rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Wow! Looks good, nice "kit."

Since I don't have an economical way to cut cores, I'm going with a built-up wing, too. I drew up the rib patterns and a drawing to build over.

David

WEDJ

I'll be very interested to see a built-up wing version and hear about the flight characteristics.

WEDJ

Here's the shot of the differential I was talking about earlier today.

PS - the belly pan does not need a doubler.

WEDJ

Actually, a wire center skid bent a bit rearward would do nicely. Mount it on the firewall.

airbusdrvr

WEDJ, you have piqued my curiosity with your differential aileron with a single servo. I can't seem to copy one page from the .pdf file for the Tower Kaos instructions, but on page 9 of this link, http://www.towerhobbies.com/products...owa2052mnl.pdf, the single aileron servo setup is shown. How would this be modified to give differential aileron?

Mad Man Marko-RCU

What I used to do on low wing ships with a single (or double would be the same) is to use a servo wheel for control and intsead of using the center holes I would use the first hole back from the center. Set the ailerons level with the rod in that hole and with the same throw in each direction you will get more up than down (differential). If the servo was mounted on the wing bottom use the first hole forward of center on the wheel.

The good old days before computer radios.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Mark O

airbusdrvr

Neat idea to use a wheel on the servo. In the attached pic, the same method was used with two servos to get differential rudder from two servos that were Y-connected on a single channel. I'm going to get one of my wheel servo controls and try it on the Kaos.

Mad Man Marko-RCU

The wheel offset works due to the geometry of rotary servos having more throw (linear) at the center of their travel than towards the ends. This actually results in having reverse exponential in the controls. So any model with rotary servos will be slightly hotter around neutral than at the extremes. When proportional radios first came out all the servos had a linear output or a combo linear and rotary. On my Futaba 9ZAPS there is a setting in the expo/dualrate setup for (true linear) which give you -16% expo. So if you do not have this on your radio remember that you need at least -20% to really have any expo at all.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Mark O

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

My Feedback: (180)

David,
Did you not get the built up wing plan with rib patterns with your plans? Mine shows 12 ribs. You're welcome to make a copy if you wish.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

I just re-drew it with eight ribs. It's not going to save any noticeable weight.

Here's a link to Aileron Differential. There are some image links at the bottom of the page:

http://www.mindspring.com/~cramskill/diffthro.htm

Look at the third diagram on the far right in this image. The holes where the aileron pushrods connect travel 45° each way around the arc of the wheel, but the pushrods travel unequal distances forward and back. There is more forward travel and less rearward travel.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

If one uses ball links on the aileron linkage, and the wing is near the datum line of the model, no differential is needed. The whole idea is to get the wing to "fly" through the natural roll of the model, instead of skidding.

Once upon a time (as many of you will remember) our servos used a square output peg, instead of being fitted with fine splines. There was no electronic neutral adjust, no exponential, no total travel control (volume) and you had to set up your model to fly through the maneuvers with only your ability to "see the angles" needed in the servo's output wheels. Honest! I laugh when I hear people bellyaching about having to set up radios today.

Being an old troll, I still do as much trimming as I can mechanically. Then, if needed, I'll tweak it up with the electronics on the Tx.


Ed Cregger

WEDJ

Amen! My PP is set up without any mixing etc.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

I also believe in getting 90-some% of the way there mechanically. In fact, with the exception of some throttle channels, all of my model memories have the travel set to at least 100% on 1,2 and 4.

One thing I don't like seeing at the field are other models with the pushrods connected to the outermost servo arm hole and the innermost control horn hole. This only decreases the resolution of servo and control surface travel making the controls jerky and overly sensitive. It's like going back to pulse control.

I always start with the pushrods connected to the innermost hole on the servo arm and the outermost one on the horn. If I need more travel I can increase it with the transmitter, but I usually don't. It makes control surface travel very smooth and precise. It also keeps stick travel proportional to surface travel and gives you access to the full range of stick movement. It feels like having a bit of expo. It's amazing how much precision it adds to your control when you have access to the full range of stick movement.

