Would you recommend i use one good standard size servo such as the JR 8611, or 2 good JR mini metal gear servos with about 70ounces of torque per aileron?

2 good servos! Eliminate the torque rods [:'(]

good, i was hoping somebody would say that [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

861 would be way overkill even if you use only one. I think the ideal servo for the vintage pattern models is the JR 9411.

Just a thought here and I'm sure this will stir up noise; I wouldn't recommend the use of mini servos on control surfaces in this instance with a 10cc ship. My experience has been that while the torque and speed is more than adequate, the gear train mass is insufficient to dampen shock loads, say a sudden change of headwind or ground effects.

i will end up using (Mighty Mini)225mg Hitecs they produce over 60 ounces or torque and are reasonable priced.... this tipo will be flown for fun

Plus they produce just as much or more torque than the servos of the time

MJ,

I'd have to agree with Roary. You can use standard size servos without them costing too much. In fact, there are some great coreless analog servos (Futaba and Hitec). Mini is also a PITA to install in a foam wing. Why not just make things easier for yourself?

Keep in mind that although it is for fun, it still is a fast 60 sized pattern ship. Nothing worse than saving $10 on a servo just to see your aileron or, worse, elevator flutter and then rip off!

David.

Hello MetallicaJunkie

I did read your question and also your second post:


Why did you ask and why did you hope?
Because I prefer 1 servo for the ailerons.
1 original
2 cheap so better for you wallet
3 balancing of aerodynamic forces so better for the gear and current
4 no disturbing of the wing surface, less drag
5 no disturbing of the wingstiffness. (flutter?)
6 saver, one servo less and mounted on a better place, one connection less
7 dynamic no differences in throw by diffferences of speed
8 all mass in the centre of the plane better for maneuverability
9 better mounting place of the servo in bad weather conditions

Cees

i was just wanted to hear other people's opinions of the matter. You are right in just about every way and thank you for taking the time to point all of that out [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

MetallicaJunkie, It is oké .

In the period of the first proportional radio’s we all did use one servo for the ailerons and I still do.
There are no disadvantages, only things to know.
That’s is why I was wondered about the post of flywillie

Problem for most people is I think, “How do I make those long torque rods?�
And maybe it is interesting to know if there are problems with the long torque rods of the Tiporare.
Rigidity? Material?

So for you, to ask what pilots know about them, how did or do you make the torque rods for the Tiporare if you cannot buy them.
Succes with your Tipo.

Cees
,

actually, being able to separately balance ailerons, adjust throws, end points, etc. does have it's advantages.

david

David,

You will know, but for who is interested.
I did make a picture that also with one aileron servo we can adjust everything.

A angle pre adjust differential (separately), see the drawing of the plane!
B1 adjusting the aileron deflection rolling more left or right (both)
B2 fine adjust the differential (both)
B3 if you really want it, more differential on the left side aileron ( adjust also D and C)
C adjust neutral each aileron (separately)
D adjust deflection fine (separately, adjust also C neutral)
E adjust deflection common

A profit of the system is, after I did check the servo deflection LEFT is RIGHT, I can see the setting looking to the adjustments. This never changes.


Cees

if pattern competition was limited to 4 channel radios with trim and reverse controls only i would agree. but most of these guys have mixes that i can barely even understand. rudder to throttle, aileron to rudder, dual and triple rates and on and on, they even mix mixes together. most guys make their adjustments from their radios. highlighting an aileron endpoint and spinning a jog dial is the way it's done these days. any competitor out there want to compete with a $79 4 channel radio? or a 30 year old Kraft. with a more simpler SPA plane you have a point but even most of those guys take advantage of modern computer radios.

david

David,



Did you read this post?

Cees

-


The Hitec HS-225 servos are still fairly robust, when compared to micro and other mini servos. They should have plenty of strength, speed and mass to handle one aileron of a Tipo. I wouldn't want to go much larger than that in load with a 10cc engine, though.

