i have a .61 RF piped ultra sport that weighs 9 lbs. it flies fine. knife edge is weak though. it will fly hands off either side up, lands slow, plenty of vertical. i let my router (among other things) make up the difference with the extra retract weight. CF rods save an oz alone over metal rods. so i just go with what i want. i'm willing to go to the extra work to have it.

david

Ed,

just a comment about the fuel tank position. If you take a look at the Tipo plans, you'll see where the tank was intended to go. The fuse height of Dick's design is such that in addition to the 16 oz tank above the nose gear you might also be able to get an air tank or battery there as well. Putting the tank behind would only be desirable if you are keen on minimizing CG shift by placing the tank closer to the CG. In the Tipo it is rather complicated to put your tank here without running into radio gear installation problems. The only way I see this as practical (perhaps) is if one used a cylindrical fuel tank placed in the canopy area between the wing LE and the CG along with a pumped engine.

Terry, of course it is his plane but there's nothing quite like voicing strong opinions! It gets the juices flowing... . Come to think of it, if I were to move the height of the stab because I decided to build a flat one (but then it just wouldn't be an original DH Tipo), I would install it no lower than the same height above the thrust line as the wing is below it. Just some more food for thought MJ.

Cheers, David.

I owned the Aerocomposites fiberglass and foam Tiporare. This version was out long before the Tower version. Not that that means anything important.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything, David. I'm just making comments here and there of how I see things. Others do not have to agree at all.

I know that many of the posters in this forum are far more experienced in pattern competition than I am. Surely, it wouldn't take much experience at all to go beyond my level.


Ed Cregger

"Terry, of course it is his plane but there's nothing quite like voicing strong opinions!"

Yeah, David. That's what I'm doing too. Seems that after building my first couple of kits to 'spec', I started bashing/modding them. There is enough pressure on newbies to 'follow the instructions' to the letter. Including the hardware mentioned in the instruction booklet/on the plan! I just want to keep them thinking about how they might like to make it a little (or a lot) different. Personalized.

Terry in LP

Excellent, we're all on the same page then.

A little stimulating exchange to get some different thoughts going. I know you're also fond of that Ed.

Prexactly! I've been known to play Devil's Advocate occasionally.

It's amazing how much even the most experienced person can pickup from others during these exchanges.

I was fortunate in having several pattern mentors over the years that readily shared their secrets with me. Bruce Geller (RIP) and Syd Clement early on provided me with lots of important tips after they struggled through the process the hard way. Later on I became friends with George Asteris (Omen) and he too was generous with his knowledge and techniques.


Ed Cregger

Well i got firewall glued in and mounted the m.m. to the f.w. and engine bolted down for now. The plans said the nose already had some right thrust built in so i added 1 degree of down, that can always be taken out with a couple of washers.

*edit sorry that they came out so big, and BTW i will use an FAI spinner

MJ,

I assume that you got the nose gear retract holes drilled - if you're going to use one - of course you are...

It can be a little tricky to get a drill in there once your FW is glued in place. Worse case scenario you might have to make a larger rectangular opening for the gear and access the FW through that slot. Alternatively, you could plan on a tank plate mounted gear. I'd recommend you "build this" before you glue the tank plate in place.

Cheers, David.

No, i figured id do that when the retracts arrive, im pretty sure i can figure out a way to manage that(i hope) You are very right about the tank plate.

Very Kewl!!

MJ,

I see. Well, I would consider going with a belly mounted gear in that case. It should be much easier than wrestling to mount a FW nose gear. As you've seen the tank plate is 1/16" ply so you'll want to beef it up at the FW junction. I would use 1/4" ply and just keep an eye out for where your tank plate needs to go in order to clear the 2" nose wheel. Note that the fuse bottom fore of the wing LE is slanted so this distance is not necessarily 2" and change. Then you'll need to space the gear from the 1/4" ply in order to make sure the strut spring clears the fuse bottom.

... maybe obvious things but since I'm also building a pair, I thought it might help.

David.

Thanks for pointing all that out David, i never thought of a belly NG retact, much easier than a FW mounted one i think..... the more i study the fuse the more it seem doable

Just thought I would throw this in.....

My tipo(s) had unusual wheels. I used Associated RC12 (car) front wheels for the nose gear (and on one plane for all 3 gear). This in a time when the MK and Tetra wheels were pretty popular.

The mounted tire is about 2" diameter and ran on a bronze bushing. But must importantly it is about 1" wide. Twice as wide as the Tetra wheel. It worked GREAT on grass ....... wider is better - it litteraly floated over the grass - visualize more like a snow mobile track than a plow sheer. On pavement, it was perfect. Fit inside of the Tipo and Tipo 750 nose was just right too.

The wheel did not bounce. No give to it at all. If you hit hard on landing, yeah, the plane would react and bounce/skip. But if you floated in the landing, the plane would just glue itself to the runway rather than potentially hopping (tetra wheels glued pretty well too - give, not bounce).

That particular wheel may be hard to find, but I think there are some others out there that are similar.

flywilly might remember my one Tipo with the car wheels on all 3 legs I also experimented with a bunch of toe-in on the main gear with that plane. Mains had tires toed-in appx 2 - 3 deg each side. Several reason.

Ground tracking - worked great for that.... straight as an arrow. Toe-in tends to force the nose to center itself on the ground track. That tracking was also in part to.....

Braking for take-off - toe-in created a little rolling resistance forward but the wheels were free to move. I'm sure a few of you reading this use to go nuts trying to get the plane to sit still on the runway for takeoff now and then (fear the low idle and the pipe loads up). This solved that problem - it just stayed still even with a click or two of extra throttle trim. It also mean that the plane started rolling a few clicks of throttle above idle - so there was clean airflow over the rudder during take-off roll right from the start. No bobbles or nose steer corrections - it just went straight. The rudder did most of the ground steering.

Braking at landing - again, helped keep a smooth, straight roll-out line. Often enough, it kept it out of the run-off area on shorter paved strips.

All of the above were particular advantages in a cross wind.

Of course this is not something everyone should rush off and pursue, but it worked out well for me. Only disadvantage was that it tended to wear out the little RC12 tires a bit when flying off hard surfaces. Also, its not something you want to do on a tail dragger.

Bob