Taurus Flyer

Andy,

You are right, have fun!
For me only facts are important and as normally all new collected data, pictures and correspondence is transferred in the schedule and files. I was able to do some successful double checks with it.
Read post 7 of this post, this is and was always a one man show and Juries only can be accepted if they know all about 3D triangulation themselves, see the square!
Maybe next post about a sensational flop movie!!


Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,
Shear webs still in the pipeline, more important facts first.
Of the practical method I did use to recreate the Oldest Taurus on Earth I do explain most on page 1 and 2 of this thread, laser beaming, but read especially Post 35 page 2

Results:
LE and TE of the stab picture 5 and 6 as expected no difference with the thread method and I always can get this result, but.........

Before I did use the laser beaming method I did use a cotton thread method, first check of the method and more detailed setup of the plans. I didn’t show much of this activity to reduce the length of the thread. The Method is exact the same as laser beaming, only less accurate!!!!

I did look for a second opinion of this method because the Jury “never came in” with any subject-related and substantive assessment.
I did look for an example of my own profession, instrumentation engineer and one of my activities that is redesign and reconstruction of hurdy gurdy’s.
I have a nice picture to show of a lute music instrument and the use of the thread method to create a scaled picture, point of view is on the wall. Have attention for the title, ‘the draughtsman and the lute’.

Isn’t the method scientific enough? Are the results “Imagination” because there wasn’t a computer used?
I recommend everybody to read that book “Treatise on mensuration with the Compass and Ruler in Line, Planes, and Whole Bodies .”

Year? Yes 1525, so as old as the way to Rome.

Second picture, nothing special only interesting for the Cream Puff to archive the used method with three POVs.

Gents, education it is all about , see for that post 1160 of Ed Kazmirski’s Taurus. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8637953

Picture 3, Classic Pattern Flying, no computers needed!

It also has to do with that interesting post of the Flop still to come but that’s a little bit complicated to fit in one post, takes some time, but is fun anyway.
Tittle : IT IS ALL COMING TOGETHER, OR, MAYBE JUST NOT!


Cees



Gents, for the USA members, google for Giovanni da Verrazzano, I just discover the book is older than the USA so maybe you do not have it overthere and so even your dad never read it!

Taurus Flyer

Gents,
Tittle : IT IS ALL COMING TOGETHER, OR, MAYBE JUST NOT!


As told in post “A complete failure is not a good begin”, I did read in a document about 3D reconstruction and after that of course Thomas Edison:
"Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something. "

And then it is a small step to the Flop movie I did want to show, a movie to show where the name Flop does came from because of course also Ed did know this all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6a6Hkp94o
Have attention for the engineers, they are colleagues of me, mounting the telemetrie system, so it is all coming together, or just not? At least it shows us what the hell is look like.
Picture 2 I still have one of my own telemetrie systems as used 30 years ago in a glider, 108 Mc.

Post 860 I already did write I did have a strange feeling, the post about Werner von Brown. I think there is more to show,
at least some more explanation about the impact of all and the museum you still can see the telemetriesystem of the Flopxxx.

So more to come!

Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,
There is more between Heaven and Earth and I will show.

The Flop video is made of the launch of the Vanguard TV3 on 6 December 1957 you did see and after that worldwide often named”: “Flopnik” or “Kaputnik”.
The telemetrie system did survive and is still in the USA and displayed at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.
(108 Mc for telemetry I did use also myself because we did have our FM radio’s 78 – 108 Mc)

There is also to show another interesting fact, the Vanguard 1 (17 March 1958) is known as the “WORLDS OLDEST SATELLITE STILL IN ORBIT”.

Are there more similarities?
That’s only possible to show in a timeline of the Vanguard and the Taurus and the story is still going on yesterday (news)!!!

1957
TV1 (May) TV2 (October) successful vehicles, for me to compare with Orion, tail wheel (world champ 1960) and nose wheel (vehicles?).

1958
TV3 FLOP (also the TV3 backup 5 February 1958) so Flopniks and for me Ed Kazmirski’s Flop

1958
Vanguard 1 (TV4) Successful launch of the “World Oldest Satellite still in Orbit” to compare with the successful launch of the first “Oldest Taurus on Earth” (April/Mei 1962).

After the Vanguard 1 several Vanguards did follow, just as the Taurusses.

1958 (April/September)

TV5, SLV1, SLV2, SLV3, all Flopniks, to compare with all the unsuccessful Taurus clones.

1959
Vanguard 2 Successful, 17 February 1959 to compare with the commercial Taurus (Top Flite)
SLV 5 (April) and SLV6 (June) again Flopniks, (proportional version of commercial Taurus etc.)

