Retracts
11-17-2008 | 06:15 PM
#3
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Retracts
Cool!
Glad you decided to build it. Although I'd have to agree with Mike's Spring Air recommendation, you might want to consider electric retracts. Back in the day, Kraft Multicon's were the thing to use. Today there is at least one brand if not more but the company name escapes me. A little web seach will turn them up.
Yea, on a trike system of this size avoid mechanicals if you can.
Cheers, David.
Glad you decided to build it. Although I'd have to agree with Mike's Spring Air recommendation, you might want to consider electric retracts. Back in the day, Kraft Multicon's were the thing to use. Today there is at least one brand if not more but the company name escapes me. A little web seach will turn them up.
Yea, on a trike system of this size avoid mechanicals if you can.
Cheers, David.
11-17-2008 | 06:39 PM
#4
RE: Retracts
I'd rather not go with air retracts, too complicated and such little room to work with. Its definitely gonna be mechanical, i was just wondering what brand of mechanicals would be best if the bargain priced hobbicos were sufficient, or the pricier Dave Browns. I will make it a tail dragger so i dont have to worry about the nose gear
11-17-2008 | 07:00 PM
#5
RE: Retracts
dude, Spring Airs are the bomb!! air up, spring down. very well made retracts. and well worth the effort to install tricycle gears. please make sure you want to go with a tail dragger design. nothing is sexier than a pattern plane on tricycle retracts. in fact we might ban you here if you go with a taildragger build[X(]
trust me, everyone prefers tricycle gear here.
david
trust me, everyone prefers tricycle gear here.david
11-17-2008 | 07:25 PM
#6
RE: Retracts
what model of spring airs would you get, there are like 20 different models and am not familiar with any of them
edit i do agree trike look sexxxy of that era of pattern ships
edit i do agree trike look sexxxy of that era of pattern ships
11-17-2008 | 07:35 PM
#7
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From: Oakdale, CT
RE: Retracts
I would definately go with the Dave Brown units. I think that they will be much more durable that the Hobbico gears. I got mine directly from Dave's factory when I was in Ohio. The biggest thing about spring airs are that the gear will always come down with no air pressure which is good but wings with retracts sticking down are a PAIN in the BUT to store without hanger rash. As Dave Brown used to say "If the radio works the gear works, if the radio doesn't work it doesn't matter". DB's nose gear is really nice to work with also. Withb the small powerful servos available I would just use 2 servos.
Peace
Mark O
Peace
Mark O
11-17-2008 | 07:37 PM
#8
Senior Member
RE: Retracts
The next time I need retracts, I'm going to consider these http://www.lado-tech.net/ . Don't have any personal experience with them, but it surely looks like a simple install.
11-17-2008 | 08:23 PM
#9
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Retracts
A tail draggin Tipo !@%$ [:-] [:'(] [:@]
I'm just going to have to say it... that would be a sad day [
]
However, if you really want to go mechanical, source out a nice set of MK's. Of course, it would also pay homage to DB to go with a set of his retracts given that the Tipo was really put on the international scene by him. You shouldn't have a problem mounting a flat nose gear servo between the gear and the wheel under the fuel tank plate. The other servo would of course go in the wing center with dual outboard aileron servo's as recommended by Will in your other thread.
I'm just going to have to say it... that would be a sad day [
]However, if you really want to go mechanical, source out a nice set of MK's. Of course, it would also pay homage to DB to go with a set of his retracts given that the Tipo was really put on the international scene by him. You shouldn't have a problem mounting a flat nose gear servo between the gear and the wheel under the fuel tank plate. The other servo would of course go in the wing center with dual outboard aileron servo's as recommended by Will in your other thread.
11-17-2008 | 08:27 PM
#10
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Retracts
ORIGINAL: airbusdrvr
The next time I need retracts, I'm going to consider these http://www.lado-tech.net/ . Don't have any personal experience with them, but it surely looks like a simple install.
The next time I need retracts, I'm going to consider these http://www.lado-tech.net/ . Don't have any personal experience with them, but it surely looks like a simple install.
What might be interesting about these is that they may work even if your radio doesn't! You never know, your Tipo might just decide to settle nicely on its gear somewhere across the border.
