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Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Old 08-31-2009, 01:50 PM
  #1  
crankpin
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Default Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

This fuselage has been sitting in the shop, waiting to get started. Goal today, get engine cut-out, OS61SF clearance. I am just getting started, may do a different paint scheme then the other's. Too many iron's in the fire right now, get back to this first of October, stay tuned, will go to finish.

Crank
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:18 PM
  #2  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Crank,
I'll be along for the ride. Have you flown #1 yet?

-Robert
Old 08-31-2009, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

hi Robert - No, not yet. I will maiden it and the Focus sometime in October. I have to get this P-6 built and out of the way. Just get it done, set it somewhere. Have to practice, keep two planes trimmed and ready, next contest in GA, 9/18, then two more after that. The SPA guy's I saw at Chattanooga, TN, are very good. Just compete and try to do better. This P-6 is an epoxy fuse, I may do the wings and stab, or have someone do the skins and aileron's. Glass all and paint. I still have the Vertigo fuselage and some other's sitting here. #1 attached.

Vince
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

hi Robert - No, not yet. I will maiden it and the Focus sometime in October. I have to get this P-6 built and out of the way. Just get it done, set it somewhere.


Hey Vince I'll help you out and take real good care of your P6 when your done. I'll even be so kind to start her up and get the dust off her daily!


DM
Old 08-31-2009, 03:22 PM
  #5  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

BTW..
Let us know what you think about that Rossi when you update us on that pretty bird!

DM
Old 08-31-2009, 08:32 PM
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

hey vince, where is the contest in GA?
Old 09-01-2009, 04:12 AM
  #7  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

David - Andersonville, GA, Sep't. 19 & 20. Some of us are staying at Americus. I am in the Holiday Inn Express, and I got the last room, as there is a bike convention of some kind, or a giant party, 500 biker's in town. That is what I was told.

Go to: www.seniorpattern.com, left column bottom is contest, click, then the schedule will come up, the flyer is there. It is at Hodge's Hobbie's field, www.hodgeshobbies.com. SPA Novice, Sportsman and Expert. I was told that Ron Chidgey is registered to fly Expert. I am going up on the 17th, Thursday, go to the field on the 18th, get some practice in.
As far as I know, there are room's at the Hampton Inn. Go to the contest, you will be glad you did. HotAtlanta SPA is after that one, Oct. 10 & 11, Paulding County, then down in Cocoa, FL, close to the Space Shuttle Launch Pad's, is the Dave Platt contest, 9/25-26-27. At that contest, old timer's on Friday, SPA on Sat. & Sun. I think some BPA is mixed into the program.

There is SPA activity for top novice meet at Alabaster, AL on Oct. 3, and a SPA Antique Class at Prattville, AL on Nov. 7 - 8.
If you are not a SPA member, easy to join on the senior pattern site. Send me your address, I will send you the latest newsletter, I have one copy, read it already. My e-mail: [email protected]

Vince
Old 09-01-2009, 05:14 AM
  #8  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Thx, Vince, i might make the one here in atlanta. i wished they had some BPA mixed in at all events.
Old 09-01-2009, 05:15 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Sorry, back to the Phoenix.
Old 09-02-2009, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Having problems with uploads and bellsouth, may have to switch to cable internet. I did some more work here, said I would wait until October, I lied. Keep walking past the shop, have to stop in, then I sit down, and start again.
Drilled beam mounts for 6:32 and BN's. Would use the #6 or #7 allen head screws, but this wood is 35 years old. The epoxy fuse is fine, no hairline cracks, no brittleness. Usually glass fuselage's this old have problems, the other finished Phoenix is that old, but no structual problems.
Drilled pilot holes, then drill to size to accept the 6:32's. I leave a little more clearance at spinner backplate then some other's I have seen. If more right thrust is needed, easy to shim the front of engine at mounting holes. Try to set in so spinner lines up, before final drill. Measure twice, drill or cut once. Picture's showing punch dimple before drill.
Next up when back at this, tank floor and figure firewall or belly mount NG, go with Spring-Aire's. I see a picture of Tom Scott's Wing Mfg. Phoenix V got in here, will leave it. Last picture is engine line-up of the other P-6.
Crank
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:57 PM
  #11  
crankpin
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Cut out for NG. Try to make minimum cut's. You can see some stress area's on this fuselage. It had been banged around, moved many times, before I got it. Little dings but easy fixes. Set in Firewall mount. You can see the lines at back, vertical up and down drawn in. These are each side of the wood beam mounts up front. There will be two blind nuts on each side of the beam in the engine compartment. The flange's on the Spring-Aire gear will be wide enough to allow the 632's to screw up to the plate, and flush.