1959 September
Vanguard 3 (September) successful to compare with the Simla the latest successful Taurus of Ed Kazmirski. Never forget Ed did tell us there only were 3 successful Taurusses in the development scheme so this is the latest news we can read:

4 March 2011, Taurus XL failed, “Floprus”.

More to come

Cees

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

OK, in post #901, you have superimposed a thinly disguised picture of my scratch-built King Altair into one page of the Simla article....that's great, and very creative. Exactly what are you trying to say, it seems to be a very "sophisticated" riddle? Whatever it is, I don't think it's complementary...of course I could be wrong, (but I don't think so).

Duane

Taurus Flyer

I did use the page as a 3D exercise.
I have copied the image on a piece of brown paper, used as a coloring picture and put it back on the original page.
It is exactly same plane with a different color,

Cees

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Duane
I did use the page as a 3D exercise.
I have copied the image, (of the Simla) on a piece of brown paper, used as a coloring picture and put it back on the original page.
It is exactly same plane with a different color,...Cees
So now you are saying that the modified King Altair built from plans is the same thing as our Simla, only enlarged? Do you really believe that conclusion based on your "3-D excercise", or are are you deliberately saying things you know aren't true...which is it? Have you proven this new theory with the same amount of authority and certainty that you prove your Wester Taurus is the "Oldest Taurus of Earth"? If your "3-D excercise" proves the King Altair and Simla are the same, then you may not want to juse that method again...it isn't trustworthy. I gave you and your methods more credibility, and thought you might have been able to improve on what we have done, but if you really believe what you just said, I am losing faith in youir methods and your conclusions.

Don't play games and try to deceive people. In case you've missed it, all the Simla measurements we used came directly from the top view photo...no other airplane was ever consulted or used as a model for the Simla. Jeff, Burkhard and the others are far too smart to be tricked into believing any other conclusion than the correct one.

You are the "one man show"...no doubt about that.

Duane

Taurus Flyer

Gents,
I already did have a compare picture, original and colored example to archive.
As normally I use one line length (1479 pixel) for all positions to show the similarity of the both pictures.

Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,

"Sense and simplicity".

Classic pattern flying and the transmitter for the Simla.

I already did show the case and sticks and HF unit for the Simla transmitter. picture 1
Our Dutch company “Philips Semiconductors Linear Products” does make the IC NE5044. Programmable 7 channel RC encoder, see pdf. attachment 2
The print for the transmitter, also with a second IC, LM324, quad operational amplifier for special purposes if needed. picture 3

Cees

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Any similarity is purely incidental. I've been told in the past the King Altair looks like a Taurus. The Simla looks a lot like a large Taurus, (but more refined). Vic Husak and Ed were friends, and talked and compared ideas regularly. Not one measurement came from the King Altair, that I promise you. If you're trying to prove something, (that the King influenced our Simla), it's just a coincidence.

Truth of the matter is that your Simla is going to look very close to ours...there probably will be a few small differences, but nothing major. We have already noticed a couple more changes we'd like to make, and if your efforts show the need for further changes,, (and you share them with us), we'll change ours again. The object is to get the most accuurate Simla possible. We did the best we could do with what was available to us a year ago. New, more sophisticated software has recently become available to us that we didn't have back last spring when the measurements were made and the plan was drawn.

Your Simla should very closely resemble both of these planes as well. A careful examination would need to be taken to show the differences, whatever they may be between the Simlas. I don't believe there will be any obvious, glaring differences between them other than perhaps a small difference in fin height.

Duane

Taurus Flyer

Gents,
It was a subject in one of the other threads, plastic film, cermet or wire wound resistors for the stick potentiometers.
As shown in the datasheet of the NE 5044, but also far as I know all my stick potentiometers are wirewound.
Main reason, linearity and temperature. The encoder I show has an overall accuracy of about 0,3 %. I personal would not combine that with a plastic film potentiometer.
The sticks of my Multiplex transmitter are 30 years old, gimbals principle and still in excellent condition.
I think it is whatever you want, I prefer wirewound.
Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,
The Cream Puff already is growing like expanding foam, Great Stuff. First study pencil drawing maybe soon in this theatre.
Extra obstacle, the Cream Puff does have elliptical wings and for that we need a method to draw the ribs. Of course I can calculate them with the use of my Excel program and print them, but, always interesting to show some of the classic methods.
Picture 1, the thread method we can read in the book: “Treatise on mensuration with the Compass and Ruler in Line, Planes, and Whole Bodies .”(1525)
The thread method is originally a 3D method, of course we can use it for 2D.
Funny, the draughtsman is busy with the wing ribs 400 years earlier than the first flight! Alright, but, the method was there! (Did some photo shopping in the original picture of the lute!)
Second picture, the later graphical method with the use of a template, picture of an article in the Dutch magazine “Vliegwereld”, date 1953. It is also possible to do calculations of the distances with the use of a slide rule instead of that template. I still have my slide rule.
More to come.
Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,

