kingaltair

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If you want to compete with it, then do...In SPA you don't have to win, you can't change the history anyway, nor disprove what happened.....

.... it would be too boring to build one of three certain winners, and life is too short not to enjoy your modelling.....

Evan....I basically understand what you're saying, and it sounds good at first glance, but that's not what SPA is about. We do that more in the "Antique" class, (pre-1967). Still, SPA is basically about COMPETITION WITH vintage planes, with the planes as a means of competition. Everyone tries to do the best they can, and be as competitive as they can in that particular contest...it's not about trying to rewrite history...it's a competition among the pilots that day, (as it was back then). Even if you build a "certain winner", somebody still has to fly the plane and as Kaz said, competition is 65% pilot, and only 35% airplane. When I fly SPA, I want to have a plane that will give me the best chance of doing the best I can...it's not a "fun fly".

There is a little difference in perspective between us, but that's OK.

kingaltair

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Back to the TBX-1 Drawings:

First, I wanted to show you the three drawings that are a mystery to me; in fact, I'm not even certain which way is UP, (though I took my best guess) . BTW-They are essentially "life size" , (or a bit larger than), and just fit on to a standard size 11-1/2 X 8" scanner. My hope is there may be somebody out there, (UStik??), with concrete knowledge of what Tom might have been thinking at the moment. While not immediately understandable to me, they are still interesting to me for several reasons:

1) That Tom would choose to preserve these, (at all), with the rest of the drawings rather than being ultimately thrown away. This small glimpse into the design process is pretty unusual whether it means anything to the rest of us or not.

2) The use of geometry and other math equations. As an engineer, Tom actually USED a lot of the math I learned in the 9th grade and never used again having to do with tangents, etc. We see pi, (3.1416), in one of the equations. These equations show the plane was not just guesswork, but a lot of engineering went into its development. We see other figures drawn on some of the other sheets as well.

3) You see the calculations from all directions and on both sides of the velum.

To be fully open minded about the sketches, it certainly is possible these drawings might have nothing to do with the TBX-1 at all...but they were included with the other drawings, so most llikely the DO have something to do with it.

Speculations anyone??

Duane

WEDJ

IMHO, the first drawing is exploring the center of pressure and the hinge point possibilitites of the ailerons.

Second drawing, see photo attached.

Third drawing I think has to do with the landing gear and torque moments.

WEDJ

The photo is a "no-eye-deer"

Michaelj2k

I'll agree with Nic on the first picture, TB may have been looking at hinging and moments of inertia on the ailerons. I believe the second and third sketches may be for calculating bulkhead area, ((a "section cut") at a particular fuselage station. As far as the large circle, Tom may have just grabbed a reasonably clear sheet of paper and started sketching for some other idea.

Bottom line is who knows for certain except for those who may have had contact with Tom during the design/build process.

I think I recall seeing a mag picture caption of the airplane as the "Lateral Area Special"?

Either way, as a rookie to RC and 13 years old at the time, this airplane stood out among the others at the 1965 Nats. Funny I can't remember the others except this one.

kingaltair

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OK...but please explain the picture. "NO I DEER"...Oh man!!![:'(]

Duane

kingaltair

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You are correct that one caption DID call it the "Lateral Area Special". No other model I can think of at that time had that kind of lateral area....in the fin or anywhere else.

Now that I look at it, the large circle drawing may go with the drawing above, and MAY have something to do with the fuel tank, but who knows, (actually the tank is smaller than that though). The drawing has been preserved with everything else, and it's interesting to look at and speculate about.

The next drawing to discuss is my favorite...stay tuned.

Duane

AndyKunz

I think the first one is cross sections for the tapered rudder. The ailerons and elevator appear to be pretty close to constant chord. The rudder is the only surface with great chord changes.

Those might be ribs for a built-up rudder.

Andy

kingaltair

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Andy;

You may very well be right with that one.