Look at one gear flange, the red marked corner, it will come off, to fit gear to bottom of fuselage for clearance. I don't know how old these Spring-Aire's are, bought them off of e-bay some time ago. All you need is the tank, lines, control valve, some T's, connector's, struts and mainframes of the gears, and you have a set. You can even mix and match other's gears here.

Picture of the wingtips. Recycled. I got them when buying some stuff from a guy down in Ft. Lauderdale. I can strip them, use on the wings. I had a set of elevator's, from the same plane, can't find them, up in the attic in the dungeon area. Try to get the NG set up today, then concentrate on the tank floor, servo board rails, etc. There may be a few of the finished Phoenix 6 picture's in these write's, just to show where it is going.

Added this photo, I want to get the NG mounted. You can hold the NG up with tape, at the mounting flange's. Just reverse sticky masking tape, or 3M/mask tape, double sided, set where you will drill. I may have to move to left or right, but as long as it is on each side of the beam and clearance for drilling mounting holes. It should mount off center, as the NG strut is wound down on one side, vs. into the aluminum block. We want the wheel to sink at center front of belly pan at bulkhead.
Another way to mount these wings, is 4 nylon 1/4-20's and females on each corner.
Crank
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:20 AM
  #12  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Nose gear adjustment's made, ready to mount. The strut will not come right down the middle, the pan has been taped on to make sure after axle is mounted, or strut bent at 90, the wheel will set right at pan opening. The dowel location's from wing are measured, you should square up with the pan to bulkhead. I measured the finished P-6, got this close. I need to drill the firewall for the gear mounts, use 6:32 and BN's. To get to the firewall at this time, reason to drill for dowel's. Drill pilot hole's first, then move up a couple, you are drilling thru glass. Goal is to have correct for alignment on dowel's, and to run a 12" bit up to the firewall.
Drill over size, as the BN's need the extra clearance to sink without crunching the wood. Epoxy in, also you will have a little movement access when mounting the gear flange.
Went up to hardware, came back with the 1/4X20 brass insert's, and 6:32 BN's, but no prong's. These 632's are fitting in a hole the correct size, little bit of adhesive, sink 'em, will do fine. We can safety wire these, but not necessary. The brass insert's will fit into the wing bolt hold-down blocks. I thread the nylon bolt in with the insert upside down, and do not have the screwdriver slot exposed, screw in to drilled hole, you get all the meat. Let dry, I use epoxy, clean mount, then you can back the nylon bolt out. A little vaseline on the bolt will keep it from getting glued in, if you can't do a clean expoxy job.
Picture included showing the brass female's in another plane. At the wing, where the hole's accept the nylon bolt's, you can brass bush this with K&S tubing. With the glass cloth, this will be a "no crush" zone, if that means anything to anyone.

Back at it. Secured the BN's to the firewall, bushed the allen heads on the other side, pulled tight, to epoxy dry. Finish with SS 632's, attach NG. Picture's showing gear mounted with the mod's for bottom clearance, another picture taken from inside the fuselage, camera angle to the gear from bottom of fuse. You can see the scratche's on the gear flange, then some filing's. Re-position the mounting holes, no problem with securing. Before final mount, I will spray the gear frame with gold to match, will look stock production.
May be away from this for a few days, too much stuff to do around the ranch, have to get some practice in, put my Novice stuff to work, those southern guy's are tough. I know I am in the south, but Florida ain't the south, it is New York and New Jersey, drive like maniac's, sometime.

Crank
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Old 09-08-2009, 06:51 AM
  #13  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Next up is build the wing half's. If I cannot get decent 6" skin's from LHS, I will order from Lone Star Balsa. They had a fire, are back in business. We used to get matched 48" - 1/16", excellent quality, no reason to expect anything else. Get the wing halves joined, set in saddle, set up wing mounting bolts, this way, the stab can be inserted, and lined up level with the wing.