First step to the pencil drawing, determining of the POV of the pictures just as with the crate picture.
To archive, one example of the pictures. This picture made just before “take off”.
I have to make a picture of the Taurus with this same POV location, to have a fast check to know if the procedure was alright, taking in account the differences of dimensions of the both planes.
More to come.
Cees

CAPT. DAN

My Feedback: (64)

Taurus Flyer,

One of the older members of \our club was kind enough to scratch build me one of ED's Orions this

past fall and I have yet to maiden flight was has turned out to be a remarkable pattedrn type plane.

While not as large as the original Taurus, there is alot of Taurus in the Orions design . I was even able to retrofit

an old time fox 60 in it. To the question at hand, are there any quirks or habits that I need to be alert to during

my first flight ?

Thanks
Capt. Dan

Taurus Flyer

Kapt. Dan.
Orion,
Try to find a nice surface to fly off the first times, grass not too long. The rolling capacity of the main wheels is important to keep the track, especially to control the takeoff. I always start with low power to get the plane rolling and after that controlled more power while accelerating. Important to keep the track with rudder. When speed increase the control with rudder is better. This way doing it nearly cannot go wrong. If the direction isn’t enough controlled, abort the start and do it again. It is interesting to learn the tail dragger for that. There are some reasons the tail dragger does want to turn to the left while starting. Important to experience this and not to pull up the plane with too less speed. If the rolling of the wheels is bad, try some bigger wheels the first time!
When the speed is enough the plane will lift the tail and normally, with no or a little bit "up", takes off itself. Safe because the speed is much enough above stall speed. Do not climb to fast, important when the engine quits. If there is any engine problem after takeoff, push the elevator a little to maintain speed in a glide. If there is room enough simple glide back to the ground. Both Taurus and Orion are fine gliders keeping the speed a little above stall speed. If it is needed to turn in the glide back try to make the curve as big as possible and keep an eye on the speed.
When the Orion has the original “frise” ailerons as on the drawing, the turns are smooth and exact. Very nice to fly with.
Good luck with the flights and if there is still something to ask, please do!

Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,

Pictures of downwash. Facts are interesting to know and sometimes research we can use for design of gliders or other pattern planes. Think about the vertical position of the stabilizer.

Also because I do want to know where to find a good mounting position for an angle of attack sensor I did make some flights and pictures.
Cotton threads I did mount in the centre of the left side wing and also on the left side wingtip. Wingtip threads to use as reference of the undisturbed airstream. As expected the wingtip threads were often influenced by the vortex.

As already shown in an earlier thread the downwash is detectable far behind the stabilizer, see the pictures and proved also for our pattern Taurus.
All flights are made low speed, 40 a 45 km/h
I did draw additional threads also with colored lines above or under the real threads in situations of bad visibility.
Picture 2 the orange line is horizontal reference.
Picture 4 the vortex is visible.



More to come,
Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,

I did receive more detailed pictures to show the results of "downwash" flights.
Next step is measure the downwash angle related to speed, also interesting for the Simla in the future. Pitot tube to measure speed is visible in the second photo.
Instrument to measure the downwash is "under development" now. Thes pictures will help me to find the right location.

More to come,

Cees

Taurus Flyer

Preparing the Oldest Taurus on earth for the first flight, exchanging the engines.

The Oldest Taurus on Earth was designed for the Webra 6,5 ccm but I also do have the Os Max now I did show in the past.
All I have to do is, make the new threaded mounting holes in the plate (picture 1) and change the position for fuel line feed through and the throttle lever cable.

As told about the K & B (9,1 oz, 258 gram) and the VECO (11,8 oz, 334 gram) in the past, also the Os Max (254 gram) isn’t as heavy as the Webra (294 gram).
Of course the plain bearing of the OS Max instead of ball bearings, is one of the reasons for less weight but also the Os Max single needle carburetor is less bulky.

More to come,

Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,

A study picture of the Taurus related model airplane by Vic Husac. The "Cream Puff", designed in the same period as the Simla and released e few months earlier.
The original photograph was made during the Toledo Show February in 1965.
The picture is the result of the combined reconstructing process with the use of all the photographs I have.
All dimensions of the plane are known now, so I already did start making the new construction drawings.

