebody probably actually flew a plane built according to the plans. The competition was very tight.

Guys, please forget differences over airplane heresies. Just come fly. This is too much fun to miss.

We've got a core group forming in central Florida. There are about 10 guys in Texas. We've got a group forming in Idaho and Oregon. Since Duane Wilson's article appeard in Model Aviation, SPA has grown 30%. There are still guys around who know how to build and enjoy the old style planes.

I have recently done some prop experimentation. I've found that the correct 3 blade prop will make a normal .61 pull like a 4 stoke .91. The next SPA newsletter will carry full details.

P51B

I just wanted you to know that since the May issue of Model Aviation, and the follow-up article by Eric Henderson in his column, SPA has experienced at last count at least a 35% increase---just since May. I truly believe that although SPA is spoken of frequently in this forum, most "regular" club flyers have never heard of it--SPA is one of the best kept secrets in AMA, but more people are finding out and are joining. Just this past weekend we held a contest in Chattanooga ,Tn, and got 5 new memberships from within the local club, and first-time competitors. I think SPA has a great future because competition NEVER gets old, and is not generational. Sure the planes are "vintage", but the same designs that are nostalgic for some of us are NEW designs for teens and "kids" in their 20s. Also, the "price is right".

8178 will be interested to know there is a current resurgance of 2-strokes. Mickey Walker showed up at the last contest with a NEW Dirty Birdy sporting a hot 2-stroke. That plane and a Compensator were the fastest planes there, and performed well.

Several of the new members added to the roles are from Texas. Check out the SPA website, and ask the officers where the Texas members are located.

Duane

When you say a new Dirty Birdy with a hot .60, you mean it has an engine that's out of production, right? Does anyone really make a hot 2 stroke .60 anymore? Besides Jett? All OS has is that .61 FX. Had one- it wasn't that hot.

Very happy news for sure!

------------


You can buy newly made Rossi AXE .60's on e**y. I haven't ran mine as yet, so I can't attest to how hot it is, but I would be surprised if it didn't cook like an old one. And the price was less than what I would have paid for an equivalent Rossi "back in the day".

Well, let's just put it this way---this plane really hauled relative to the other planes there with 4-stroke engines, and had more than adequate vertical for the maneuvers that required it.
"Hot" is in the mind of the beholder, but you get the picture when I say it really "carried the mail."

I used to fly a Dirty Birdy back in Novice pattern in the mid 80's, and I remember the D.B. as a very curvacious, (translated sleek), and very fast plane, even without a tuned pipe.

I just know someone is going to "nail" me on this, but I thought I overheard someone saying the Compensator pictured above has a YS Heli 2-stroke in it. It was also very quick--maybe faster than the D.B.

Will that engine work in a fixed wing application???

I don't know if you can get them, but the Thunder Tiger Pro .61 is available and is a splendid engine for classic pattern models...
Evan.

Tommygun,

The YS Heli has a very short shaft. Other than the complications caused by that, it should work fine....

turbo

IMO The TT .61 is a fine engine but no powerhouse. A Webra or HP .61 would be a better choice. If money is no object the Jett .61 would probably be thebest. If money is an object, then possiby the K&B twist head with a tuned muffler.