When I posted these three drawings, I had real doubts as to whether or not we would get any closer to an answer about what these drawing are for...yet I still thought of them as interesting none the less. Looks like we are making some progress.

These are no doubt early sketches. It will be interesting to compare them to the final blueprint plan, (whenever I get it back), to see if they correspond to features in the final plan.

Are there more ideas, or more agreement with the ones already put out?

Michaelj2k

Now that I look at the first one again, I'll agree that Andy may have it right. Duane try this: take the mystery sketches and overlay them over the master drawing. You may find your answers.

Since these items were rolled up with the identifiable TBX-1 drawings, I'll bet that they are part of the package. If I was working on a particular drawing, I would certainly keep all the materials together when stored.

kingaltair

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I'd like to share a series of small sketches, (the same size as the last three above). This first one is my favorite drawing, and shows an "artist conception" of the TBX-1 by the designer. It was definitely done very early in the process, but this first drawing is immediately recognizable as the TBX. It is truly fascinating to me to "get inside the mind" (just a bit) of Tom, and see the evoltionary process begin.

Duane

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Duane and Tom Brett fans. Just putting a few Still pictures taken out of my DVD to prove again that Tom did fly the TBX-1. Col. Chuck Winter

kingaltair

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Let's look at the details of the TOP and SIDE views, while comparing them to the finished product. It took more than one viewing for for me to notice the changes between the concept sketch and the final TBX, (and like a "Where's Waldo", there may be additional details to discover).

The TOP VIEW is very much like the final TBX with the exception of the "side air inlet scoops", which have been erased, but you can still see the outline of them. It looks like Tom originally intended the TBX to look even MORE like a jet aircraft than the final version does. By this time Ralph Brook's "CRUSADER" had been published. Perhaps that model was at least a partial inspiration for the TBX-1.

kingaltair

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The SIDE VIEW reveals more detail changes, and confirms those we just talked about. The air inlets are shown both on the SIDE VIEW and the FRONT VIEW detail, (which was NOT erased). The finalized version IMHO, was a move toward more conventional, less complicated construction for the fuselage. The rounded jet fuse gives way to a boxier, easier to build fuse, yet the final look of the plane are not changed all that much...much of the fuselage is hidden under the swept wing.

In addition, a conventional fuel tank position was first planned, but then abandoned in favor of the rear location over the C/G. Doing this however presented some real problems to overcome as a pump would be necessary.

Notice also that originally there was a mock jet exhaust planned, with the rudder ending above it. The rudder was later extended down to the bottom of the fuselage. The original sketch shows the conventional two wheel main landing gear rather than the much more involved and ambitious 4-wheel arrangement of the final version. Remember not only were there four wheels, (which I don't believe I've ever seen on ANY pattern plane since), but Tom devised an electric braking system on two of the wheels, (perhaps when he learned the site of the 1965 NATS, with its concrete runways).

Retained in both the concept picture and the final version were the droop wingtips, the LAS, (lateral area special) outline with large vertical fin and the T-stabilizer, flowing into the partial bubble canopy. The wing to me at least, seems largely unchanged from the concept sketch all the way to the final aircraft.

kingaltair

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Thanks Chuck:

And it sure DOES look COOL in the air IMHO. While the stills are great, it doesn't quite capture the Victory Roll at the end.

Chuck, just an idea, would you post an additional 10 or so "stills" from that small segment of your video to give a better feeling for what the plane looks like from different perspectives? Please!!