11-17-2008 | 08:47 PM
#11
RE: Retracts
as for the spring air retracts, you can easily make a retainer clip to secure the retracts after retracting. 8178's Blue Angel build has an actual photograph. and the quick connects between the wing and fuse will hold air plenty long.
david
david
11-18-2008 | 07:15 AM
#15
My Feedback: (17)
RE: Retracts
You might want to give Spring Air a phone call at (321) 728-9002. For the Tiporare you will want the set that has the firewall mount. The quick disconnect for the connection to the wing is small an extra cost. The Tiporare has plenty of room inside the fuselage for the air tank, etc.
11-18-2008 | 07:50 AM
#16
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From: Carrollton
RE: Retracts
Gentlemen,
I do have experience with the Lado retracts and all I can say is they are of awesome quality super easy to install & connect and a reasonable price. However they have two minor drawbacks. The first is that they a little on the heavy side, but if you consider you don't need an air tank and plumbing fittings or a retract servo with hardware the additional weight may be offset although the added weight will be out in the wings. The second drawback is only temporary and that is they don't have a trike gear setup yet. I have been in contact with Doug at Lado on more than one occassion and he is working on them right now. You can go on their web site and sign up on their email list and you will be sent updates on new items as well as the availability of their other products.
MetallicaJunkie, keep us posted on your progress, I for one have always loved the looks of the Tipo...
I do have experience with the Lado retracts and all I can say is they are of awesome quality super easy to install & connect and a reasonable price. However they have two minor drawbacks. The first is that they a little on the heavy side, but if you consider you don't need an air tank and plumbing fittings or a retract servo with hardware the additional weight may be offset although the added weight will be out in the wings. The second drawback is only temporary and that is they don't have a trike gear setup yet. I have been in contact with Doug at Lado on more than one occassion and he is working on them right now. You can go on their web site and sign up on their email list and you will be sent updates on new items as well as the availability of their other products.
MetallicaJunkie, keep us posted on your progress, I for one have always loved the looks of the Tipo...
11-18-2008 | 10:30 AM
#17
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: Retracts
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie
I'd rather not go with air retracts, too complicated and such little room to work with. Its definitely gonna be mechanical, i was just wondering what brand of mechanicals would be best if the bargain priced hobbicos were sufficient, or the pricier Dave Browns. I will make it a tail dragger so i dont have to worry about the nose gear
I'd rather not go with air retracts, too complicated and such little room to work with. Its definitely gonna be mechanical, i was just wondering what brand of mechanicals would be best if the bargain priced hobbicos were sufficient, or the pricier Dave Browns. I will make it a tail dragger so i dont have to worry about the nose gear
If you can find some, MK retracts are considered the best mechanical retracts. Not being able to find them, I opted for the Dave Brown retracts. They were used by quite a few champions back in the day and were originally sold by Pro Line, IIRC.
I don't like retracts that stick out of the wing when the pressure is off (pneumatic). Clips can be fabricated to overcome that problem, but I really like the lighter weight of the mechanical system. And this comes from a Rhom-Air diehard.
Firewall mount retract nose gears are a PITA for those with medium to large sized hands. Also, some models (Phoenix 8) are really crowded. Sure, you can get the nose gear in there, but what about the fuel tank? Gotta have that too, you know. 8>
Ed Cregger
11-18-2008 | 11:38 AM
#18
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Retracts
The Tiporare was designed in such a way that it was never conceived to ride as a tail dragger. The nose of the fuse (glass or wood) is designed to accommodate the gear, whether FW or belly mounted, nicely and retract fully into the fuse without cutting into the wing as in a Phoenix for example. Further, it is also designed in such a way that by placing the fuel tank floor just above the gear, your tank ends up positioned at the right height.
The tank floor can be installed and reinforced in order to allow the installation of belly mounted gear from underneath for those who have difficulty accessing bolts from within the wing cavity. Of course this may necessitate a larger opening under the nose to insert the retract unit unless you drop the gear in from the wing cavity.
Finally, the Tipo has a stab with 4-3/8" of anhedral. Put a tail wheel under the rudder and you might want to consider putting wing tip skids under your stab tips as well
I find it difficult to justify modifying the gear design of an airplane because it "weighs less" - I'm sure Dick Hanson would be shaking his head on that thought.