Klxmaster did a very good build on the foam wing's, building his Vertigo II. It is on RCU, his build. I used to just wrap the leading edge, using Dave Brown's Product, Southern Sorghum. Possible now to secure balsa leading edge, will explore all avenue's, make sure no warps, etc. on the wing, stab.
Stay tuned,

Crank
Old 11-21-2009, 09:24 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Back to it, been busy around the ranch, messing with the new YS110S, Richard and Crashlander straightened me out, all left is some fine tuning. Man, that YS sounds like a beast, and it is only a 110. If anyone knows when the new 115 is going to be available, would appreciate it.

Here are the wing panel's laid out. I have measured for the pan and wing bolt's, just took a look at Phoenix #1. I also have template's that was saved from past Phoenix 6 project's. I have the 6"X1/16" skin's, DB Southern Sorghum, sanding blocks, 3/8" stock, wood and ply for the retract mount's, epoxy, and marine resin, cloth. I lucked out, this epoxy SkyGlas kit came from a guy in Ft. Lauderdale, where the NIB (old stock), Midwest Mach I came from, he had a pair of Phoenix wing tip's, and pair of perfect strip aileron's, taken from a crashed bird some time back. They are perfect, I will adapt them to this wing.

I may be repeating past post's here, here's the plan. Lightly block sand the panels, vacuum, epoxy 3/8" stock to TE, 1/8" balsa to wing tip's, measure retract cut-out's, build gear assembly's, epoxy in, wrap wing with skin's, join with 1" under each tip for diehedral, join, set in cradle, glass center section with cloth, top and bottom, drill for wing bolts, to blocks in fuse, wing bolt holes will be brass bushed, forward center section ready for dowels, unless I go to 4 wing bolts here, fore and aft.
Get stab, elevator's, ready. Stab will be aligned after wing is finished for wing saddle. A NIB OS61 SF ringed will be installed.
Lot to do here, more later. Here is the finished product, going to change the color on this one, maybe the scheme.
Crank

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Old 11-21-2009, 09:28 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Hey Crankpin,
Looks good so far. I thought you weren't a big fan of OS engines... (gotta give you a little grief). You're gonna love the Focus!
Keep us posted!
Will B.
Old 11-21-2009, 10:30 PM
  #16  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Will, you are right. Never was, always Super Tigre's. I had a couple of OS 61AX's, or FX's ? , in the Intruder's when I started back into old pattern. A good friend of mine in Ohio, one of DB's buddy's, called me up, said that since I had been out of the hobby for many year's, I did not get to see the OS 61 SF's when they came along. He sent me one. Took one of the new OS 61's out of one plane, bolted in the SF, I was hooked. A powerhouse. I gave the new OS 61's away, didn't look back.

A YS is in the Focus, first 4 stroke and first YS. First plane of that type. The YS sounds like a beast. Maiden it after Thanksgiving, had to send the engine to their parts and service shop, just need final tune up. Waiting on the 115 now, it is replacing the 110. I know it need's some Levi's, get them on after it fly's.

Crank
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:27 AM
  #17  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Hey Vince. Sorry we couldn't connect this week. The life of a corporate aviator........

Anxious to hear a report on the Focus Sport.

Bob
Old 11-22-2009, 07:53 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

More wing. Picture's here, as follow's. Everyone has their own method, and I will use Klixmaster's set-up of the retract gear mount's. He is doing the thread on a Vertigo II. Later on that. Line on root, centering up LE and TE. The LE is the main subject, to mark the skin that will wrap, no formed LE stock here. I have centered the 1/16" X 6" sheet, a line horizontally down the middle of the root and tip. When the skin is set on the LE, wet, there are three reference line's. Root, tip and skin.
Thinking Out Loud
Doing this by yourself, the homework makes it easy. The method here, the skin's will be on a flat surface, usually use glass, inside up, the reference line horizontal down the middle, as shown, the LE of the core will be set directly on this line. This is the reason the root and tip have line's centered, fore and aft. All surface's will have the Sorghum correctly applied, then carefully wrap. I have seen DB use metal rod's, to secure skin's tight to the cores.
I may layer cut it all, butt glue, for complete sheets, do it all at one time. I am not using the bag and vac method, or any waxpaper. It will wrap on the LE, sheet down the whole core, one side, then the other.
This may be the old fashioned way, I will keep doing it. Using DB's Southern Sorghum. Tom Scott explained the vac and bag method when at the pylon race's at Ft. Lauderdale Saturday. Have to learn this method, get in the 21st century.