Remember when we used torque rods and one 28 inch/oz. Kraft servo for moving two ailerons in a contest model? Wasn't all that long ago - or so it seems if you are an OF. <G>


Ed Cregger

1) True
2) Usually true, depending on the servos you use
3) Makes no difference to the gear or current use. The gears and motor see torque only, the bearings deal with the side loads imposed.
4) True
5) Balsa/foam wings are super stiff and almost never flutter. Control surfaces flutter though, and two servos gives a MUCH tighter, stiffer linkage that loads the aileron in the middle which makes the entire system stiffer. If cutting holes in your wing was a problem, the first thing to go would be wing mounted retracts.
6) I would argue two servos is safer because it adds redundancy. It does also double the things that can go wrong, however. YMMV
7) This is not much of an issue with quality servos and careful setup. It does require proper setup, though.
8) True. Not much of a difference, but true nonetheless.
9) True, but how often do you fly in bad weather? If it is raining, I go home.


Mark

I left the torque tubes in and ran two Fut 9209 servos in the center of the wing. The bird was clocked at 132MPH and never had any flutter. I set the diff. using channel 1 and 7 mixing. I set all my birds this way including my new T2A

Hello Ed,

“or so it seems if you are an OF. <G>�
What does that mean? Me?

Sometimes I look at the top of the page.
Am I really in the “Classic pattern forum�? Yes.

So, a picture of the centre section of my Taurus.
BTW, I do not use differential on the Ailerons but a calculating rudder mixer.
This aileron servo has a easy job, do not forget!

Cees

Mark,

Of course it is what you prefere but there are 2 arguments left:


1 servo versus 2 for the ailerons

Balancing of aerodynamic forces so better for the gear and current
Mark:
3) Makes no difference to the gear or current use. The gears and motor see torque only, the bearings deal with the side loads imposed.

My argument
Each servo of the two has to withstand a part of the lift force especially in situation with high G-forces (loops).
To keep his position each servo will use electrical power from the battery for that.
Not when using 1 servo.

Dynamic no differences in throw by diffferences of speed
Mark:
7) This is not much of an issue with quality servos and careful setup. It does require proper setup, though.

My argument
Servo 1 has to go against the lift force, servo 2 is helped by the lift force! See point 3



edp,

I think flutter is often generated by the wing when the construction isn't good, no D tube etc.
With the torque rod the rudder has a fixed postion even when the wing distorts, another difference!


Cees

3) Ah, I see what you are getting at. Fair enough, it will take power to do that. I don't know if that is a big issue with radio gear these days, but the servo will have to do more work.

7) That is a quality issue with the servos. Digitals are especially good at holding position against loads like this. Given the flexibility of the torque rod system, I bet the one aileron deflects noticeably less due to this loading difference, too.

As you say, it does boil down to which you prefer. I will take the stiff linkage and easy adjustability of dual servos while you prefer the simplicity of a torque rod system. And we will both be happy with our choices and the models will all fly just fine...

Mark

Mark,

Last argument:

With the torque rod the rudder has a fixed postion even when the wing distorts, another difference!

Added in my last post, but.
It is all what we want, but do it save.

Cees

That fun reading all the intillectual exchange of view... thnaks for all the input

MatallicaJunkie,

It is all for you, you did ask!
I did make a picture for you,
Difference in aileron position when you have flutter in the wing.
green with the torque rods, red with the two servo control.

Cees

yes i did see that, and thank you, i guess thats why RCU is #1 in my book, If i wouldn of know i would have saved the pop corn just for this thread. The Tipo did come with the brass tube things for the ailerons, looks complicated to install, but they already have the correct bends if im not mistaken

MetallicaJunkie,

This was one of my posts.
Did you have have had an answer on that? No!

People did forget the things we did learn in the past.
Install the torquelinks, show me pictures and I will help you.
You have the material I know how to install. I am busy with the same part of my Taurus.

When we are ready you have a good mechanism on a way your Tipo deserves, do not throw away those materials.

Cees