However, Extra's and Yak's don't look bad as tail draggers. In fact, a tail dragging Tipo is akin to an Extra with a nose wheel sticking out of its cowl. Make it retractable and it will tuck away nicely between the Pitts muffler exhausts. The wheel can be used as a brake on the drive washer to drop RPM's when needed.
The tank floor can be installed and reinforced in order to allow the installation of belly mounted gear from underneath for those who have difficulty accessing bolts from within the wing cavity. Of course this may necessitate a larger opening under the nose to insert the retract unit unless you drop the gear in from the wing cavity.
Finally, the Tipo has a stab with 4-3/8" of anhedral. Put a tail wheel under the rudder and you might want to consider putting wing tip skids under your stab tips as well
I find it difficult to justify modifying the gear design of an airplane because it "weighs less" - I'm sure Dick Hanson would be shaking his head on that thought.
However, Extra's and Yak's don't look bad as tail draggers. In fact, a tail dragging Tipo is akin to an Extra with a nose wheel sticking out of its cowl. Make it retractable and it will tuck away nicely between the Pitts muffler exhausts. The wheel can be used as a brake on the drive washer to drop RPM's when needed.
11-18-2008 | 04:33 PM
#19
RE: Retracts
whooops on the firewall mount, never looked at a set of plans to know that. but don't fuel tanks simply go above the tank floor and the other type of nose gear simply bolt to the tank floor? i have 4 planes that are that way (or will be). how much room do you need for a retract (and a tank)? i can only see a very slim fuse not having enough room for both.
david
david
11-18-2008 | 05:00 PM
#20
RE: Retracts
ORIGINAL: doxilia
The Tiporare was designed in such a way that it was never conceived to ride as a tail dragger. The nose of the fuse (glass or wood) is designed to accommodate the gear, whether FW or belly mounted, nicely and retract fully into the fuse without cutting into the wing as in a Phoenix for example. Further, it is also designed in such a way that by placing the fuel tank floor just above the gear, your tank ends up positioned at the right height.
The tank floor can be installed and reinforced in order to allow the installation of belly mounted gear from underneath for those who have difficulty accessing bolts from within the wing cavity. Of course this may necessitate a larger opening under the nose to insert the retract unit unless you drop the gear in from the wing cavity.
Finally, the Tipo has a stab with 4-3/8" of anhedral. Put a tail wheel under the rudder and you might want to consider putting wing tip skids under your stab tips as well
The Tiporare was designed in such a way that it was never conceived to ride as a tail dragger. The nose of the fuse (glass or wood) is designed to accommodate the gear, whether FW or belly mounted, nicely and retract fully into the fuse without cutting into the wing as in a Phoenix for example. Further, it is also designed in such a way that by placing the fuel tank floor just above the gear, your tank ends up positioned at the right height.
The tank floor can be installed and reinforced in order to allow the installation of belly mounted gear from underneath for those who have difficulty accessing bolts from within the wing cavity. Of course this may necessitate a larger opening under the nose to insert the retract unit unless you drop the gear in from the wing cavity.
Finally, the Tipo has a stab with 4-3/8" of anhedral. Put a tail wheel under the rudder and you might want to consider putting wing tip skids under your stab tips as well
i didnt think of that issue, thanks for pointing that out, im glad my Tipo is still a virgin
looks like im gonna trike this one with retracts....... one major issue besides the tamk and mounting the retracts is the steering, when the nose gear is retracted how is this going to affect the steering cable, and where im i gonna mount all of the servos one for steering and one to retract the nose gear? all this is new to me ive never done this before..... only on a GP Patriot Arf and all the servo mounts were pre made
11-18-2008 | 06:14 PM
#22
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From: Transylvania,
LA
RE: Retracts
Some Tipos had less anhedral (even flat) and lower stabs. Skids on the stab and/or wing tips are a good idea anyway. If the engine is mounted inverted or 45 down/pipe to belly it uses the space/longer nose moment in the chin area. Having a nose gear can cost around a quarter pound in the AUW as well as added complexity. Unless a builder wants to make an exact (side mt. engine, excess anhedral, trike gear, 8+#) copy, there is no reason not to build it as he desires. After all. It is 'his' airplane.
Terry in LP
Terry in LP
11-18-2008 | 06:28 PM
#23
RE: Retracts
I'm not trying to jump on the trike gear bandwagon, but i would like to use the 4 3/8 anhedral that the manual calls for. Its not exactly set in stone so i can still change my nind if i want to. Notrhing has been ordered yet. TBH i'm asking all these questions and i havent even studied the rolled up plans yet. I'm sure i'll have pleanty of questions down the road when the work begins.