David

Mad Man Marko-RCU

Ed:
That is the best way to go at the setup. Make it mechanically correct and use the whells and arms to get what you want . Then you can use a little MAGIC from the radio to really fine tune the plane. I still have a bunch of those square output servos around and some linear ones too.

Here's to "The Good Old Days"

Peace


Mark O

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

My Feedback: (180)

I had my wings halves completed sitting on my bench in my garage and I somehow managed to knock off my detail gun right in the middle of both wings. - destroyed. [:@]

I'm really bummed since they turned out so well. Anyone want to cut some cores for me??? [&:]

WEDJ

OHHHHHHH

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

What a bummer. Search for foam core manufacturing, there's several references on the site.

pt40crasher

How can I get the .15 plans?

Thanks

WEDJ

See post #54.

Doc.316

Hello;
I built two "Peppermint Pattie's" back when I was 18 or so...(hmmm am 43 now <sigh>)...but they are still around! We built them with landing gear...my friends has a os .25 (an old fsr) on it and mine has had a .20 OS, Royal .28 and finally a os .25 on it...It flys "great"! and has been flown pretty much every year except for a brief 5 year stint in college. Wow it is....25 years old.... It has had...(thinking) a tower radio..(kraft), a futaba gold box, a century 7, then I have flown it with a x347,8103, and now a 9303... It is one of my oldest planes...I just made pics of it if you guys/gals would like to see it. You might have to explain to me how to upload them.

Steve

WEDJ

To upload:

Hit "post relpy" in the lower left corner. Then "click here to up;load photo." Browse for the photo. click OK then post your reply.

I'd love to see the photos

Doc.316

Ok; there it is down there in text. Here is a pic of a pepermint pattie.

vintageflyer

My Feedback: (1)

25 years old and she looks like she just rolled out of the hanger







DM

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

She is beautiful, isn't she?

My Peppermint Pattie was capable of doing the most spectacular Lomcevak (SP?) of any model that I have ever flown.

Yes, there are many types of Lomcevak described over the years, but, to me, the only one that counts is the one where the model is moving forward at a good clip while the nose and tail swap ends several times. The PP performed this maneuver at high speed and made one heck of an amount of air noise while rotating.

I used to make folks dive for the space under their cars nearly every time I did the maneuver. It was hard not to laugh so hard as to nearly cause a crash. The best part was that the model was still at 50' of altitude, so I wasn't doing this down low to the ground and making folks think that I was going to hit them with the model. The sound it generated was that awesome and scared the dickens out of those that were not visually tracking the model. Just ask Henry Bunk. Hi, Henry!!! <G>

I now have a PP kit in the shop, thanks to a friend on this forum, and I hope to get her assembled and built the way that mine should have been originally. I just hope that it flies like my original PP. I also hope that thirty years later, I am as capable of flying it as I used to be. Well, I can hope...<G>


Ed Cregger

Sundance120

I received a set of Peppermint Pattie plans From WEDJ and I think the airplane is really neat. I am putting a Webra Speedy (10) 1.8cc rear exhaust front intake with a tuned pipe on it. I hope it will be a good enough combination. Anyone know any more about this little engine?

Thanks

Bruce

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

The Webra Speedy .10 has a great reputation. So great that I always intended to obtain one, but always missed the opportunity for one reason or another.

All of this talk about differential and trimming with aileron torque tubes is interesting, but it just occurred to me that one could use two of the really small servos that are available today with probably no significant weight gain. That would be the ultimate in trimming out adverse or proverse yaw in the ailerons, if one has a suitable computerized transmitter. I'm going to forego the torque rods when I build my Patty and go for the seperate servos in each wing scheme.

A really hot .10 or .12 engine with a serious eye on keeping OAW to a minimum would lead to the best flying PP of all. I'm going to stick with what worked for me in the past, however (HB .15) since it seemed to be the perfect marriage of sufficient power coupled with light weight. Yes, it is not in the Cox .15 Conquest class of power generators, but it is way lighter, which means a lot in a model this small. I'll forego the landing gear again, just to "keep it clean" while flying.


Ed Cregger