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Duane, CAN DO... I am working on Part 2 of the DVD "Golden Era of Pattern Flying" and using a (Ken Burns effect) on many of the still photos. The (Ken Burns effect) gives you the feeling that a Still Photo is moving-Very COOL-. I will be using many of your pictures you took when visiting Helen Brett. The movie clip that I got through Alan Holmes "Movietone News" is a great addition to my Update. Your scans of the scratch work that Tom Brett did that look like the Elevator/Rudder are a little light in contrast. Could you scan again and then I will also try to darken them up. They are very valuable from a Historical point of view. Col. Chuck Winter

CHARLES WINTER

Hi Duane, I hope these "Stills" will help you. Col. Chuck Winter

kingaltair

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Yeah Chuck...that's great. Your footage may very well be the ONLY moving pictures of the TBX-1 in the air in existance. It's funny how people live in the moment never dreaming that footage like this could possibly be interesting to people 44 years later. I'm glad you had the foresight to go to the trouble, (and it IS a pain sometimes), to take the movies you did.[8D] I wish there were more.

Those of you who have not yet seen the video, it is well worth watching. I just sent one to Don Lowe.

Duane

Free Bird

As Duane knows, I have a very strong desire to build (try anyway) a TBX-1. These pics just add a lot of fuel to the fire!. Any update on the copying of the plans Duane? Also, in the last pic, did anybody notice Jim Kirkland in the background with what appears to be a Beachcomber.

FB

kingaltair

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I heard from Jeff that he is going to pick up the plans today. It will be interesting so see if they will be dark enough to build from, as the originals were somewhat faded.

Yes...it is neat to see Kirkland and his Beachcomber as well. Jim was the winner of that contest I believe. I have another picture of that plane from a "spectator's angle".

Duane

Free Bird

Very cool Duane! LMK when they come in. I have a friend in the printing business and has done several plans for me. So a light set shouldn't be a problem.

FB

kingaltair

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There is one more set of drawings included with the TBX-1 "scrolls", and I find them very interesting. These are a set of undated PAINT SCHEME possibilities for the new design. Although we don't know just when the drawings were made, it is certain it was done after the concept sketches, and after the final design was set. The drawings all show the final configuration of the TBX-1.

I remember when I was originally reading the RCM Flight Training Course II, which contained a plan of the "Miss Norway". Long before I even ordered the plans, I had tried out several color schemes for the plane, and knew just how it was going to look....someday. I don't know if Tom waited until the plane was built or not, but if he was anything like me, it may have been a temptation to "play with" paint schemes in advance in order to visualize what the final product would look like.

After a basic side view was drawn, Tom traced the outline for FOUR different renderings of the fuselage, but apparently only ONE drawing of the wing was necessary. One fuselage drawing, (that reminds me of the scheme he used on the Nimbus-2 in the article), may have been done at a different time since it is a different color. The other three were traced with a blue colored pencil.

Again, I find it interesting that Tom would preserve all these drawings, (including the ones he didn't use), over the years; it would seem he wanted a full record of the development process. I think it's fascinating that 45 years later we are able to share a little of his development process, by means of the concept sketches and color schemes. You can see the design he finally settled on.

Below is the basic (blank), sketch outline, with the four fuselage drawings and single wing drawing.

Enjoy

Duane

Trisquire

Reminds me of what I did in high school, instead of listening to the teachers.

Tom

Free Bird

Oops! Wrong thread.....

FB

AndyKunz

Duane,

We engineers keep a log book of EVERYTHING we do. Our employers need it in case of a patent (to show as early a date as possible, or to show "prior art" when contesting another's patent). I have TONS of code that will never be used, schematics, PCBs, everything. I have my log books from 20+ years ago, even stuff from before I graduated ... from high school! I use a log book every day as I encounter problems, writing down everything I can think of as a resolution, then check them off (and date them) for every item as I find it works or doesn't.

It's a very painful thing to throw that stuff away. I have boxes in my attic which mean nothing to anybody in my house, but they are log books, sketches, etc. When I moved out of my parents house, my mother cleaned up ("cleaned OUT" would be more accurate) a lot of my early airplane designs. What I wouldn't give to have them now!

It's silly, but I can tell you exactly what problem I was working on 20 years ago today. All I need to do is pull down a logbook off the shelf and flip to the right page.

Andy