I stripped the tip's, they are used as previously posted, taped them together, eyed them up, had to use the rasp and sanding block to make them a matched pair. In previous post, I was going to make the 1/16" plywood template's, to sandwich in between the upper and lower halve's of the tips, then you carve and sand around that center ply piece, making and exact L&R. Saving time, I recycled the old tips. Aileron's, same thing.
The TE should take 3/8" square stock, none here, but have everything else. I used the lightest piece's of 1/2"X1/4" I had here, made 1/2" piece's for L & R, epoxied to core TE. These TE's will be trimmed to level with the core's. Next up, a 1/8" cap on the core tip.
The skin's will overlap all this, then on to finish. I will cut out the wheel well's, retract and strut area's, after skinning. May use the Robart barrel hinge's for a clean look, sectioned in.

I have some of the formed wheel well pair's, dunno if I will use them, feather-lite, cleans up the well, will fit under the skin's.
More later,
Crank
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:42 PM
  #19  
crankpin
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Back to it. A little time in shop today, doing some holiday running, company coming, may hinder some work here. Yesterday, I secured the 1/2" stock to the TE. This piece set's above the core, and you have to sand the lip off, to even. The skin will set right across this, top and bottom, aileron butt up against it.
As you can see, rested in cradle, 2" blue tape, sanding bar, you can sand it off to dimension's of the piece. I am sanding this off across the grain, letting the bar slide flat off the tape. After this, finish lengthwise, for exact match to TE. This will then be set in other cradle, finish other side. Look at the last picture, you can see this stock exactly matche's the core at area. Cap the tip's, sheet, get some retract work done. Picture #4, a straight edge is set across the core and TE stock, all even.
I had to get another piece of glass, can't find the old one, to have a flat piece for rolling the LE into the skin.
Say tuned,
Crank
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:35 PM
  #20  
crankpin
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Both panel's brought up to spec's, tip plate's on, sanded even at TE. Core's sanded, will finish sand, get ready to cover. I will mark the root, fore and aft for the center spar's. Some guy's use only one spar here, it works OK, I will put a rear one in also. Have to watch these area's, retract's going in, if it hit's, spar will have to be located adjacent to wheel wells. Dual wing servo's here, as in P-6 #1. Wire's will travel thru the same tunnel as the retract pressure tubes. The 1/16" sheet's will cover the rear stock at the TE. I already checked out the finished aileron's to the wing, perfect fit, and they are already glassed, finished white.
Shop is a mess right now, and finished old time pattern planes about, plus they are spilling over into the house. Wife is cool on this subject. There is a problem with the finished tip's, may have to do the plywood template sandwich new carved tips after all. If you have not seen this done before, nice way to do wingtip's, they come out a perfect match, L&R. Picture's 1 & 2 are the tip's.

Next up, skin 'em, maybe after holiday, company leaves. I said in last post, I had to get a piece of glass, best for cutting MK and splicing skin's, rolling LE to surface. I was ready to go to the glass shop, they can cut and edge a piece any size you need, 1/4" is good. The house behind me, threw out a very nice dining room hutch cabinet, I drove past, and the top shelf had a 1/4"X15"X38" finished piece of glass. It's in my shop, N/C.
Crank
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:16 PM
  #21  
hrrcflyer
 
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Hey Vince,

Great job on the fuse and wings so far. Keep up the good work. I'm learning as I read along.

Old 11-24-2009, 06:40 PM
  #22  
dhal22
 
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2


ORIGINAL: hrrcflyer

Hey Vince,

Great job on the fuse and wings so far. Keep up the good work. I'm learning as I read along.

i agree. vince, your work is as good as anyone's here.
Old 11-25-2009, 12:01 AM
  #23  
KLXMASTER14
 
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Good stuff Vince. You are a brave man sanding up against those cores. You are going about it the right way.
-Robert
Old 11-25-2009, 11:06 AM
  #24  
doxilia
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Echo Robert's comments.

I've always been leery of sanding against foam when attaching TE prior to sheeting. Hence, I've always done it afterward. The technique Vince is using though is presumably more accurate in keeping the core TE straight.

David.
Old 11-25-2009, 12:46 PM
  #25  
AndyKunz
 
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Default RE: Phoenix 6 - Start # 2

Wet sanding foam doesn't make the bead rip up nearly as bad as dry.

Andy

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