BTW, I did measure the angle of attack on moment the picture was made of post 911 of the Top Flite Taurus, 10 degrees. The Taurus didn’t stall, was kept on lowest flyable speed by the (cruise) controller on horizontal level flight. We see the downwash still visible a distance behind the stabilizer (red dash), after that going up-(wash) probably as result of the position of the elevator.

I also did make an "on board" movie but vibrations on mounting position of the camera (wingtip) is a problem (to solve?).

More to come.
Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,

I did download one of the on board videos with some exercises of my replica of the preproduction Top Flite Taurus
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A38TJzvAGtg

Some loops, rolls , Inverted flight, top head and double immelmanns are shown. It’s remarkable the little video camera , mounted on the wingtip, survived the vibrations during this test flight.
Flight was made with crosswind on a the short strip. That was the reason I did shut off the engine and use the brakes end of flight visible by down elevator.

Cees

AndyKunz

Those little keychain cameras are pretty neat, aren't they?!?! I have 4 of them and will position using Velcro at various places on a model (all at the same time) and get various perspectives of a flight. It makes it quite enjoyable. But as you see, they don't like white very much (cheap CMOS).

There are now inexpensive ($70-100) DV cameras with image stabilization. They do a LOT better job, but I can't afford to fly 4 at once (nor can the airframe carry the weight/drag).

Andy

Taurus Flyer

Andy,

Reconstruction of history is all about facts and prove them, no matter how.
The low pass pictures do show us the downwash during normal flight, now I also want to kn/show the situation inverted of course, but it’s too risky to make a low speed low pass, that was why I did some flights with a borrowed camera on the wing. I did have the permission to use this camera but I still doubt if I can make useable recordings. The distance is too short and so there are no much reference points to show.

For my own use I am developing a video transmitter which is already working. See the picture. I prefer a video link above an on board camera and recording, also for the future it’s universal. I do have several cameras which I can use for the link. Still have to make the recordings of the nose wheel break of the Oldest Taurus on Earth for example but also the Simla will be interesting to show in the future, maybe even FPV.

More to come,

Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,
Didn’t see my last post so I try an update.
The video transmitter I show I already do use for a while, only adding a sound/data transfer possibility for research.

See : http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8908419

The picture of the invisible post was the sound carrier oscillator coupled with the main oscillator, second try out, the coupling with the modulator of the antennae amplifier (yellow oval and arrow).
As visible in post 519 the mounting requirements are already there for the Top Flight Taurus for this video link.
More to come
Cees

Taurus Flyer

Gents,

It is just like developing the earliest Orion and Taurus by Ed Kazmirski.
Second solution of the video link, coupling the 5.5 MHz sound carrier oscillator with the video modulator, wasn't the best one. There was too much cross talk of the frame rate of the video signal in the audio channel.
Back to the first option, and reassemble also of all components of the transmitter for a better shielding of the mainparts.
Next step is field testing under the centre line of the Taurus. Range check, recordings with the Sony CCD-V100E Video 8 (Classic !)etc.
Cees

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

I ALMOST HATE TO GIVE "LIFE" TO YOUR THREAD by commenting, but you tend to make comments and draw conclusions from them that are highly misleading, or simply wrong. Twice you said the "Cream Puff" was older than the Simla, and you went so far as to say the "Cream Puff" was the "...father of the Simla" and the "Cream Puff" is the only plane of Vic's that has anything to do with the Taurus line.

The truth of the matter is that the Cream Puff and Simla were being built AT THE SAME TIME. The first picture of the Simla (undated) was taken in Ed's living room for a glue ad, but we don't know when the plane was finished. The first dated picture was May of 1965. The Cream Puff picture was taken in February of 1965. It is pretty obvious that both planes were new, and probably unflown, and planes take months to build...therefore they were being built at the same time, and it appears Vic's plane was finished first....that's all...but not that far ahead of the Simla.

Since Vic and Ed were friends, and both wanted to build large-scale pattern planes, they probably discussed the idea back and forth, (along with others), and each built their own version of a large-scale pattern plane. Both planes incorporated ideas they were discussing at the time. Remember Les Fruh, and Curt Dimberg were also building large scale planes at the same time, so there were a large number of them "on the building board" at the same time. The winter in Chicago is good for building and little else...all these planes were the "fruit" of that winter's building.

From the above, it is OBVIOUS that the notion of the Cream Puff being the "father of the Simla" is a load of "bull"...the planes were contemporaries, and were built based on the same ideas being discussed among a bunch of flying buddies living in the same area and brainstorming among themselves. Each had his own version, and each put his own "stamp" on his own plane.

Duane