Thank you (every one) for your help [sm=thumbup.gif]
Thank you (every one) for your help [sm=thumbup.gif]
11-18-2008 | 06:29 PM
#24
RE: Retracts
ORIGINAL: 8178
Wonderful and a great choice! The Spring Air nose gear does not use a cable it uses a single push-pull cable. It is very easy to set up and again I found the firewall mount worked very nice on my Tiporare. Check my Tiporare build thread.
Wonderful and a great choice! The Spring Air nose gear does not use a cable it uses a single push-pull cable. It is very easy to set up and again I found the firewall mount worked very nice on my Tiporare. Check my Tiporare build thread.
I've seen your Blue Angel build threat, looks like im definitely gonna have to yur Tipo b.t.
11-18-2008 | 08:44 PM
#25
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: Retracts
ORIGINAL: doxilia
The Tiporare was designed in such a way that it was never conceived to ride as a tail dragger. The nose of the fuse (glass or wood) is designed to accommodate the gear, whether FW or belly mounted, nicely and retract fully into the fuse without cutting into the wing as in a Phoenix for example. Further, it is also designed in such a way that by placing the fuel tank floor just above the gear, your tank ends up positioned at the right height.
The tank floor can be installed and reinforced in order to allow the installation of belly mounted gear from underneath for those who have difficulty accessing bolts from within the wing cavity. Of course this may necessitate a larger opening under the nose to insert the retract unit unless you drop the gear in from the wing cavity.
Finally, the Tipo has a stab with 4-3/8" of anhedral. Put a tail wheel under the rudder and you might want to consider putting wing tip skids under your stab tips as well
I find it difficult to justify modifying the gear design of an airplane because it "weighs less" - I'm sure Dick Hanson would be shaking his head on that thought.
However, Extra's and Yak's don't look bad as tail draggers. In fact, a tail dragging Tipo is akin to an Extra with a nose wheel sticking out of its cowl. Make it retractable and it will tuck away nicely between the Pitts muffler exhausts. The wheel can be used as a brake on the drive washer to drop RPM's when needed.
The Tiporare was designed in such a way that it was never conceived to ride as a tail dragger. The nose of the fuse (glass or wood) is designed to accommodate the gear, whether FW or belly mounted, nicely and retract fully into the fuse without cutting into the wing as in a Phoenix for example. Further, it is also designed in such a way that by placing the fuel tank floor just above the gear, your tank ends up positioned at the right height.
The tank floor can be installed and reinforced in order to allow the installation of belly mounted gear from underneath for those who have difficulty accessing bolts from within the wing cavity. Of course this may necessitate a larger opening under the nose to insert the retract unit unless you drop the gear in from the wing cavity.
Finally, the Tipo has a stab with 4-3/8" of anhedral. Put a tail wheel under the rudder and you might want to consider putting wing tip skids under your stab tips as well
I find it difficult to justify modifying the gear design of an airplane because it "weighs less" - I'm sure Dick Hanson would be shaking his head on that thought.
However, Extra's and Yak's don't look bad as tail draggers. In fact, a tail dragging Tipo is akin to an Extra with a nose wheel sticking out of its cowl. Make it retractable and it will tuck away nicely between the Pitts muffler exhausts. The wheel can be used as a brake on the drive washer to drop RPM's when needed.
Don't forget that you not only have to have enough room behind the nose gear for a fuel tank, but you need to cushion that fuel tank in soft, uncompressed foam rubber with not one single point of the fuel tank touching any solid object in the compartment.
I used Rom-Air gear with the cable steering set up and never had a problem with it. When the nose gear is retracted, the cables simply go slack. There isn't enough slack present when retracted to permit the steering cables to get entangled with other moving parts. It was amazingly simple and very reliable. I've seen folks go into anxiety attacks worrying about this aspect of Rom-Air nose gear. Not to worry.
I was not supporting the idea of going to conventional landing gear, incidentally. The Tipo should have tricycle retracts. My weight savings comment was about mechanical versus pneumatic system AUW. Not conventional gear versus tricycle gear, just for the record.
Ed Cregger
